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Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

SheWolf said:
No because this guy actually broke the law
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That's right, which makes the debate about abortion meaningless. Instead of defending this scumbag why aren't we all attacking him for his crimes against humanity?

Should we expect different standards when late term abortionists commit crimes rather that treating them like ordinary criminals?

That's why this debate over whether or not a baby could swim in a toilet is so bizarre. If women were stabbed numerous times and thrown into the East River would their ability to swim or not ever enter the picture?
 
hfd said:
" Abortion mortality rate 0.6 per 100,000."

Wrong...it's almost 100%. The baby generally dies. Maybe you didn't know that.
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... I think you've wildly misinterpreted how statistics work.
 
Grant said:
That's
right, which makes the debate about abortion meaningless. Instead of defending this scumbag why aren't we all attacking him for his crimes against humanity?

Should we expect different standards when late term abortionists commit crimes rather that treating them like ordinary criminals?

That's why this debate over whether or not a baby could swim in a toilet is so bizarre. If women were stabbed numerous times and thrown into the East River would their ability to swim or not ever enter the picture?
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Who is defending him?
 
SheWolf said:
Who is defending him?
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Someone said, for example, "My understanding was his abortions were late term abortions performed on women and fetuses with health issues. I wouldn't call him a murderer".

That sounds like a defense to me.
 
Strucker said:
Point of order: right-wing Holocaust denial is a lot more prevalent than the leftish variety, which is negligible.
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This isn't a point of order; it's an irrelevancy.
 
Grant said:
Someone
said, for example, "My understanding was his abortions were late term abortions performed on women and fetuses with health issues. I wouldn't call him a murderer".

That sounds like a defense to me.
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I said that about Tiller.
 
Hatuey said:
I don't consider primordial soup to be a baby anymore than you consider a puddle of water to be a lake.
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So when does the baby cease to be 'promordial' soup...BTW:

"But is the “prebiotic soup” theory a reasonable explanation for the emergence of life? Contemporary geoscientists tend to doubt that the primitive atmosphere had the highly reducing composition used by Miller in 1953."


Bada, Jeffery L. & Lazcano, Antonio Prebiotic Soup, Science, May 2, 2003, pp. 745_46
 
Tiller was a murderer also....

Just so everyone is clear who PP is, and who founded them...

Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, is often hailed as a champion of women’s rights in historical texts and classes. However, chronically neglected is her true disdain for minority groups in America and how she saw birth control as a way of limiting the populations of those she deemed unworthy of bearing children, even going so far as to advocate that married couples must submit applications in order to have children!Planned Parenthood Founder Margaret Sanger

Sanger published articles in her newsletter, the ”Birth Control Review,” that depicted her opinions that certain groups of people should have “never should have been born” and that birth control was intended to “create a race of thoroughbreds,” and ensure that society had “more children from the fit, less from the unfit.”
Eugenics-advocate groups like the American Eugenics Society, of which Sanger was a listed member until 1956, suggested that the government should consider putting birth control chemicals in the food and water supplies in certain areas of the nation, specifically in urban areas that were dominated by minority groups. Sanger even suggested imposing a law that would disallow women from having children without first obtaining a permit from the government—a permit that would good for only one baby—and if approved, the couple would receive an antidote to counter the effects of the involuntarily ingested birth control chemicals.
The Planned Parenthood founder made her views even more blatantly obvious in a letter she wrote to a woman named Katherine Dexter McCormick in 1950, saying she thought that “…there should be national sterilization for certain dysgenic types of our population who are being encouraged to breed and would die out were the government not feeding them.” McCormick was very wealthy and she later went on to assist Sanger in developing and funding the birth control pill.
That’s funny, because Planned Parenthood never mentions any of these views upon which they were founded in 1942. Although they honor Margaret Sanger annually (with the “Maggie Award”), they conveniently pick and choose which of her values to publicly celebrate and which to sweep under the rug. They would never consider condemning the twisted ideologies of this woman.

Racist Planned Parenthood Founder Margaret Sanger Was Not so “Pro-Choice”
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april , 2009, two months into obama's presidency

President Obama's health secretary nominee got nearly three times as much political money from a controversial abortion doctor as she told senators.

The Health and Human Services Department said Monday that the omission was an oversight that Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius would correct.

In a response to questions from the Senate Finance Committee made public last week, Sebelius wrote that she received $12,450 between 1994-2001 from Dr. George Tiller, one of the nation's few late-term abortion providers.

But in addition to those campaign donations, records reviewed by The Associated Press show that Tiller gave at least $23,000 more from 2000-2002 to a political action committee Sebelius established while insurance commissioner to raise money for fellow Democrats.

Sebelius did not tell senators about that additional money, although Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., asked specifically about any Tiller donations to her PAC.

"There was an oversight in the initial answer provided to the committee," HHS spokesman Nick Papas said Monday. "Obviously donations to the PAC are a matter of public record. The governor is updating the answer to this question and will resubmit it to the committee."
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HHS Nominee Gov. Kathleen Sebelius Lowballed Abortion Doctor's Donations | Fox News
 
Prof, why not stick to the topic of discussion, as opposed to randomly spamming cut and pastes?
 
This [Gosnell case] has disturbing implications for late-term abortions. It suggests that sometimes those fetuses are delivered alive. Worse, it hints at what we might be doing inside the womb to ensure that the other ones aren't.
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dailybeast above

are skulls being crushed in a clinic near you?

why can't barack hussein obama come out against scissors?
 
j-mac said:
Tiller was a murderer also....


Just so everyone is clear who PP is, and who founded them...
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You would call any abortion provider a murder, but you cannot compare Tiller to person being discussed. Tiller has never been found to have broken laws or regulations, and since he was a late term abortion provider his patients were all in medical need of getting an abortion. Do you know anything that can dispute that?


Calling people murders like that has serious consequences, as show by the murder of Tiller himself. Watch what you say.

Really, post something that shows he broke laws or regulations or that his patients and/or the fetus didn't have cited medical conditions as the reason for obtaining a late term abortion.
 
SheWolf said:
You would call any abortion provider a murder, but you cannot compare Tiller to person being discussed. Tiller has never been found to have broken laws or regulations, and since he was a late term abortion provider his patients were all in medical need of getting an abortion. Do you know anything that can dispute that?


Calling people murders like that has serious consequences, as show by the murder of Tiller himself. Watch what you say.

Really, post something that shows he broke laws or regulations or that his patients and/or the fetus didn't have cited medical conditions as the reason for obtaining a late term abortion.
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Ofcourse Tiller was breaking the law...

very-pregnant young mothers as they were going into Tiller’s killing center, one after another, to have their babies killed-sometimes for such trivial reasons as, “I want to go to a rock concert, and this baby would get in the way.”
Another young mother got a late abortion from Tiller because of an upcoming PROM!
Unbelievable, but true!!!
Yet another far-along mother told one of our sidewalk counselors that she and her baby were perfectly healthy, but she was getting an abortion for financial reasons.
I’m not making this up! Those are some of the actual reasons given by some of Tiller’s patients!
The problem is, Kansas law FORBIDS the killing of a pre-born baby after 21 weeks gestation for ANY reason other than to save the life of the mother, or if the pregnancy would cause her a “substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function.”
George Tiller KNOWS this all too well.
And yet, he gladly kills perfectly healthy third-trimester babies in the wombs of perfectly healthy mothers ALL THE TIME-and he charges as much as $10,000 – $20,000 each!!!

You Can Help Put George Tiller In Prison!
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Wichita, KS – The hearing in a motion to suppress evidence against late-term abortionist George R. Tiller resumed today after a six week break. Tiller is charged with 19 counts of having committed illegal late-term abortions.
However, the casual observer might have thought that it was instead Kline who was on trial as he took the stand and testified for most of the day. Kline’s successor, Paul Morrison, actually filed the charges that Tiller now faces.
Tiller’s attorney, Dan Monnat, engaged in questioning that ran the gamut from boring and irrelevant to aggressive, offensive, and demeaning. Kline handled Monnet’s sometimes insulting questioning with grace and dignity.
In testimony perhaps even less to Monnat’s liking, Kline revealed that in April, 2006, he had gone to Shawnee County District Court Judge Richard Anderson because he had reason to believe that abortion records that he received through subpoena as Attorney General contained evidence of a conspiracy between Tiller and Planned Parenthood to violate the Kansas late-term abortion law. Nevertheless, Kline was ordered to return the Tiller records to then Attorney General Morrison.
Kline said that he found that Planned Parenthood had referred three women to Tiller for late-term abortions even though the women were over legal threshold of 22 weeks gestation, and that the women did not meet any of the exceptions to the Kansas ban on late-abortions since they had no physical or mental health problems. Judge Anderson later advised Kline to ask Morrison for the three records in question. Kline made the request, but Morrison refused it.

Hearing Reveals Tiller/Planned Parenthood Conspiracy To Break The Law
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The law Tiller broke repeatedly was KSA 65-6703, and avoided prosecution for his crimes through what I believe is protection from the now Sec. of HHS for the Obama administration Kathleen Sebelius

Sebelius is perhaps the most rabidly pro-abortion governor in the United States, and has a long history in Kansas of blocking common-sense legislation that would have protected women from unregulated and unaccountable abortion mills. She has also been caught impeding efforts to hold abortionists accountable to the law.
“Sebelius is joined at the hip with the abortion industry,” said Operation Rescue President Troy Newman. “She owes them her political career and has been more than willing to pay them back with personal favors that have shielded them from legislation and criminal prosecution. Her corrupt abortion politics make her unfit to serve.”
Extremist Support For Abortion
Sebelius has long been an avid supporter of the most radical abortion policies.
In an interview published twenty years ago on October 29, 1989, in the Wichita Eagle, Sebelius, who was then a member of the Kansas House of Representatives said, “I think for me and a lot of other people, there are certain inalienable rights established for a person, but those are not applied in utero.”
Sebelius has ties to late-term abortionist George R. Tiller, who is currently facing 19 criminal counts of having committed illegal late-term abortions. To understand how radical her support for Tiller truly is, it is important to understand what kind of abortion business Tiller operates. Click below to watch a revealing O’Reilly Factor interview with a former Tiller patient.

Sebelius Unfit For HHS Post – Facts About Her Connections To The Abortion Cartel
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The Prof said:
yes,
what percentage of pp clinics are located STILL in predominantly people of color communities?

Planned Parenthood is the black community's worst enemy - | Examiner.com

why did dr gosnell use the 15 year old anesthesiologist ONLY on his colored patients, with deadly results?
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A lot if early feminists had racist attitudes, including many if the ones beloved by the pro life movement. Much if it could be attributed to the fact they were pissed that black people were freed as slaves, and former slaves suddenly had more rights than they did.

You could say that they were trying to spring off the white man's anger who were unhappy being equal to their former slaves by saying, "we deserve more rights than those black people."


It doesn't make all feminism bad.

I would say the exception were feminist Quaker women, because Quakers were always far more progressive on equal rights. They built the underground railroad and have always been way ahead the rest of society in equal rights.

Elizabeth Blackwell, the first woman doctor and Lucretia Mott are a few Quaker feminist who come to mind.
 
j-mac said:
Ofcourse Tiller was breaking the law...







The law Tiller broke repeatedly was KSA 65-6703, and avoided prosecution for his crimes through what I believe is protection from the now Sec. of HHS for the Obama administration Kathleen Sebelius
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Was he ever found guilty of breaking any laws?

Is there medical evidence the women didn't have a medical need?


What you posted was word of mouth stuff that came from pro life protesters. Its really not enough to prove he was breaking any laws, and he definitely didn't deserve to be murdered.
 
SheWolf said:
A lot if early feminists had racist attitudes, including many if the ones beloved by the pro life movement. Much if it could be attributed to the fact they were pissed that black people were freed as slaves, and former slaves suddenly had more rights than they did.

You could say that they were trying to spring off the white man's anger who were unhappy being equal to their former slaves by saying, "we deserve more rights than those black people."


It doesn't make all feminism bad.

I would say the exception were feminist Quaker women, because Quakers were always far more progressive on equal rights. They built the underground railroad and have always been way ahead the rest of society in equal rights.

Elizabeth Blackwell, the first woman doctor and Lucretia Mott are a few Quaker feminist who come to mind.
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The Quakers have a real interesting activist legacy.
 
SheWolf said:
Was he ever found guilty of breaking any laws?

Is there medical evidence the women didn't have a medical need?
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Games were being played with evidence, and you know that.

What you posted was word of mouth stuff that came from pro life protesters. Its really not enough to prove he was breaking any laws, and he definitely didn't deserve to be murdered.
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I don't condone the murder of Tiller, anymore than I would his deplorable practices.
 
j-mac said:
Games
were being played with evidence, and you know that.



I don't condone the murder of Tiller, anymore than I would his deplorable practices.
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I don't have inside information, but know a lot of lifers are not going to approve of anybody performing late term abortion. The accusations don't surprise me.

His clinic saw violence for years until he was murdered, and none of those protesters nor Bill O Reilley thought to tone it down. So its kind if hard to take their word that he was breaking the law without any significant evidence of doing so. I think its more likely they would make those accusations and assumptions without having sufficient proof themselves, because if they had real evidence he'd be convicted instead in a grave right now.
 
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