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Gates: Some Benghazi critics have "cartoonish" view of military capability

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What if...? said:
So in Afghanistan, where we have significant forces in place, hence the quick backup.

Not the same thing.

And it was a "success".
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Yes, it was a success with significant loss of life. We'll never know if Benghazi could have been a success we just know there was loss of life without hope or an attempt of rescue.
 
Bronson said:
2 specialists were able to save dozens of Americans in harm's way

The Obama Administration couldn't provide them backup within 8 hours

Nothing more needs to be said
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backup to do what? repel 150 attackers armed with ak-47s, gun trucks, and mortars?
 
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BMCM said:
I wasn't there and the investigation is still ongoing so I have no idea who did or did not do what. I answered your question so man up and answer mine:

So why wouldn't you want our troops to have the same 12 hours to plan and train?[/b
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I didn't say I wouldn't want them to have 12 hours to plan and train. The fact is, our guys DIDN'T have 12 hours to plan and train and that's no excuse to to at least TRY.

If you didn't think it was germane to the thread then why did you bring it up? What are your sources on Banteen and Reno?
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I didn't bring it up, someone else did. I was only pointing out the error in using Little Bighorn as an example.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Not true. I remember a short time after the Seals went in an got bin Laden the Seals were sent into northern Afghanistan on a rush rescue to try to assist/save some American troops which were trapped and under attack. During that foray, a helicopter crashed and several Seals and other service members were killed but the troops were saved in the process. I don't recall any specific negative reaction to that decision to send in a rescue force that didn't have time for planning and their actions saved lives even though some of the rescuers were lost. Rather than people "squawking" about it, those Seals were honored and the incident basically forgotten and never mentioned again while Obama continued to talk up the more successful bin Laden raid.

There is far more honor in trying to save comrades and failing than in never even trying.
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Apples to oranges. In Afghanistan the troops, helos and such were already there and have been there over 10 years.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
backup to do what? repel 150 attackers armed with ak-47s, gun trucks, and mortars?
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To defend and rescue Americans in harm's way

Your posts are comical and embarrassing. Just stop.
 
pbrauer said:
The 12 edits revealed a turf war between the CIA and State. The video was the attempt to misdirect the terrorists.
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Soooooo... you do realize that the new info we have received verifies that the CIA knew who carried out the attack because the attackers made a public announcement on Facebook and Twitter, right? What possible benefit is it to hide this information from the public when the bad guys already made the information public?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
backup to do what? repel 150 attackers armed with ak-47s, gun trucks, and mortars?
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A few well placed Hellfire missiles would probably would have dispersed the attackers fairly rapidly. It is somewhat clear that those fighting at the annex expected some sort of response, otherwise one of them would not have divulged his own location by "lighting up" the attackers...
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
backup to do what? repel 150 attackers armed with ak-47s, gun trucks, and mortars?
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A whole 150 attackers? :lamo

That's a company(+) size element. Are you aware that a SEAL team can field as much firepower as a company of light infantry? Not to mention, a SEAL team would have brought a level of training, discipline, experience, orginization and motivation to the fight that the attackers couldn't even come close to mathing up to.

All the while, the slicks that inserted the SEAL team, would have probably been escorted by gunships, that would be raining fire and steel down on everything outside the peremiter.
 
BMCM said:
Apples to oranges. In Afghanistan the troops, helos and such were already there and have been there over 10 years.
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Maybe so, but there were individuals on the ground in Libya who were in the air on the way to Benghazi and they were told to turn around. It's moot, since we'll never know, but I'll bet there are many people in the service of your country who are damn angry you didn't even try. That's not what Americans do.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Maybe so, but there were individuals on the ground in Libya who were in the air on the way to Benghazi and they were told to turn around. It's moot, since we'll never know, but I'll bet there are many people in the service of your country who are damn angry you didn't even try. That's not what Americans do.
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A commercial flight from London to Tripoli lasts about 3 1/2 hours. We had assets closer, and I'm sure our fighters in Italy fly a bit faster than commercial airliners. Good afternoon jcj...
 
apdst said:
I didn't say I wouldn't want them to have 12 hours to plan and train. The fact is, our guys DIDN'T have 12 hours to plan and train and that's no excuse to to at least TRY.



I didn't bring it up, someone else did. I was only pointing out the error in using Little Bighorn as an example.
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So how many troops would you have sent in? How would you have gotten them there? How would you have armed them?

We'll let the Custer thing go, you obviously don't know what happened.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
A few well placed Hellfire missiles would probably would have dispersed the attackers fairly rapidly. It is somewhat clear that those fighting at the annex expected some sort of response, otherwise one of them would not have divulged his own location by "lighting up" the attackers...
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Absolutely, goddamned right!!!

The fact that he actually laser painted a target means that he was TOLD that air-support was already inbound.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
A commercial flight from London to Tripoli lasts about 3 1/2 hours. We had assets closer, and I'm sure our fighters in Italy fly a bit faster than commercial airliners. Good afternoon jcj...
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Good afternoon V1.1 - I find it remarkable the lengths to which people here will go to "rescue" Obama and Clinton but wouldn't lift a finger to save American assets on the ground in a hostile environment.
 
apdst said:
A whole 150 attackers? :lamo

That's a company(+) size element. Are you aware that a SEAL team can field as much firepower as a company of light infantry? Not to mention, a SEAL team would have brought a level of training, discipline, experience, orginization and motivation to the fight that the attackers couldn't even come close to mathing up to.

All the while, the slicks that inserted the SEAL team, would have probably been escorted by gunships, that would be raining fire and steel down on everything outside the peremiter.
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How many innocent men,women and children killed by this rain of bullets would be an acceptable number?
 
BMCM said:
How many innocent men,women and children killed by this rain of bullets would be an acceptable number?
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Who gives a **** when US citizens are under attack. There is collateral damage in any defensive action...
 
Bronson said:
To defend and rescue Americans in harm's way

Your posts are comical and embarrassing. Just stop.
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one of those killed was part of the backup. you know, the backup that payed a libyan plane to fly them to benghazi.

there was nothing that could scramble imediatly to save them. no jets, no apaches.

they only reinforcements close enough were the 6 man team, and they were needed to protect the embassy in Tripoli, and i highly doubt their handguns would have done any good against mortar shells.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
one of those killed was part of the backup. you know, the backup that payed a libyan plane to fly them to benghazi.

there was nothing that could scramble imediatly to save them. no jets, no apaches.

they only reinforcements close enough were the 6 man team, and they were needed to protect the embassy in Tripoli, and i highly doubt their handguns would have done any good against mortar shells.
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Bull****! The Sixth Fleet is based in the Med. There were fighters available, but they were not scrambled...
 
AlabamaPaul said:
A commercial flight from London to Tripoli lasts about 3 1/2 hours. We had assets closer, and I'm sure our fighters in Italy fly a bit faster than commercial airliners. Good afternoon jcj...
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What good do you think a fighter jet would have done? The best they could do is make a low pass with their 20mm guns and maybe fire off a couple of missiles.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
one of those killed was part of the backup. you know, the backup that payed a libyan plane to fly them to benghazi.

there was nothing that could scramble imediatly to save them. no jets, no apaches.

they only reinforcements close enough were the 6 man team, and they were needed to protect the embassy in Tripoli, and i highly doubt their handguns would have done any good against mortar shells.
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Oh, one more thing, all backup was carried out against orders to stand down. These individuals were willing to risk not only their careers, but their lives, for their fellow countrymen. It's shameful that others in government were not...
 
apdst said:
A whole 150 attackers? :lamo

That's a company(+) size element. Are you aware that a SEAL team can field as much firepower as a company of light infantry? Not to mention, a SEAL team would have brought a level of training, discipline, experience, orginization and motivation to the fight that the attackers couldn't even come close to mathing up to.

All the while, the slicks that inserted the SEAL team, would have probably been escorted by gunships, that would be raining fire and steel down on everything outside the peremiter.
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the only seals were was to provide security for the embassy, and they did not have gunships.

the attackers at the embassiy were well armed: ak-47s, RPGs, desial canisters, anti-aircraft guns and artillary mounted on trucks, mortars.
 
BMCM said:
What good do you think a fighter jet would have done? The best they could do is make a low pass with their 20mm guns and maybe fire off a couple of missiles.
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You would probably be surprised what fighters can do...
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Who gives a **** when US citizens are under attack. There is collateral damage in any defensive action...
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Go back and read some of the Drone threads and see how many people complained about the collateral damage they caused. A fighter with their 20mm cannons and rockets would have caused a lot more collateral damage then the drones did, then you would be here complaining about that.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Bull****! The Sixth Fleet is based in the Med. There were fighters available, but they were not scrambled...
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because no oil tanker aircraft were available. what good would fighter aircraft have done if they had crashed into the sea for lack of fuel after going full after burner.

oh and it takes time to arm, fuel, taxi, launch and organize fighters into a organized strike.
 
BMCM said:
Go back and read some of the Drone threads and see how many people complained about the collateral damage they caused. A fighter with their 20mm cannons and rockets would have caused a lot more collateral damage then the drones did, then you would be here complaining about that.
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We're not discussing other threads. We're here discussing this situation in which US citizens were under attack. Try to stay on topic...
 
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