Inhofe, Lucas Introduce Bill Limiting Federal Agencies From Stockpiling Ammunition

polgara said:

Judging from how our elected officials are acting, they've stopped working for the people...it's all Party now. And it's frightening to think that Martial Law would ever be needed for the majority of us, who are mostly law-abiding, decent people. :scared:

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j-mac said:

So you can't answer the question...Figures.

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Μολὼν λαβέ;1061739136 said:

Or maybe you can share the logical reasoning for the massive amounts of ammo purchases by the US government?

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Hatuey said:

2 ongoing wars, half a dozen conflicts where we're supplying guerrilla fighters with ammo.... just a thought.

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j-mac said:

It's about time....With progressive liberals losing the battle to restrict American's 2nd Amendment rights, they took a parallel track to attack the amendment through buying up all the ammunition used for the most popular weapons most people legally own. It was a transparent attempt to, if not limit ammunition for sale, it was at the least designed to cause shortages that drive prices up.

I'd like to know why DHS needs so much ammo? Reports have placed the amount at 1000 rounds per person more than our military uses...That is stunning. What's it for?



So demo's ridicule, shocking! That is what they always do when they get caught isn't it?

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j-mac said:

So you can't answer the question...Figures.

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Zariak said:

If this were the other way around, the Republicans would be crying that the Dems are being unpatriotic and trying to cripple our military.

Can't you see the irony here? Republicans trying to limit our military power?

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Even realizing that he was going to immediately be labeled as a Right wing conspiracy theorist by the Left, Congressman Jason Chaffetz posed a rather pesky question to the Department of Homeland Security this week which is sure to get a lot of tongues wagging. Why do they need to purchase huge stockpiles of ammunition? Far more, in fact, than the Army buys on a per capita basis.

Homeland Security’s procurement officer is grilled in Congress on why federal agents who rarely fire weapons need several times more bullets annually than an Army officer. Who or what are they shooting at?
Republican Rep. Jason Chaffetz on Thursday asked Nick Nayak, DHS’ chief procurement officer, a question we and others have been asking: Why has the Department of Homeland Security been buying so much ammunition?
Dismissed as a concern only of right-wing conspiracy theorists, the reported amounts as high as 2 billion rounds have varied and been explained not as a one-time purchase but a bulk buy over five years to reduce costs. It’s one of the rare instances, apparently, a government agency has actually cared about such a thing.
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Chaffetz notes that DHS is currently sitting on more than 260 million rounds of ammunition. Their current claimed rate of expending bullets works out to between 1,300 and 1,600 rounds per officer each year, while the Army averages 350 per officer. Nyak agreed with the math, but insisted that DHS goes through roughly that amount every year, almost exclusively for training. But if it’s for training, there’s another question to be answered.

Jonathan L. Lasher, the Social Security Administration’s assistant inspector general for external relations, has previously explained the purchase of 174,000 hollow-point bullets by saying they were for the Social Security inspector general’s office…
Another question is why so many hollow-point bullets are being purchased?
As former Marine Richard Mason recently told reporters with WHPTV News in Pennsylvania, hollow-points (which make up the bulk of the DHS purchases) are not used for training because they are more expensive than standard firing-range rounds. “We never trained with hollow points. We didn’t even see hollow points my entire 4-1/2 (years) in the Marine Corps,” Mason said.
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That’s a lot of ammo. And that’s one heck of a lot of hollow points to be wasting on paper targets.

Why is DHS stockpiling so much ammo? « Hot Air

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j-mac said:

We know that the liberal tactic is to attack the one asking questions, label them as some kind of nut, then dismiss them. This is a well worn out tactic, and it avoids honestly discussing the subject. I think it is a reasonable question to ask why DHS needs so much ammo. What are they doing with it?

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poweRob said:

So if under a Republican administration there is ammo stockpiling, it's because they are patriotic but if ammo stockpiling happens during a Dem administration then the big bad gubamint is going to attack us all... got it.

Just wanna find where your paranoia limits are.

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Taylor said:

HAHAHAHA!

Next thing you know the extreme right wing will be claiming that the Obama administration told gun sellers to illegally sell a couple thousand AK-47s and high-powered handguns to criminals so that they could be walked over the border and into the hands of Mexican drug lords! Their conspiracy theories never cease!

HAHAHAHA!

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notquiteright said:

This was answered in another thread awhile back, I'm sure you read about it.

you can go read online about it, hot Air did a piece on it.

Basically the Department of Homeland Security is a blanket organization for a myriad of government agencies(22) and their training programs.

DHS didn't buy 1.6 to 2 billion rounds, they put out an option to buy 1.6 billion over a, and pay attention here, over a 5 year period. Think of it as a stock option with primers. It only makes sense a huge law enforcement group such as DHS which also has the Border Patrol as part of it's organization put out contracts to hold a certain amount of ammo to be available each year. (given the panic buying many are engaging in at every rumor it only makes sense)

But even so EVERY governmental agency tendered multi-year contracts for bulk consumables it can estimate it will need in the future.

The National Review has an article by Charles Cooke where he quotes the NRA as dismissive of the 'threat'.

I hope you investigate this a bit for yourself and not just the rabble rouser websites and bloggers.

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Empirica said:

I must have missed that one NQR_ Could you please link me to the site that confirmed DHS's 5 year option plan for this purchase?

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notquiteright said:

I can't link, but a young go getter such as yourself should be able to do what I did, google it. I give the Hot Air and National Review credit for the story, try some google. eace

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j-mac said:

Well, as these pieces so aptly, and sarcastically points out, buying over the 5 year period was in the governments explanation, 'to save money'.... Yeah right.....This would be a first for anyone in DC, saving money that is....Also, if this is for training as also was suggested by Nayak suggested, then why 'hollow points'?....If you're saving money that is....?

Sorry, the excuses don't pass the smell test here.

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Moot said:

If congress already knows how much ammo the DHS has then why do they need a report?

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I say go for it....end the DHS. The public didn't need or want it anyway.

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Unitedwestand13 said:

Alax jones is the one pushing this conspiracy? How does that make this story credible in any way? It is pure conspiracy theory.

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polgara said:

Judging from how our elected officials are acting, they've stopped working for the people...it's all Party now. And it's frightening to think that Martial Law would ever be needed for the majority of us, who are mostly law-abiding, decent people. :scared:

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poweRob said:

So if under a Republican administration there is ammo stockpiling, it's because they are patriotic but if ammo stockpiling happens during a Dem administration then the big bad gubamint is going to attack us all... got it.

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Just wanna find where your paranoia limits are.

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notquiteright said:

I understand for some no explanation will do. Somesome ever, for all some wags love to harp on gubmint saving money is like a hooker offering refunds, the government does at least attempt to secure reliable sources and avoid the price gouging the free market can engage in... Like Enron to California.

Now please pay attention... not ALL the ammo is for training and not all training is done with 'practice' ammo.

Train like you fight so you fight like you train... ever hear of that? I have seen pistols fail to chamber JHP after hundreds of flawless cycles with round nosed or ball rounds. I would suggest there is nothing in any option out there that would preclude buying cheaper ammo if desired any given year, the contract simply says x number of rounds for this price.

Next because it has benefited me, making the entire order one type of bullet made the purchase cheaper than a split of bullet types.

I have no doubt many will refuse to see this as an ongoing contract to maintain a reliable flow of a consumable and instead conjure up vast warehouses over flowing with crates of ammo, just waiting the order from President Obama to take away our freedoms... :roll:

For me that doesn't pass the smell test.... eace

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Unitedwestand13 said:

Alax jones is the one pushing this conspiracy? How does that make this story credible in any way? It is pure conspiracy theory.

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Moot said:

LOL well, that thar is yer source right thar.....Alex Jones, king of conspriacy nuts. Congress seems to have way too much time on their hands if this is the kind of nonsense they're spending their time and our tax dollars on.


Say, why don't they just vote themselves a longer recess....like say nine months out of the year since they're incapable of governing and doing more harm than good, anyway?

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He (Chaffetz) pointed out that DHS currently has more than 260 million rounds stockpiled. According to the lawmaker, the agency bought in excess of 103 million rounds in 2012 and reported using 116 million rounds over the year among its roughly 70,000 agents. Those numbers mean that DHS allocated 1,300 to 1,600 rounds per officer, dwarfing the U.S. Army’s average of roughly 350 rounds per soldier.

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j-mac said:

Well then, I go back to the first question, which is, if the army uses approximately 350 rounds per officer in training, why would DHS need approximately 1600 + rounds per DHS officer for training? BTW, there have been certain liberals speaking about this tactic that have let slip their intention to go after guns "through the back door", by attacking ammo, magazines, registration, insurance, etc....So don't give me the hot air that it is all just as innocent as a newborn babe playing in the back yard.... America is smarter than you and yours give credit for, and see through this BS.

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notquiteright said:

I heard the number as 350 rounds per PERSON per year in the army and some of we know a vast number of military personnel are civilians who learned how to salute. Wonder how many rounds a grunt burns through a year in training? I easily went through 300 a day when training, somewhere a REMF clerk had to sit at his/her desk going bang bang bang with his/her finger all coz of me... :lol:

Oh any new born babe playing in the backyard is suspect to me... never heard of a new born babe being able to do much of anything, especially in the backyard... doesn't pass the smell test, we had best check this out..... ahhh I got ya covered from here- YOU go check it out...

I am sure much of America is smarter than I, howsome ever I firmly believe most of those folks are not wearing tin foil hats... eace

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notquiteright said:

I can't link, but a young go getter such as yourself should be able to do what I did, google it. I give the Hot Air and National Review credit for the story, try some google. eace

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j-mac said:

Well then, I go back to the first question, which is, if the army uses approximately 350 rounds per officer in training, why would DHS need approximately 1600 + rounds per DHS officer for training? BTW, there have been certain liberals speaking about this tactic that have let slip their intention to go after guns "through the back door", by attacking ammo, magazines, registration, insurance, etc....So don't give me the hot air that it is all just as innocent as a newborn babe playing in the back yard.... America is smarter than you and yours give credit for, and see through this BS.

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Empirica said:

Seriously??? :lamo You actually want me to confirm your facts for you??? :lamo That's priceless! :lamo

I believe Debate 101 teaches that it's the responsibility of each debater to confirm their own facts_

Although, if it was simply your "opinion" then no confirmation would have been expected of you_

So from now on I suggest you begin each post with "IMO" to avoid those annoying inconvenient facts_

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