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The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks...[W: 349]

Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

It doesnt suggest anything...You cannot surmise they dont think it is important, just not the MOST important.
bubbabgone said:
uh ... yeah ... that's what I've been saying.
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Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

mak2 said:
It doesnt suggest anything...You cannot surmise they dont think it is important, just not the MOST important.
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Okay ... let's try it this way.
Out of that 90% that favor universal background checks, how many were in that 96% who said it wasn't the most important issue?
And how many in that 90% would vote based on a candidate's support for universal background checks?
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

Ok I give.
bubbabgone said:
Okay ... let's try it this way.
Out of that 90% that favor universal background checks, how many were in that 96% who said it wasn't the most important issue?
And how many in that 90% would vote based on a candidate's support for universal background checks?
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Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

mak2 said:
Ok I give.
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You don't know ... no one does ... yet you've seen the 90% number tossed around with wild abandon for political reasons like it has some great meaning.
A better, more reality-based, way to look at it is that if the jamokes in D.C. actually knew they'd be voting against something they thought 90% of the citizenry was for, they wouldn't vote that way.
 
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Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

haymarket said:
First of all - restricting ownership to the mentally ill is NOT confiscation. Perhaps in some gun culture circles that false meme is common, but they are not the same thing.

Second, You bring up an interesting point that is worth pursuing. I have not read the entire bill. However, in summaries of the bill, it was stated repeatedly that people who were family within your household were not part of the background check mandate when selling or giving a gun to them. But you state that it was.

This needs to be settled with verifiable evidence.

I did find this:

PolitiFact | NRA says Manchin-Toomey would have criminalized some gun transfers between family, friends
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Gun culture, a term coined by a communist.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

American said:
Gun culture, a term coined by a communist.
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The term was popularized by noted eminent historian Richard Hofstadter in 1970. Some thirty years before, as a young man in 1938 and 39, he became infatuated with a woman who was a follower of communism who at the time was looked at as a bulwark against nazism. Over the next two years, he became disillusioned with communism and gave it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hofstadter

To call him a communist based on his youthful dalliance with it would be the same as calling the late Catholic Pope a Nazi for a similar youthful experience.

http://abcnews.go.com/International...wish-relations/story?id=18469350#.UXVPvuDO9Hg

It is simply foolishness as well as demonization which serves no intellectual purpose other than a knee jerk attack at your perceived enemies.
 
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Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

disneydude said:
You didn't read very carefully then. I could find many in which they referred to this legislation as "gun grabbing".....not what you claim.
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All gun control is an incremental step to "gun grabbing." It may not be in your mind, but for sure it is with the major gun control nuts.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

haymarket said:
That would depend on the laws of your state. What do they say?
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No, it should not depend on the laws of the state, as the right to keep and bear arms is an inherent right guaranteed by the constitution. That a family member may have some psychological disorder should not have any effect what so ever.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

haymarket said:
Thank heaven we have a US Supreme Court to make sure that does not happen.
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And yet this very US Supreme Court stripped all of the rights to life of innocent babies in the womb. I don't trust them any further than I can throw them.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

jamesrage said:
If that was true then expanded background checks would have passed months ago,you can't win elections on money alone. I seriously doubt that constituents in pro-2nd amendment states are telling their elected officials to support universal background checks except of a small minority. Maybe in California, New York, Massachusetts,Illinois and other anti-2nd amendment states that 93% of the constituents there are telling their elected to support universal background checks.
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It is not the "NRA" which has the power, or the money. It is the 5 million plus members who have the power and congress knows we tend to vote against idiots who pass gun control laws.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

haymarket said:
That is not what I am suggesting. Only that you judge them and their abilities properly and do not let yourself be worked into a state of unmerited paranoia about it.

Your analogy is flawed in that it takes a majority to pass legislation (which is no easy task particularly when it comes to the Second Amendment) while it only takes a single nut to do the evil of Boston or Aurora or Sandy Hook. it is the fallacy of false equivalency.
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The issue is simple. None of the gun control laws have yet to eliminate or even reduce evil such as happened in Boston, Aurora or Sandy Hook. All gun control laws do is make it difficult for law abiding people to get a firearm to protect themselves from evil doers like the ones perpetrating Boston, Aurora or Sandy Hook type events, and they are all an increment to eventual confiscation of all honest firearms.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

disneydude said:
The poll that you are referring to asked "What is the MOST IMPORTANT problem facing America today".....gun control got 4%.
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I answered that question affirmatively too; so part of that 4% are like me, important because we have TOO MUCH OF IT ALREADY.
The question posed that I am referring to is whether you favor universal background checks for gun purchases.
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No I am not for universal background checks.
1. It is one more increment in the direction of confiscation
2. It is not the governments business if I give my firearms to a friend or family member
3. Background checks give the government too much information which can be used by someone in the chain of command to create a data bank of who owns what and where.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

disneydude said:
Ever heard of Constitutional case law? Yeah.....thought not. I could tell from the ignorance displayed in the post. See.....the SCOTUS takes cases and interprets the application of the Constitution to those cases. The resulting opinions are called "caselaw".
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And like in Roe v Wade, bad caselaw.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

disneydude said:
The wacko gun nuts were already in hyper paranoia mode.....that is the only mode they know how to operate it. Well....that and hyper paranoia hysterics. Oh my....."There coming after my guns!!!!!'.
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With gun control nuts out there incrementally chopping away at our 2nd amendment it is obvious that our concern is no paranoia, but rather justified.

IE, it is not paranoia when someone is out to get you or you guns.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks...[W: 3

Erod said:
That is the Breaking News banner headline on cnn.com.

Fox News' banner reads: "SENATE REJECTS PLAN EXPANDING GUN BACKGROUNDCHECKS IN 54-46 VOTE"

Edit: And now there is a full link to include.

Background check plan defeated in Senate, Obama rips gun bill opponents | Fox News
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It's already difficult enough to buy a gun, not to mention gun dealers won't sell to "sketchy" individuals at gun shows...Oh yeah lets not forget gun enthusiasts are not killers... No we go fishing and hunting and when we do go hunting we generally use bows instead of guns. Even if we did use a gun it would be a shotgun for birds.

I have no idea why I'm demonized because gangbangers buy illegal guns and kill people while I shoot at food with a gun (im not a bird hunter either, I'm a bow hunter) or that I enjoy shooting at bottles or general inanimate targets...
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

dnsmith said:
It is not the "NRA" which has the power, or the money. It is the 5 million plus members who have the power and congress knows we tend to vote against idiots who pass gun control laws.
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I do not think its just the 5 million plus NRA members. There are around 70-80 million plus gun owners in this country, most of whom actually respect peoples right to keep and bear arms without it being infringed on.There are also lots of Americans who don't own guns but respect and value everyone else's constitutional rights to keep and bear arms without that right being infringed on. If it was just 5 million plus people I do not think congress would care.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

jamesrage said:
I do not think its just the 5 million plus NRA members. There are around 70-80 million plus gun owners in this country, most of whom actually respect peoples right to keep and bear arms without it being infringed on.There are also lots of Americans who don't own guns but respect and value everyone else's constitutional rights to keep and bear arms without that right being infringed on. If it was just 5 million plus people I do not think congress would care.
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I agree that there are more gun owners than NRA members. I was only making it clear that it is not the NRA making decisions but rather the NRA following the wishes of their members. Plus WE VOTE.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

jamesrage said:
I do not think its just the 5 million plus NRA members. There are around 70-80 million plus gun owners in this country, most of whom actually respect peoples right to keep and bear arms without it being infringed on.There are also lots of Americans who don't own guns but respect and value everyone else's constitutional rights to keep and bear arms without that right being infringed on. If it was just 5 million plus people I do not think congress would care.
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I remember Heston saying something of the sort to anti-gun loonies: "We don't need permission to be here because we are already here."

I loved that - just cant remember the verbatim quote.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

dnsmith said:
All gun control is an incremental step to "gun grabbing." It may not be in your mind, but for sure it is with the major gun control nuts.
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No it isn't. That is just right-wing hysteria promulgated by the gun nuts. That is akin to saying that smoking a joint leads to heroin addiction. It is nothing more than a line fed to the ignorant paranoid folk who sit in their houses fearing that the government is coming to take their bibles and guns away.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

disneydude said:
No it isn't. That is just right-wing hysteria promulgated by the gun nuts. That is akin to saying that smoking a joint leads to heroin addiction. It is nothing more than a line fed to the ignorant paranoid folk who sit in their houses fearing that the government is coming to take their bibles and guns away.
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Nope! Not hysteria! Maybe you don't want to confiscate all our guns but too many politicians like Feinstein do. Check out this daily Kos web site when explains incremental elimination of private owner ship of firearms.Daily Kos: How to Ban Guns: A step by step, long term process
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

dnsmith said:
Nope! Not hysteria! Maybe you don't want to confiscate all our guns but too many politicians like Feinstein do. Check out this daily Kos web site when explains incremental elimination of private owner ship of firearms.Daily Kos: How to Ban Guns: A step by step, long term process
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Yes....it IS paranoid hysteria. Just because some people might want to ban all guns does not mean that everyone who supports reasonable restrictions of guns is coming after you and your guns. It is amazing to me that some people get so caught up in the propoganda and hysteria that they become overly paranoid to the point of believing that people are out to get them and their guns.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

disneydude said:
Yes....it IS paranoid hysteria. Just because some people might want to ban all guns does not mean that everyone who supports reasonable restrictions of guns is coming after you and your guns. It is amazing to me that some people get so caught up in the propoganda and hysteria that they become overly paranoid to the point of believing that people are out to get them and their guns.
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You've already applied a straw argument into what he said...He never said that "everyone" supporting this legislation is coming after our guns...All one has to do is study how the banning of personal guns in Germany from 1919 thru the WWII can clearly see how this would happen. Also, that Janet Napalatano of DHS fame, was busted trying to get MO registration listings, prompting the MO official to resign in disgrace. They tried in that case to skirt the language of the law by having DHS request the list, and not the AG. This is how slippery, and what liars they are.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

The bottom line is....by opposing even the most reasonable of efforts to curb gun violence in America, the NRA and the wacko gun nuts are clearly showing America how extreme they are. This cannot be helpful to their cause. The idea that you have to oppose EVERY effort because it could potentially, although highly improbable that it will lead to the government coming into your homes to steal your guns is simply paranoid delusional. It is ridiculous and weakens the underlying cause that they are fighting for. They are marginalizing themselves in the eyes of the majority of America.
 
Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

I am very pro gun, but this time I thought we should get on board with this one. It could really backfire.
disneydude said:
The bottom line is....by opposing even the most reasonable of efforts to curb gun violence in America, the NRA and the wacko gun nuts are clearly showing America how extreme they are. This cannot be helpful to their cause. The idea that you have to oppose EVERY effort because it could potentially, although highly improbable that it will lead to the government coming into your homes to steal your guns is simply paranoid delusional. It is ridiculous and weakens the underlying cause that they are fighting for. They are marginalizing themselves in the eyes of the majority of America.
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