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IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups[W:484,732]

Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Guy Incognito said:
She didn't lie about anything. She did her job well, and she pushed the constitutional envelope. I don't see Republicans getting upset at unconstitutional profiling of various minorities, unconstitutional marriage restrictions, unconstitutional establishment of religion in the pledge of allegiance or on money, the hundreds of other instances where the government breaks its own rules. Selective outrage is all this is, and a witch hunt. You are not pursuing this is good faith. If you were to set your partisanship aside you'd see there is no issue here at all.
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'No issue here at all'??? EVERYONE from the President, press secretary, Treasury secretary, EVERY congress person in hearing both last and this week and the VARIOUS other government officials have been emphatic that there IS and issue here...what am I missing?
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Jack Hays said:
The power to tax is the power to destroy. This is a serious matter. If she really does take the fifth then the reaction will achieve critical mass and the administration risks a firestorm.:shock:
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Yeah, why let facts get in the way of a good scandal?
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Dickieboy said:
'No issue here at all'??? EVERYONE from the President, press secretary, Treasury secretary, EVERY congress person in hearing both last and this week and the VARIOUS other government officials have been emphatic that there IS and issue here...what am I missing?
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So now the people who claim that Obama and his administration are liars suddenly take what they say as the Gospel! :roll:
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Dickieboy said:
'No issue here at all'??? EVERYONE from the President, press secretary, Treasury secretary, EVERY congress person in hearing both last and this week and the VARIOUS other government officials have been emphatic that there IS and issue here...what am I missing?
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There is a very minor constitutional issue, nothing that you'd ever have gotten worked up about if the IRS was doing this to, say, Wiccans. But there was no deliberate targeting of conservatives for political purposes.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

trfjr said:
And what scares the hell out of me and should also you. The IRS is the enforcement arm for Obama care. They will be granted access to you medical records
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You are letting your imagination run wild. The IRS will not have access to your medical records. Their enforcement role in "Obamacare" has nothing to do with the medical side of things.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Jack Hays said:
Name one innocent victim who has taken the fifth.:mrgreen:
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That's not the point and I'm sure you know it. It is the law/prosecution's obligation to catch you, charge you and find you guilty. While immoral/unethical the clearest explanation is 'it's all legal if you don't get caught'.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

nota bene said:
I hope every citizen is concerned because what's going on here is a wake-up call.
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How so?
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

sangha said:
So now the people who claim that Obama and his administration are liars suddenly take what they say as the Gospel! :roll:
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Please point out where I claimed 'that Obama and his administration are liars'...I'll wait...:coffeepap
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Guy Incognito said:
There is a very minor constitutional issue, nothing that you'd ever have gotten worked up about if the IRS was doing this to, say, Wiccans. But there was no deliberate targeting of conservatives for political purposes.
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You very well may be right...or wrong. Currently we just don't know and as the IG testified today their audit is done but the investigation is not yet. We will see if 'deliberate targeting' was done. Of course you are free to support your assertion anytime.

ps. Miller DID testify today that the targeting was 'partisan' in nature.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

What if...? said:
Actually, ALL 501(c)(3) groups that are political in nature receive extra scrutiny. Because by nature they skate the line of tax exempt status.

The years in question would have been the first since they started getting big money, and for many would have been the first years they filed.

Still sounds like bureaucracy to me, as opposed to a partisan issue.
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I think you mean 501(c)(4) groups, which is what this whole thing is about. 501(c)(3) is for charitable organizations the provide for tax deductibility of contributions. The 501(c)(3) groups can have NO political agenda. 501(c)(4) groups can have influence legislation, but not endorse candidates. The political side of 501(c)(4)s can not be the major thrust of the group. The reason "tea party" groups fell into the IRS cross-hairs is 1) there were a ton of them formed in 2009-2011 and 2) they play firmly in the gray space between education and politics. They walk a very fine line in being a 501(c)(4).

The huge advantage to being a 501(c)(4) is they do not have to disclose their contributors, unlike 527 groups.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/501c4-vs-501c3-vs-527/

It's a pity that the guys over there at Fox are too busy trying to fan the flames of controversy rather than explain what happened here. I dare say I have yet to see a single poster on DP that remotely understands the issue.... that, of course, does not stand in the way of people advocating for jail and impeachment....
 
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Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

upsideguy said:
I think you mean 501(c)(4) groups, which is what this whole thing is about. 501(c)(3) is for charitable organizations the provide for tax deductibility of contributions. The 501(c)(3) groups can have NO political agenda. 501(c)(4) groups can have influence legislation, but not endorse candidates. The political side of 501(c)(4)s can not be the major thrust of the group. The reason "tea party" groups fell into the IRS cross-hairs is 1) there were a ton of them formed in 2009-2011 and 2) they play firmly in the gray space between education and politics. They walk a very fine line in being a 501(c)(4).

The huge advantage to being a 501(c)(4) is they do not have to disclose their contributors, unlike 527 groups.
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And yet the IRS targeting preceded the upsurge in Tea Party applications.:shock:
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

upsideguy said:
...I dare say I have yet to see a single poster on DP that remotely understands the issue.... that, of course, does not stand in the way of people advocating for jail and impeachment....
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Ok, just for my (and apparently all the rest of us DP posters) edification, what is the 'issue'?
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Dickieboy said:
That's not the point and I'm sure you know it. It is the law/prosecution's obligation to catch you, charge you and find you guilty. While immoral/unethical the clearest explanation is 'it's all legal if you don't get caught'.
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Legally and constitutionally it's not the point. Politically it's the only point.:cool:
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Jack Hays said:
And yet the IRS targeting preceded the upsurge in Tea Party applications.:shock:
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Unless you are suggesting this a Bush Administration problem, that is not true. The tea party groups began forming in the summer of 2009....
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Dickieboy said:
Please point out where I claimed 'that Obama and his administration are liars'...I'll wait...:coffeepap
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After you point out where I claimed you said they were liars. I'll wait....:coffeepap:
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

upsideguy said:
Unless you are suggesting this a Bush Administration problem, that is not true. The tea party groups began forming in the summer of 2009....
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The upsurge in applications came later. Targeting preceded the upsurge.:cool:
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

sangha said:
After you point out where I claimed you said they were liars. I'll wait....:coffeepap:
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Sure, you posted:
sangha said:
So now the people who claim that Obama and his administration are liars suddenly take what they say as the Gospel! :roll:
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In response to my post...are you now inferring that I am not included in 'the people'. If not why did you direct said response to my post?
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Dickieboy said:
Sure, you posted:


In response to my post...are you now inferring that I am not included in 'the people'. If not why did you direct said response to my post?
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I don't see anything in that quote that specifies you

I'm still waiting....:coffeepap:
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

sangha said:
I don't see anything in that quote that specifies you

I'm still waiting....:coffeepap:
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Given this response I presume your answer to the previous question to be in the negative which leaves the balance, "why did you direct said response to my post?"

Care to give it another shot?...:coffeepap:
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Dickieboy said:
Given this response I presume your answer to the previous question to be in the negative which leaves the balance, "why did you direct said response to my post?"

Care to give it another shot?...:coffeepap:
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To point out how your point is politically meaingless
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

sangha said:
To point out how your point is politically meaingless
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AH, so the opinions of 'EVERYONE from the President, press secretary, Treasury secretary, EVERY congress person in hearing both last and this week and the VARIOUS other government officials' are politically meaningless? Really?
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Dickieboy said:
AH, so the opinions of 'EVERYONE from the President, press secretary, Treasury secretary, EVERY congress person in hearing both last and this week and the VARIOUS other government officials' are politically meaningless? Really?
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WRT whether this indicates any wrongdoing on the part of the admin, yes it's politically meaningless
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Dickieboy said:
Ok, just for my (and apparently all the rest of us DP posters) edification, what is the 'issue'?
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I think the body of my original statement had most of it... but let's further elaborate:

The IRS was using intelligent discriminators to identify potential political groups applying for tax-exempt status under a category reserved for groups that were only secondarily political.

IRS targeted groups that criticized the government, IG report says

Yes, the IRS did get overly zealous in its scrutiny. However, unlike the suggestion of parts of the media that would have you believe that people were targeted, harassed, audited or otherwise denied their rights. None of this happened. In fact, no taxpayers were harmed in the making of this "scandal" No one was denied the tax exempt status sought.

The default position of a 501(c)(4) application is that you get the tax exempt status, you get to simply declare yourself a 501(c)(4) and act accordingly. You do not have to apply for the status. However, entities that exist on the bubble between those that educate about social welfare and those with a political agenda (like Tea Party entities) are advised to obtain the blessing of the IRS, lest they later be declared not a 501(c)(4). The IRS CAN take away the status, but it does not grant the status. Curiously, however, this entire controversy was born and lived during the tenure of Douglas Shulman, a Bush appointee (who served until November 2012). He doesn't seem to be a likely guy to have a political agenda AGAINST conservative groups.

The reason there was no foul, is that no one lost their status as a result of this. They "crime" was they were asked a lot of questions. The link below is the actual "declaration" form.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/Form14449.pdf

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/501c4-vs-501c3-vs-527/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)

Yes, the IRS used discriminators that singled out Tea Party groups, but they were the most prevalent and the most controversial (in terms of qualifying as a 501(c)(4) group) of the time. This is blown way out of proportion.
 
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