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Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

X Factor said:
They
were only born because he induced them. What's the difference between the baby that he took out then killed or allowed to die and a baby of the same age still in the womb?
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Nothing. If it can live outside the womb then it doesn't need to die to protect the life, health, and safety of the pregnant female.

I don't support late term abortion. There is obviously a big difference between late and early term abortion.

How can you not see such facts?
 
sangha said:
Another lie

The truth is, the abortion banners talk about abortion as if every one was a late term abortion
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There's some truth to this. By the same token, the abortion rights crowd tend to talk abortion as if every pregnancy was a result of rape and that every abortion occurs within a few days of conception.
 
From the grand jury report:

This case is about a doctor who killed babies and endangered women. What we mean is that he regularly and illegally delivered live, viable, babies in the third trimester of pregnancy – and then murdered these newborns by severing their spinal cords with scissors. The medical practice by which he carried out this business was a filthy fraud in which he overdosed his patients with dangerous drugs, spread venereal disease among them with infected instruments, perforated their wombs and bowels – and, on at least two occasions, caused their deaths. Over the years, many people came to know that something was going on here. But no one put a stop to it.

Let us say right up front that we realize this case will be used by those on both sides of the abortion debate. We ourselves cover a spectrum of personal beliefs about the morality of abortion. For us as a criminal grand jury, however, the case is not about that controversy; it is about disregard of the law and disdain for the lives and health of mothers and infants. We find common ground in exposing what happened here, and in recommending measures to prevent anything like this from ever happening again.

http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/pdfs/grandjurywomensmedical.pdf
 
Josie said:
That's what I thought. Even if abortion was illegal, you still wouldn't call an abortion doctor a murderer. So it's really not about the law at all, it's about your opinion.
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Would you agree by that logic that the death penalty is just legalized murder?

Regardless the law is quite clear in saying that abortion is legal and is not murder.

Dr. George tiller was a abortion doctor who provided abortion.

Gosnell in my opinion used his profession as a excuse to commit murder of baby's out of the womb.

That is my definition of when a vim baby's life begins, when it is out of the womb and being nursed in its mothers arms.
 
SheWolf said:
Nothing. If it can live outside the womb then it doesn't need to die to protect the life, health, and safety of the pregnant female.

I don't support late term abortion. There is obviously a big difference between late and early term abortion.

How can you not see such facts?
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No. I don't see any "obviously big difference". It's arbitrary line drawing that does nothing change the character or reality of what's in the womb.
 
Abortion should be made illegal because of this, just like fireworks should be made illegal because some people have been killed by Patriot Missiles.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Would you agree by that logic that the death penalty is just legalized murder?

Regardless the law is quite clear in saying that abortion is legal and is not murder.

Dr. George tiller was a abortion doctor who provided abortion.

Gosnell in my opinion used his profession as a excuse to commit murder of baby's out of the womb.

That is my definition of when a vim baby's life begins, when it is out of the womb and being nursed in its mothers arms.
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The only reason they were out of the womb is because he induced them. If he had cut them apart while in the womb and took them out in pieces, would that be better?
 
Josie said:
I'm not
forcing anyone to have a kid. Ninety-nine percent of the time, women make the CHOICE to participate in the act that might impregnate them.
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You wouldn't be forcing them to have sex or become pregnant, but you support forcing them to carrying to term, thereafter they have would have the freedom to choose pattering or adoption.


I'll admit abortion ends a life, and you can't admit something like this. Kind of funny.
 
X Factor said:
The only reason they were out of the womb is because he induced them. If he had cut them apart while in the womb and took them out in pieces, would that be better?
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In my oppinion that would have been worse.

But gossnell was not doing abortions, he was murdering baby's.

Abortion requires the patient to agree to the operation.
 
Grant said:
It is not

my definition. Gosnell murdered enough babies that he has been charged with three counts of murder. It is suspected that he may be the worst serial killer in American history. He is not being charged with performing an abortion.



Yeah, Tiller the baby killer. It seems Gosnell falls into the same category, and who knows how many more are out there?
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This is murder and not abortion. Killing a viable infant outside the womb us murder.

Do you not understand that legal early term abortion, and what this guy did us not the same?
 
Josie said:
How about someone actually INSPECTING his clinic instead of letting him mutilate and murder babies and women for years?
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Indeed. There are agencies charged with that duty who failed. So we don't need more regulation.
 
SheWolf said:
This is murder and not abortion. Killing a viable infant outside the womb us murder.

Do you not understand that legal early term abortion, and what this guy did us not the same?
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What's the difference?
 
Gina said:
Indeed. There are agencies charged with that duty who failed. So we don't need more regulation.
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Yes, this was a 17-years long systemic failure. Inexcusable.
 
Josie said:
Let's
pretend that abortion was illegal when Dr. Tiller was alive and working. Would you call him a murderer then?
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My understanding was his abortions were late term abortions performed on women and fetuses with health issues.

I wouldn't call him a murderer.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Would you agree by that logic that the death penalty is just legalized murder?
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Well, sure.

Unitedwestand13 said:
Regardless the law is quite clear in saying that abortion is legal and is not murder.
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And if it was illegal, you would call abortion doctors murderers?

Unitedwestand13 said:
That is my definition of when a vim baby's life begins, when it is out of the womb and being nursed in its mothers arms.
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How does something grow if it isn't alive?
 
Gina said:
Indeed. There are agencies charged with that duty who failed. So we don't need more regulation.
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Yes, they failed. Do you agree with me that abortion clinics should have frequent, unplanned inspections to make sure we don't have more Gosnells in this country?
 
SheWolf said:
My understanding was his abortions were late term abortions performed on women and fetuses with health issues.

I wouldn't call him a murderer.
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He was required to report all procedures. Gestational age and reason as to why it was so late. He was never found to have performed an illegal abortion.
 
Josie said:
You were
talking about having an abortion so that the abuser wouldn't have parental rights to the child.
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you misunderstood what I said. I was talking about abusers not having access to the women they abuse. Its not just a matter of parental rights either, though avoiding having a child with an abuser can help the victim leave.

I do support victims of violence and domestic violence having a right to abortion.
 
Josie said:
Yes, they failed. Do you agree with me that abortion clinics should have frequent, unplanned inspections to make sure we don't have more Gosnells in this country?
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Unplanned as long as they don't violate the privacy of patients.
 
SheWolf said:
This is murder and not abortion. Killing a viable infant outside the womb us murder.

Do you not understand that legal early term abortion, and what this guy did us not the same?
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The only difference is that there's a law permitting early term abortion and a law against what Gosnell did. The difference isn't the definition of "life".
 
SheWolf said:
Yeah, because you care more about the unborn life.
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I care about human life period. Stop going back to the same stupid arguments.
 
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