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Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe

Henry David said:
Precisely! If the war on terror is invoked, the Unpatriot Act nullifies the Fourth Amendment.

Those of us objecting to The Act have been pointing this out for 11 years now.
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"shuffles the usual attacks by GOP talking points"

Why do you hate America? You are unpatriotic! You sympathies with terrorists! You love Muslims/gays/Mexicans.. no wait that last one is for another debate :)

But seriously... finally a person saying they are a Libertarian actually living up to one of the basic principles of democracy.. /clap.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Let me play devil's advocate here. I think the security leak the justice department was concerned about was when the AP reported that we had foiled a planned terrorist attack originating from Yemen. The attack would have been a improved version of the underwear bomber. The justice department may be concerned that the AP's report, which tried carefully to keep the classified info under wraps, gave enough info in its story that the terrorists may realize there is a spy in their midst.
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Sorry but that is nothing but an excuse.. the same old excuse every right/left wing government has used in every abuse of power case ever. While we dont know all the information yet, if the DOJ obtained this information without a warrant, then it is wrong.. regardless of who is in office. If we dont live by the basic rules of law, then the enemy has won.. pure and simple. If we start being afraid of our own shadows and bending/breaking the basic principles of our democracy (read Patriot Act and Gitmo) then we are no better than the very people we are fighting.
 
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PeteEU said:
"shuffles the usual attacks by GOP talking points"

Why do you hate America? You are unpatriotic! You sympathies with terrorists! You love Muslims/gays/Mexicans.. no wait that last one is for another debate :)

But seriously... finally a person saying they are a Libertarian actually living up to one of the basic principles of democracy.. /clap.
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But you disagree with this basic principle, right?
 
jonny5 said:
But you disagree with this basic principle, right?
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What basic principle? Following the rule and principles of law and our democracies? Of course not. I disagree with people who break the prinicples for political gain ... like with GITMO, Patriot Act and yes the IRS scandal (up to a point since they did not actually break the law or principles) and if proven .. this AP story.

But what I hate the most are the hypocrites on the right who are now sniffing blood but let Bush get away with much worse...
 
PeteEU said:
What basic principle? Following the rule and principles of law and our democracies? Of course not. I disagree with people who break the prinicples for political gain ... like with GITMO, Patriot Act and yes the IRS scandal (up to a point since they did not actually break the law or principles) and if proven .. this AP story.

But what I hate the most are the hypocrites on the right who are now sniffing blood but let Bush get away with much worse...
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Im just confused because your posting history indicates to me that you dont support basic rule of law except when the issue is one you like. For example support for any number of social programs which are not in the constitution.
 
PeteEU said:
Sorry but that is nothing but an excuse.. the same old excuse every right/left wing government has used in every abuse of power case ever. While we dont know all the information yet, if the DOJ obtained this information without a warrant, then it is wrong.. regardless of who is in office. If we dont live by the basic rules of law, then the enemy has won.. pure and simple. If we start being afraid of our own shadows and bending/breaking the basic principles of our democracy (read Patriot Act and Gitmo) then we are no better than the very people we are fighting.
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I agree there should be a honest investigation, but I fear we will only get another partisan circus.
 
stonewall50 said:
That is obviously Obama...but do you understand the issue with Martial law to any Democrat? ALL politicians would lose their power. Democrats wouldn't like that except those in the Obama administration. You could count on martial law being an idiotic idea that would never occur short of some form of horrific natural disaster. The military isn't exactly "PRO left wing" either.
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It wouldn't matter Democrats are so far onto the tank they are so drunk on his KoolAid they wouldn't give a dam as long it benefits Obama, Democrats would not care who or what rights Obama violates even if it is them he violates as long as it benefit Obama and his agenda

Obama can get caught stealing money from a churches collection plate. there could be a tape and a dozen witnesses and democrats would say that those witnesses are not telling the truth they are all republicans and the tape was edited. if that didn't work they would blame the usher for handing him the collection plate
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I agree there should be a honest investigation, but I fear we will only get another partisan circus.
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Easy solution to that would be for Democrats to step up and start the investigation. It becomes a partisan circus because only one party becomes interested in finding out the truth.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I agree there should be a honest investigation, but I fear we will only get another partisan circus.
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Any investigation that is unfavorable to Obama would be labeled as a partisan circus
 
jonny5 said:
Easy solution to that would be for Democrats to step up and start the investigation. It becomes a partisan circus because only one party becomes interested in finding out the truth.
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LoL you cant be for real
asking democrats to investigate anything that involves Obama or his administration would be the same as allowing students to grade their own school work
 
trfjr said:
LoL you cant be for real
asking democrats to investigate anything that involves Obama or his administration would be the same as allowing students to grade their own school work
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Obama is drunk with power. This is Chicago-style politics at its ugliest.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I agree there should be a honest investigation, but I fear we will only get another partisan circus.
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Of course that is how US politics works as it keeps the system going and at its status quo.
 
jonny5 said:
Im just confused because your posting history indicates to me that you dont support basic rule of law except when the issue is one you like.
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Oh?

For example support for any number of social programs which are not in the constitution.
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Considering the US constitution is pretty pathetic on some points, and is so open to interpretation.. then /shrug. Slavery is also allowed in the Constitution.. want to bring that back? How about allowing women to vote?
 
PeteEU said:
What basic principle? Following the rule and principles of law and our democracies? Of course not. I disagree with people who break the prinicples for political gain ... like with GITMO, Patriot Act and yes the IRS scandal (up to a point since they did not actually break the law or principles) and if proven .. this AP story.

But what I hate the most are the hypocrites on the right who are now sniffing blood but let Bush get away with much worse...
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What it shows is that both parties are corrupt. Indeed, our 2 party system is intellectually and morally bankrupt.

As to the AP scandal now developing, it demonstrates the complicity of the telecom guys in opening their files to the government without objection. Regards the MSM, there is some measure of divine retribution, almost comical, as those government lapdogs are now being surveilled as is the ordinary citizen.
 
PeteEU said:
Oh?



Considering the US constitution is pretty pathetic on some points, and is so open to interpretation.. then /shrug. Slavery is also allowed in the Constitution.. want to bring that back? How about allowing women to vote?
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That just proves my point. We passed laws to protect those rights. Where is the constitutional amendment authorizing the govt to pay for healthcare? Just look at your first reponse to this thread

Pretty much the same crap that went on under Bush... difference is that was your guy.
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Wheres your vigorous defense of democracy? You applaud people for defending democracy when democracy supports your ideology.
 
rocket88 said:
I thought you guys hated the AP. Overly "liberal" and what not.
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Limbaugh referred to AP today as the Obama Admin's "stenographers." I guess we'll all see how long the AP stays mad and whether they're finally "getting it."
 
nota bene said:
Limbaugh referred to AP today as the Obama Admin's "stenographers." I guess we'll all see how long the AP stays mad and whether they're finally "getting it."
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Or we'll see how long before they become the new cause celebre.
 
rocket88 said:
Or we'll see how long before they become the new cause celebre.
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I hope you're not trying to trivialize this. Never even mind the biting of the hand feeding them irony of this, every self-respecting journo and citizen should be outraged simply on GP.
 
nota bene said:
I hope you're not trying to trivialize this. Never even mind the biting of the hand feeding them irony of this, every self-respecting journo and citizen should be outraged simply on GP.
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I'm not trivializing anything. I just think that it won't be long before the Limbaugh's of the world are singing the praises of the AP. That's when it will become trivialized.
 
jwzg said:
Meanwhile, the children argue over the empty boxes at Christmas time while thieves make out the front door with the contents.:doh
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What makes me laugh is no one was worried about the thieves in the house to begin with except for the kids trying to tell the adults :roll: :lol:
 
rocket88 said:
I'm not trivializing anything. I just think that it won't be long before the Limbaugh's of the world are singing the praises of the AP. That's when it will become trivialized.
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It really doesn't matter if anyone sings their praises. This has to do with the actions of our government, not the opinions of American citizens.
 
Oftencold said:
Let's see if the mainstream Press keeps performing intimate acts for their beloved Obama now the the shoe is on the other hand!
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If the MSM is always on Obama's side than why would the Press hurt him? :roll:

"A house divided against itself cannot stand,"
 
apdst said:
I bet the AP won't be carrying water for The Messiah, anymore. ;)
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This is what I am hoping to see, again strictly on GP, but color me skeptical for now.
 
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