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Republicans raising money off Benghazi effort

Oh, I agree reading a lot of these posts. The posters never realizes. But I too am guilty of being a hypocrite at times, I think all of us are and when we are, we really do not realize it. It is always easier to see where the hypocrisy come forth looking from the outside than the inside. Being a backer of Perot and I still claim the Reform Party membership, he taught me to take a few steps back, get rid of those dark tinted red or blue colored glasses, put in ear plugs so you do not listen to their rhetoric, talking points and slogans, then just watch how they govern. There really isn't that much of a difference, they trim around the edges and that is about all, but to listen to the two major parties you would think they are polar opposites.

I agree, and in some ways it seems that previously similar positions have been changed for the express of being as oppositional as possible.

Thinking about one of the biggest debates of the last few years, I am confident that Obama and the Dems really believe they would have significant republican support for the Affordable Care Act (not trying to start a HC debate) since they pulled the plan directly from the Heritage Foundation. I think they were genuinely surprised there was zero support and engagement for what was previously acknowledge as the best capitalist version of universal healthcare. And sadly, if the plan had not had to have been cobbled together with only Dem votes (and their corresponding special interests) the final bill may have been pretty good.

We have heard Republicans say out loud that they decided to be against things just because Obama was for them.

I know these things can go both ways, but I think that one side is more blatantly oppositional than the other.

Having been an R for 20 years and an I and D for 10, I feel like I get the ideologies of all of them, and I was actually turned away from the R's because I not participate in the hypocrisy of the Clinton witch hunt, even tough I voted against him twice.

I have come to believe that people interested In Finding common ground have mostly given up.
 
Yeah the democrats aren't raising a dime off a classroom of dead 6 year olds :roll:
Oh yeah and the NRA hasn't made a handful off of it too.
 
I agree, and in some ways it seems that previously similar positions have been changed for the express of being as oppositional as possible.

Thinking about one of the biggest debates of the last few years, I am confident that Obama and the Dems really believe they would have significant republican support for the Affordable Care Act (not trying to start a HC debate) since they pulled the plan directly from the Heritage Foundation. I think they were genuinely surprised there was zero support and engagement for what was previously acknowledge as the best capitalist version of universal healthcare. And sadly, if the plan had not had to have been cobbled together with only Dem votes (and their corresponding special interests) the final bill may have been pretty good.

We have heard Republicans say out loud that they decided to be against things just because Obama was for them.

I know these things can go both ways, but I think that one side is more blatantly oppositional than the other.

Having been an R for 20 years and an I and D for 10, I feel like I get the ideologies of all of them, and I was actually turned away from the R's because I not participate in the hypocrisy of the Clinton witch hunt, even tough I voted against him twice.

I have come to believe that people interested In Finding common ground have mostly given up.


Yes, it does seem if one party if for something the other is automatically against it even if they were for it before. I don’t really know much about the ACA, but I watched it get passed on C-Span and the way the Democrats had to bribe and threaten members of their own party to vote for it, that turned me off. Not the ACA it self, but the Democrats in congress. Yep, the Republicans do a lot of being against something just because Obama is for something. I think they use the filibuster way too much, but on the other hand Senator Reid tabling almost every bill sent to the senate from the house probably has something to do with that. This could be one of those which came first, the chicken or the egg routine as to who started this.

I actually thought back in December of 2010 that we may have something good going. Obama agreeing to extend the tax cuts, the Republicans passing the START treaty and a couple of other things I can’t remember right now. Then came January and everything went south.

I have never belong to either party, pretty much have been a best candidate voter. Being from Georgia, I tended to vote D locally and R nationally for a long time. Then Perot came along and I have voted third party in 5 out of the last 6 presidential elections. Yeah, the witch hunt on Clinton was kind of ridicules. Yeah, I know he lied to congress, so censure him, that might have passed both chambers. But you have to give Clinton credit, he continued to work with congress and they achieved as close to a balanced budget as you’re probably going to get.

As for finding common ground, in the senate I think you have to get rid of Reid and McConnell both and replace them with leaders interested in solving problems and looking out for America and her future instead of only looking for what is good for your political party. I might recommend Alexander on the Republican side, maybe a Pryor or a Udall on the Democratic side.

The house, it does seem at times Boehner would be willing to work with the president, then it seems members of his own party tend to rebel at that thought. So it is my opinon even if Boehner is willing, he won’t work with the president if he wants to remain speaker and so we are back to gridlock.
 
The problem with the "they couldn't have helped anyway" excuse is that no one knew that at the time the stand down order was issued. Unless, of course, you're claiming the US government has psychic abilities which is a whole other topic (in Off Topic Discussions). :)

They also didn't know at the time how long the attack would continue. It could have gone on for another 24 hours and help would not have been sent.
 
There are a multitude of reasons to stand down. Number one is that sending more soldiers into a fight when the enemy is an unknown as far as strength could leave more dead Americans. In short, helicopters get shot down easily. In this case though it is likely that the Ambassador was already dead.

Hillary and Barry decided that the Ambassador was already dead so it was time to call it a night? That's not as great an excuse as you might hope it to be.
 
It is just like gerrymandering. When the Republican's gerrymandered Texas after the 2010 census, the Democrats cried high crimes and misdemeanors and accused the Republicans of jury rigging elections. Then the democrats happily gerrymandered Illinois it was the republicans turn to cry high crimes and misdemeanors and jury rigging elections. As long as you have people that believe it is more important to be Republican or Democrat than an American, these things will continue to go on and America as a country will continue to suffer.

At least Republicans are proud of being an American. Democrats can't make such a claim.
 
Really? Because you just said the crime is:

So it sounds as if you are talking about the same thing I am, not giving those who committed the crime in Libya notification that they are under suspicion......which was what the SoS office used as a reason for not wanting the WH to say it was "terrorism" by any particular group.

Rather clever of Barry Obama to tells lies in order that Islamic terrorists not realize that they might be under suspicion. Of course if they read your post their cover is blown.
 
I can't disagree with that assessment, but hes no different than anybody else who has held that job. Which is to protect the president.

The "they all do it" excuse. It never seems to go away.
 

She's pretty good. I can tend to believe the president taking Benghazi as a political even as it seems he has never stopped campaigning. Even with the gun control bill, instead of working the phones with congress to get the votes like Clinton did to get his gun control passed, he went on the campaign trail to tote the bill. If LBJ, another president who would work the phones with congress used Obama's strategy of campaign mood on the Civil Rights Act or the Voting Rights act, we would have neither of them now. LBJ, Clinton were willing to utilize political capital to get things through Congress, I really haven't seen this in the current president. Even the passing of the ACA, it was all Reid and Pelosi.
 
The person responsible for the 20 children deaths is now dead.
And the people responsible for the deaths of the 4 adults very well could be as well. At the very least, you know they are being investigated and tracked.

Once we know for certain who failed to help those 4 Americans who died, I would go along with the same punishment.
Whoa whoa whoa, you're changing your story. In the first place, you want to blame the person who committed the deed, and in the second, you don't want to blame the person/persons who committed the deed but rather other people you feel contributed to the situation. Try to be consistent. Nobody in America killed those 4 adults, no more than Bushmaster killed those 20 children. If you're going to blame those who contributed to the situation, then I suggest you start leveling your ire towards the gun manufacturers also.
What difference, at this point, does it make?
Exactly. What difference, at this point, does it make? How about we spend our time actually making a difference, instead of trying to score political points about something that happened 8 months ago?

As for finding common ground, in the senate I think you have to get rid of Reid and McConnell both and replace them with leaders interested in solving problems and looking out for America and her future instead of only looking for what is good for your political party. I might recommend Alexander on the Republican side, maybe a Pryor or a Udall on the Democratic side.

The house, it does seem at times Boehner would be willing to work with the president, then it seems members of his own party tend to rebel at that thought. So it is my opinon even if Boehner is willing, he won’t work with the president if he wants to remain speaker and so we are back to gridlock.
In order to find common ground, Republicans need to squash two things: 1) the stupid tea party people and 2) the amount of money allowed to be spent on elections.

The Republican party is incredibly fractured right now, and that fracture is mostly responsible for the lack of common ground. You have stupid tea party people (and I want to clarify that believing in the ideals of the tea party is not necessarily stupid, I'm simply referring to the stupid people who ascribed to tea party concepts) who keep pushing increasingly radical solutions to problems ( which sometimes don't even exist) and refuse any possibility of compromise. You have moderate Republicans in between a rock and a hard place because they can't move right if they wish to get something done but can't move center if they want to win elections. And the only reason challenges from the right are so scary is because of the vast amounts of money which are allowed to flow unchecked into elections, even the primaries.

Until this get fixed, the common ground will not be found, regardless of who is in charge.
 
Hillary and Barry decided that the Ambassador was already dead so it was time to call it a night? That's not as great an excuse as you might hope it to be.

They had nothing to do with the "stand down order". It was a military decision, period. This is the dumbest stuff you guys have tried and its not going to get you anywhere but lower in the polls. Keep it up.
 
Is it possible that the attack on Benghazi was BOTH an attack by Islamic extremists AND motivated by the video?
 
Yeah real proud, so proud of America they regularly admit to despising half of all Americans.
Or worse, they attack Americans right after an attack on a US embassy by Islamic extremists. It makes me wonder whose side Republicans are really on, the US or Al Qaedas.
 
Is it possible that the attack on Benghazi was BOTH an attack by Islamic extremists AND motivated by the video?

Hiya Moot. :2wave: No.....there were prior attacks on the Consulate. They Attempted to assassinate the Brits Ambassador and the Italians. They Attacked the Red Cross Offices.

There was No Protestors or demonstration in Benghazi.....that is the whole point. It was a Pre-Planned attack, Organized, and for Over a Month Team Obama denied it saying all was connected to the Video.....until finally admitting to it after others had already told the media it was an Attack.

Course now we know they knew all along.
 
And the people responsible for the deaths of the 4 adults very well could be as well. At the very least, you know they are being investigated and tracked.


Whoa whoa whoa, you're changing your story. In the first place, you want to blame the person who committed the deed, and in the second, you don't want to blame the person/persons who committed the deed but rather other people you feel contributed to the situation. Try to be consistent. Nobody in America killed those 4 adults, no more than Bushmaster killed those 20 children. If you're going to blame those who contributed to the situation, then I suggest you start leveling your ire towards the gun manufacturers also.
Exactly. What difference, at this point, does it make? How about we spend our time actually making a difference, instead of trying to score political points about something that happened 8 months ago? QUOTE]


"Oh".....do you think there is an Active investigation going on in Libya trying to bring those to Justice? Is there some reason why no one has been brought in for Questioning by us? Any reason why we don't have the Leader of Ansar Al Sharia in Custody?

The difference it makes is to those who have fallen.....as well as any others working in government who have to rely on their government to come and get them out if harm comes their way. Do you think those that Actually Serve the Country should be able to.....at the very least trust their government some what partially. Do you think that is important going forward for all those that serve everywhere else too?
 
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Republicans delight in their cuts for embassy security.

 
Is it possible that the attack on Benghazi was BOTH an attack by Islamic extremists AND motivated by the video?

No. There were prior attacks on the consulate before there was a video.

That's one of the questions the Obama administration is having problems answering, why wasn't security beefed up after the first attacks ? Diverting funds from security for green electric cars and green recharging stations doesn't fly. But then again Obama has no problem paying $57 per gallon for GP-8 jet fuel.
 
That was Debunked......by the Fact Checkers. Which we did so in 3 other threads. Try again!

Just pointing out that the Republican there says "Absolutely"(affirmative)when asked whether it was true that he voted to cut embassy security.

Sorry, cant say much about the debunking you mention, just what I heard from the horses mouth there.
 
No. There were prior attacks on the consulate before there was a video.

That's one of the questions the Obama administration is having problems answering, why wasn't security beefed up after the first attacks ? Diverting funds from security for green electric cars and green recharging stations doesn't fly. But then again Obama has no problem paying $57 per gallon for GP-8 jet fuel.

Well that will fall on Hillary and her people.....especially Charlene Lamb. Remember how Team Obama was saying that Nordstrom had not told them about the Security on the ground Prior to the attack. That Lamb and Nuland stated that there were none others in the Loop?

Well that's a lie by Team Obama.....evidenced.

nordstrom-to-jim-bacigalupo.png


Do you think the Nay-sayers and those on the Left can dispute the source? Do you think team Obama can?

Who's name is Blacked out? Yet we are allowed to see who the others this was sent to.

BTW note how Norstrom points out they couldn't move for 10 day periods. Do you think that affects all operations? Yet Team Obama will have you believe they were doing all they could.....Right?
 
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Hiya Moot. :2wave: No.....there were prior attacks on the Consulate. They Attempted to assassinate the Brits Ambassador and the Italians. They Attacked the Red Cross Offices.

There was No Protestors or demonstration in Benghazi.....that is the whole point. It was a Pre-Planned attack, Organized, and for Over a Month Team Obama denied it saying all was connected to the Video.....until finally admitting to it after others had already told the media it was an Attack.

Course now we know they knew all along.
Hi MMC ;)

Suppose the attack was the protest? Since none of the attackers have been arrested then how do they know they weren't motivated by the protests in Cairo to attack the compound and the CIA annex in Benghazi?

Yes, there were previous attacks in Benghazi and each of those attacks were from different groups with different motivations. For instance, the attack on June 8, 2012 was carried out by individuals affiliated with Ansar Al-Sharia Libyain in protest of Tunisian artists against Islam. Other attacks were by other groups in retaliation for drone assassinations. The point is they were different groups with different motivations attacking different sites all over Benghazi.

This webpage lists the attacks in 2012 in Bengazi and the groups and their motivations....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack

The attack on 9/11 happened on the same day as the protest in Cairo and it was being broadcast all over the Middle East. Gregory Hicks was watching it on TV when Stevens called him to tell him that the compound was under attack. I find it very difficult to believe that the Islamic extremists and militant factions in Benghazi weren't watching it as well.

The FBI isn't having much luck with it's investigation. The Libyan government is reluctant to help and witnesses on the street are reluctant to talk to the FBI for fear of retaliation. Imo, the Libyan president was a little too quick to come out and say it was a terrorist attack and had nothing to do with the Cairo protests against the video. Obviously it was an "act of terror" but how would he know who or what the motivation was?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/w...pers-benghazi-assault-investigation.html?_r=0

ADMIRAL MULLEN who co-authored the ARB report says there were gaps in intelligence and there wasn't any warning of the attack. That would suggest it could have been a spontaneous act of terror....

"...We found that there was no immediate tactical warning of the September 11th attacks, but there was a knowledge gap in the intelligence community’s understanding of extremist militias in Libya and the potential threat they posed to U.S. interests, although some threats were known. In this context, increased violence and targeting of foreign diplomats and international organizations in Benghazi failed to come into clear relief against a backdrop of ineffective local governance, widespread political violence, and inter-militia fighting, as well as the growth of extremist camps and militias in eastern Libya...."
Briefing on the Accountability Review Board Report

The CIA doesn't seem to have any solid answers for motivation either. All they can surmise is that the attack was carried out by Islamic extremists and a few of the perps may have had sympathetic ties to Al Qaeda. In other words, they don't know who or what the actual motivation for the attack was.

So whose to say it wasn't both...an act of terror in protest of the video AND carried out by terrorists?
 
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