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Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe

Sheik Yerbuti said:
At any rate, I find it wholly ironic that the right now complains about the Patriot Act after all the years they championed it. What changed?
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The only complaints concerning the Patriot Act I'm hearing is how Liberals still fail to understand it.

Sheik Yerbuti said:
I wasn't aware that the government was obliged to share their evidence, under the Patriot Act, with you?
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They're not, which is why we wouldn't be talking about this if this were an investigation concerning terrorism under the Patriot Act. The DOJ wouldn't have sent the AP a letter saying "Guess what? We subpoenaed your phone records!"
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
I believe this was different in that it was done in secrecy, but in accordance with the Patriot Act.
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Not really sure there, as the DOJ letter to the AP specifically references that they got a subpoena in accordance with their strict rules. That puts it more in line with the existing DOJ powers, of which apparently have never been used, than the Patriot Act.
 
I'm curious - does anyone know - during the whole congressional investigation into who leaked Valerie Plame's identity/CIA status to the media, did the Bush administration's Justice Department subpoena the phone records of the New York Times and other news agencies? It seems to be a similar circumstance and would clear up for me the suggestion that "Republican admininstrations do the same thing" and the right is being hypocritical because it's Obama.
 
Samhain said:
Not really sure there, as the DOJ letter to the AP specifically references that they got a subpoena in accordance with their strict rules. That puts it more in line with the existing DOJ powers, of which apparently have never been used, than the Patriot Act.
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Yes, although it's not that the powers haven't been used, it's that they haven't been used on this scale - it's supposed to be a targeted, focused search. This was two months of phone records involving up to 100 or more journalists.
 
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CanadaJohn said:
I'm curious - does anyone know - during the whole congressional investigation into who leaked Valerie Plame's identity/CIA status to the media, did the Bush administration's Justice Department subpoena the phone records of the New York Times and other news agencies? It seems to be a similar circumstance and would clear up for me the suggestion that "Republican admininstrations do the same thing" and the right is being hypocritical because it's Obama.
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The Bush admin was notoriously lax concerning leaks of classified information. The Obama admin had been doing a much better job following up on this sort of thing (EDIT: See quote below) - but I think most would agree that this goes a bit too far.

The Obama administration has aggressively investigated disclosures of classified information to the media and has brought six cases against people suspected of providing classified information, more than under all previous presidents combined.
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(From the AP story)
 
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CanadaJohn said:
I'm curious - does anyone know - during the whole congressional investigation into who leaked Valerie Plame's identity/CIA status to the media, did the Bush administration's Justice Department subpoena the phone records of the New York Times and other news agencies? It seems to be a similar circumstance and would clear up for me the suggestion that "Republican admininstrations do the same thing" and the right is being hypocritical because it's Obama.
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John, I haven't been able to find one, which doesn't mean all that much. They could have. I did, however, find that Holder issued one to the Times.
 
Erod said:
Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe


Alright, this getting downright scary. The IRS, the Feds, the cover-up of Benghazi......what in the hell is going on?
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The Justice Dept is investigating security leaks, Think Progress has the story:

Why The Department Of Justice Is Going After The Associated Press' Records | ThinkProgress

Last year, the Associated Press reported that an Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) plothad been foiled, thanks to a timely intervention on the part of the United States. The plan, according to the AP’s March 2012 story, involved an upgrade of the “underwear bomb” used in the failed Christmas Day 2009 bomb plot that was meant to take down a passenger airplane in Detroit, MI.
Why that drew the attention of the Justice Department, however, is that the CIA was the one who foiled the plot, which the AP report made clear:

The FBI is examining the latest bomb to see whether it could have passed through airport security and brought down an airplane, officials said. They said the device did not contain metal, meaning it probably could have passed through an airport metal detector. But it was not clear whether new body scanners used in many airports would have detected it.

The would-be suicide bomber, based in Yemen, had not yet picked a target or bought a plane ticket when the CIA stepped in and seized the bomb, officials said. It’s not immediately clear what happened to the alleged bomber.


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AP learned of the plot a week before publishing, but “agreed to White House and CIA requests not to publish it immediately” due to national security concerns. But, by reporting the CIA’s involvement in foiling the plot, they put AQAP on notice that the CIA had a window into their activities. The AP’s reporting also led to other stories involving an operative in place within AQAP, and details of the operations he was involved in. That operative, it was feared, would be exposed and targeted by AQAP as retribution for siding with the United States.
​
 
PeteEU said:
No I am not..it is fake outrage by most on the right.... that is what I am saying.
.
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I doubt it is fake outrage. It is a phenomenon that is NOT unique to any particular side of the political spectrum: hypocrisy.

isten either you are totally against targeting journalists regardless of nationality and against warrantless wiretapping or you are for it.. regardless who is in power.
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Again hypocrisy is a funny thing. I am against it, but it wasn't until I got a collegiate education and started getting interested in the law and political discussion that I myself understood the ramifications of the Patriot Act. I was in 7th Grade when they signed the Patriot Act into law. Hardly a "politically knowledgeable" Republican at that time. I know better now. I know that more government control is worse.

And in this case, many who are going after Obama and his administration for this and other stuff, were defending the Bush administration for similar or worse issues of abuse of power and to this day (even in this thread) deny that the Bush administration did not do similar illegalities, when it is very clear that they did.
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I wasn't. I couldn't vote. I was also uneducated in the world of politics. Looking back now though...I will say that Bush was in a state of War...and we as a nation were switching from a world of conventional warfare, cold war build up/espionage, and severely behind in our understanding of Islamic terrorism and really terrorism in general. It isn't an excuse...but an explanation. What is the Obama Administration's explanation for such acts?

Now, like I said... if someone in the Obama administration did this to the AP journalists and did it without a legal warrant, then heads should roll. But so far, all I have seen is more accusations by the same idiots running the "Bengahzi scandal" witch hunt, and their credibility is only slight above Hamas and Hizbollah.
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As far as I can tell so far there is no evidence of a warrant. That is a HUGE violation of the first. Unacceptable. At least the Bush Administration changed the law so they didn't need warrants. Not kosher...but there is a difference here.
 
jonny5 said:
Its like their just checking off violating of the Bill of Rights.

violate freedom of speech by targeting conservative groups for regulation - check
violate freedom of religion by forcing religious institutions to pay for birth control - check
violate freedom of the press by investigating AP phone records - check
violate right to bear arms by trying to pass gun control - check

Will they killing americans without due process next? Oh wait...
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They will not force me to suffer a quartered soldier in my home! They can have all the other amendments but this one is where I draw my line in the sand!
 
sawyerloggingon said:
This obama white house seems to act a little more fascist each and every day, whats next martial law?
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Not at all. That takes power out of Bureaucratic hands. That is the opposite of what the Obama administration wants.
 
stonewall50 said:
Not at all. That takes power out of Bureaucratic hands. That is the opposite of what the Obama administration wants.
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wrong
martial law gives all the power to Obama. martial law gives the military the authority to achieve and maintain law and order. who is the commander and chief who is in charge of the military?
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
A better question is why do you do things which annoy you? If it annoys you -- don't read my posts. I assure you, I won't be upset.
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Im interested in what you say, just not the color you say it in. The question still remains? What purpose is there in typing in blue?
 
Lachean said:
They will not force me to suffer a quartered soldier in my home! They can have all the other amendments but this one is where I draw my line in the sand!
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Heh, that one would be hard to violate.
 
Fisher said:
Boo hoo the press is subject to the same intrusions as everybody else because they have decided that they would rather talk about a Kardashian divorce to sell soap to finance their bloated paychecks than actually earn their claim to be the 4th pillar of democracy.
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You certainly have a point there. Judging from the many many failures of the Fourth Estate during the last several decades in examining government, this does appear to be some form of karma.

That said, AP might be the exception to the rule regarding the presstitute media. I'm not certain of that, but it's possible.

In any event, this clearly demonstrates how the rule of law is dead-in-the-water in this country. The government does as it pleases, and the law be damned.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Yeah, kinda like when rightwing WorldNetDaily exposed Bush for using tax audits for political purposes. It's just like that, right?
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B-B-but Booooosh!
 
Taylor said:
No, the Patriot Act does not permit the government to search whatever business records it chooses.
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Of course it does. Slap a big "terror" on the case and they can do anything.
 
Now we know part of the reason AP wasn't invited to the background meeting. I have no doubt that any information gathered which isn't pertinent to the Justice dept. investigation will be destroyed. Right? I mean, the information from that number of reporters would be voluminous. Just like the information the feds gathered for universal background checks was going to be destroyed - that kind of thing.
 
PeteEU said:
Of course it does. Slap a big "terror" on the case and they can do anything.
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Precisely! If the war on terror is invoked, the Unpatriot Act nullifies the Fourth Amendment.

Those of us objecting to The Act have been pointing this out for 11 years now.
 
Let me play devil's advocate here. I think the security leak the justice department was concerned about was when the AP reported that we had foiled a planned terrorist attack originating from Yemen. The attack would have been a improved version of the underwear bomber. The justice department may be concerned that the AP's report, which tried carefully to keep the classified info under wraps, gave enough info in its story that the terrorists may realize there is a spy in their midst.
 
trfjr said:
wrong
martial law gives all the power to Obama. martial law gives the military the authority to achieve and maintain law and order. who is the commander and chief who is in charge of the military?
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That is obviously Obama...but do you understand the issue with Martial law to any Democrat? ALL politicians would lose their power. Democrats wouldn't like that except those in the Obama administration. You could count on martial law being an idiotic idea that would never occur short of some form of horrific natural disaster. The military isn't exactly "PRO left wing" either.
 
rocket88 said:
I don't want to make it black and white. That's a hallmark of how the right sees things. Everything they don't like is "Liberal." Anti-semitism, racism, Nazism - must be libbos.

If, as the right often claims, the scary liberal media is run by the administration, why would they want to do that to their lapdogs?
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When did you become a spokesman for "the right"?

If you genuinely want to know a how a person on the right thing sees things, ask one.
 
Interesting. Yesterday right after I seen this I went to yahoo news and seen a link right on the main page news feed that said "YOUR NEWS FOR TUESDAY"

For some reason I copied it:

Your daily look at late-breaking news, upcoming events and the stories that will be talked about Tuesday:
1. WHY THE WHITE HOUSE IS ON THE DEFENSIVE
Simultaneous investigations into the IRS targeting conservative political groups and last year's attacks in Libya are threatening to overtake Obama's second-term agenda.
2. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OBTAINS AP PHONE RECORDS
"There can be no possible justification for such an overbroad collection of the telephone communications," CEO Gary Pruitt says.
3. ACCUSATIONS IN HONDURAS OF FEDERAL DEATH SQUADS
The AP has determined that at least five times, street gang members were killed or went missing just after run-ins with the U.S.-supported national police.
4. JURY CONVICTS PHILADELPHIA ABORTION DOCTOR
Dr. Kermit Gosnell could face the death penalty; three babies were killed after they were born alive.
5. WHAT'S FEEDING FEARS OF SECTARIAN VIOLENCE IN IRAQ
There's been a sharp rise in attacks on Sunni holy sites.
6. MINNESOTA JOINS RANKS OF STATES ALLOWING GAY MARRIAGE
"We're excited to become equal citizens under the law," says Maria Bevacqua, who celebrated at the state Capitol with her partner, Jessica Flatequal.
7. GRASSHOPPER: IT'S WHAT'S FOR DINNER
The U.N. promotes edible insects as low-fat, high-protein foods for people, pets and livestock.
8. CELESTIAL SINGER
Canadian astronaut Chris Hadfield performs his own version of David Bowie's "Space Oddity" as he prepares to leave the International Space Station.
9. CANNES FESTIVAL KICKS OFF
"Every time I go to Cannes, it feels like I'm entering the helicopter scene in 'La Dolce Vita,'" says Leonardo DiCaprio. "It's an insane experience."
10. WHO'S BACK IN COURT
O.J. Simpson asks for a new trial in the armed robbery-kidnapping case that sent him to prison in 2008 for up to 33 years.
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Today I cant find any of these stories on yahoo news. Conspiracy or something?

Oh wait I guess if you scroll all the way to the very bottom of the news feed you can see a "Flood of Scandals Engulfs Obama" close to the bottom. This only struck me as odd cuz its the first time I ever seen a "Your news for tomorrow" ever.
 
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RabidAlpaca said:
Move along, nothing to see here. I'm sure they were just looking for terrorists.
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All Americans are terror suspects, particularly those in the media. :roll:
 
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