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Maryland decides to tax residents when it rains

StillBallin75 said:
Gotta love all the right-wing knee jerk reactions. If you actually read the link, it states the rationale for the tax - essentially the purpose is to raise funds to comply with an EPA directive to clean up the Chesapeake Bay, which, for those people who have never been to Maryland, is rather polluted and at the same time many residents are dependent on this body of water for their livelihoods. It's not the rain itself that's the problem, it's the surface runoff that results in pollution and erosion. This is exactly how Pigouvian taxes are supposed to work.

I'm sure my state government does a lot of dumb **** (assault weapons ban being one example) but this is not one of them. Take time to read and understand a topic before you start spewing bull**** "hurr durr they just be taxing people cuz it rains durrrr"
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That still sounds pretty stupid. There really isn't a way to explain the tax and get away from the fact that the tax idea exists which by itself is stupid.

Btw, some of us don't agree pigovian taxes since they are by their very nature social engineering.
 
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polgara said:
Good morning, j-mac! :2wave:

Their cooking is superb, especially their Maryland crab cakes! Yum...
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Oh yeah, I am a huge fan of Maryland steamed crab....Nothing better on a summer party day than sitting around a good table full of crabs, cooler of Ice cold Beer at arms length, and a roll of paper towel handy....Good times.

Next time, instead of leaving, you stay and get rid of the idiots! win-win
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Well, I lived in Harford county...Not bad for a conservative, but overall just too expensive....The house I bought in SC for $200K would have been $500K in Maryland...Plus, in SC where I live, I am still about 4 hours from the ocean at Myrtle Beach, and I now have the mountains and lakes within a 45 min drive, so a plus....I would love to build a Maryland style crab shack here in the Greenville area, with all the transplants, I am sure it would be a money maker.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Gotta love all the right-wing knee jerk reactions. If you actually read the link, it states the rationale for the tax - essentially the purpose is to raise funds to comply with an EPA directive to clean up the Chesapeake Bay, which, for those people who have never been to Maryland, is rather polluted and at the same time many residents are dependent on this body of water for their livelihoods. It's not the rain itself that's the problem, it's the surface runoff that results in pollution and erosion. This is exactly how Pigouvian taxes are supposed to work.

I'm sure my state government does a lot of dumb **** (assault weapons ban being one example) but this is not one of them. Take time to read and understand a topic before you start spewing bull**** "hurr durr they just be taxing people cuz it rains durrrr"
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Why is it that the only remedy that liberals can ever come up with is more taxes, more spending? Knee jerk? I don't think so, I lived there for 20 years.
 
j-mac said:
Oh yeah, I am a huge fan of Maryland steamed crab....Nothing better on a summer party day than sitting around a good table full of crabs, cooler of Ice cold Beer at arms length, and a roll of paper towel handy....Good times.



Well, I lived in Harford county...Not bad for a conservative, but overall just too expensive....The house I bought in SC for $200K would have been $500K in Maryland...Plus, in SC where I live, I am still about 4 hours from the ocean at Myrtle Beach, and I now have the mountains and lakes within a 45 min drive, so a plus....I would love to build a Maryland style crab shack here in the Greenville area, with all the transplants, I am sure it would be a money maker.
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All liberal states are expensive to live in. I think its a bit funny they want everyone to have all these things, but at the same time they push for a high cost of living. :D
 
Henrin said:
That still sounds pretty stupid. There really isn't a way to explain the tax and get away from the fact that the tax idea exists which by itself is stupid.
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The less it rains the higher the concentrations of the stuff they're complaining about actually get into the watershed when it does rain. So they're taxing that which they should pray for more of, causing higher taxes. So, rather than take action to reduce the pollutants, they're taxing the natural means of abatement. All of us should pray it rains like hell in MD.
 
humbolt said:
The less it rains the higher the concentrations of the stuff they're complaining about actually get into the watershed when it does rain. So they're taxing that which they should pray for more of, causing higher taxes. So, rather than take action to reduce the pollutants, they're taxing the natural means of abatement. All of us should pray it rains like hell in MD.
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Lets do something about the pollutants getting into the water? Rain causes it to wash into the water supply. Oh? Let's tax rain! I swear liberals remind me of myself when I was five.
 
This story reminds me of friend of mine who bought and lived in a house outside the city limits who used a well for his water. A few years later the city expanded their borders so that his home was now within the cities limits. The city came out and put a meter on his well and started taxing him on water usage. Their excuse was his water even tho it was in a private well was part of the greater watershed that the city was now responsible for so he had to pay his taxes on that water. :doh It just seemed absurd to me they should at least grandfathered wells or something.
 
Henrin said:
That still sounds pretty stupid. There really isn't a way to explain the tax.
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I just did.

and get away from the fact that the tax idea exists which by itself is stupid.
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Only if you don't understand how pollution works.

Btw, some of us don't agree pigovian taxes since they are by their very nature social engineering.
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No, the point of Pigouvian taxes is to offset negative externalities that aren't resolved by the market, of which pollution is a prime example. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

You can disagree with how a specific Pigouvian tax is implemented, or you can disagree with the necessity of a specific tax, but saying "I don't agree with the idea of Pigouvian taxes in general" means you are either ignorant or a blind market fundamentalist.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
Gotta love all the right-wing knee jerk reactions. If you actually read the link, it states the rationale for the tax - essentially the purpose is to raise funds to comply with an EPA directive to clean up the Chesapeake Bay, which, for those people who have never been to Maryland, is rather polluted and at the same time many residents are dependent on this body of water for their livelihoods. It's not the rain itself that's the problem, it's the surface runoff that results in pollution and erosion. This is exactly how Pigouvian taxes are supposed to work.

I'm sure my state government does a lot of dumb **** (assault weapons ban being one example) but this is not one of them. Take time to read and understand a topic before you start spewing bull**** "hurr durr they just be taxing people cuz it rains durrrr"
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That is exactly what we thought and exactly WHY its stupid.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I just did.
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You explained it alright, but it still came out sounding stupid.

Only if you don't understand how pollution works.
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So let's tax rain!

No, the point of Pigouvian taxes is to offset negative externalities that aren't resolved by the market, of which pollution is a prime example. It's not a hard concept to grasp.
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I understand it fine and I like it or not I made no mistake. You just support the government engineering the market and society as a whole to it's own desires by taxing people.
 
"Maryland decides to tax residents when it rains"

Now I am praying fervently that our fair state of Washington, and our illustrious city of Seattle don't get any ideas... (And I am an atheist!)
 
j-mac said:
Oh yeah, I am a huge fan of Maryland steamed crab....Nothing better on a summer party day than sitting around a good table full of crabs, cooler of Ice cold Beer at arms length, and a roll of paper towel handy....Good times.



Well, I lived in Harford county...Not bad for a conservative, but overall just too expensive....The house I bought in SC for $200K would have been $500K in Maryland...Plus, in SC where I live, I am still about 4 hours from the ocean at Myrtle Beach, and I now have the mountains and lakes within a 45 min drive, so a plus....I would love to build a Maryland style crab shack here in the Greenville area, with all the transplants, I am sure it would be a money maker.
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Well, now you've done it! I'm suddenly hungry for steamed crab! Darn you anyway, cause I live in NE Ohio, and it just doesn't taste the same here, even with the beer and paper towels thrown in...although that certainly doesn't hurt! :lamo:
 
Lachean said:
Just when I thought this state couldn't get any more stupid...
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They haven't even come close to how stupid they can be but with MOM in charge they are getting a good head of steam for the run towards it!
 
StillBallin75 said:
I just did.



Only if you don't understand how pollution works.



No, the point of Pigouvian taxes is to offset negative externalities that aren't resolved by the market, of which pollution is a prime example. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

You can disagree with how a specific Pigouvian tax is implemented, or you can disagree with the necessity of a specific tax, but saying "I don't agree with the idea of Pigouvian taxes in general" means you are either ignorant or a blind market fundamentalist.
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Still treating the symptoms, and not the problem itself. Are you saying that we can't stop such pollution? Yes, you are, and that is false. We can. But, let's just tax the rain instead? Either you are ignorant, or a blind social engineer attempting to control something you yourself claim can't be controlled.
 
StillBallin75 said:
You can disagree with how a specific Pigouvian tax is implemented, or you can disagree with the necessity of a specific tax, but saying "I don't agree with the idea of Pigouvian taxes in general" means you are either ignorant or a blind market fundamentalist.
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I can disagree with whatever I feel like disagreeing with as long as long it's logical to do so. Yes, I do not believe in the government meddling in the market to get the results in desires no matter the harm being done. It's one thing when we are talking about protecting the rights of people from business activities, but I will never agree with ideas that push forward the governments solution to the problems facing business or putting forth taxes to lower demand of certain market activities. Sorry, but some of us do not feel the government has any business directing the market where it wants it to go.
 
polgara said:
Well, now you've done it! I'm suddenly hungry for steamed crab! Darn you anyway, cause I live in NE Ohio, and it just doesn't taste the same here, even with the beer and paper towels thrown in...although that certainly doesn't hurt! :lamo:
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Let us know when you get that crab shack built! I'll stop by on my way to Florida...Hey, if you can't depend on your fellow posters, what's the use in even trying...
 
polgara said:
Let us know when you get that crab shack built! I'll stop by on my way to Florida...Hey, if you can't depend on your fellow posters, what's the use in even trying...
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Oh absolutely! We'd love to have you...Heck, even we don't have a commercial business going, we still buy our own live crabs here, and steam them ourselves, then hang at the poolside, eat crab, drink beer, and enjoy....
 
Henrin said:
You explained it alright, but it still came out sounding stupid.
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Then if you are interested in having a real discussion/debate, it is incumbent upon you to stop being lazy and point out where and how exactly it was stupid. The site is called DEBATE politics, not "stay on my lazy ass and call other people's argument stupid without giving a real argument of my own."

So let's tax rain!
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More laziness and failure of reading comprehension. The tax is based on a calculation of how much runoff surface (in square feet) exists on each property. How much runoff a specific property produces is directly proportional to its contribution to polluting the Chesapeake Bay watershed.

I understand it fine and I like it or not I made no mistake. You just support the government engineering the market and society as a whole to it's own desires by taxing people.
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No, I see a necessity for government to get involved because I recognize the reality that the market mechanism by itself doesn't always produce the best outcomes. That social costs are not always included in market costs, something that based on your posting history you clearly fail to grasp.
 
Henrin said:
I can disagree with whatever I feel like disagreeing with as long as long it's logical to do so. Yes, I do not believe in the government meddling in the market to get the results in desires no matter the harm being done. It's one thing when we are talking about protecting the rights of people from business activities, but I will never agree with ideas that push forward the governments solution to the problems facing business or putting forth taxes to lower demand of certain market activities. Sorry, but some of us do not feel the government has any business directing the market where it wants it to go.
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You're not being logical. You're being an ideologue.
 
Lachean said:
That is exactly what we thought
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From a number of posts it was pretty apparent that people were confused due to the misleading and biased blog post title and led to believe that this is actually a tax on rain. It is not.

and exactly WHY its stupid.
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It'd be nice if you could elaborate.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Then if you are interested in having a real discussion/debate, it is incumbent upon you to stop being lazy and point out where and how exactly it was stupid. The site is called DEBATE politics, not "stay on my lazy ass and call other people's argument stupid without giving a real argument of my own."
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I already did. Read my posts in the thread.


More laziness and failure of reading comprehension. The tax is based on a calculation of how much runoff surface (in square feet) exists on each property. How much runoff a specific property produces is directly proportional to its contribution to polluting the Chesapeake Bay watershed.
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I understand it fine. You're treating the runoff caused by rain to be the problem, when the fact remains its the pollutant that is the problem, not the runoff. There is no point in talking to someone that can't see that.

No, I see a necessity for government to get involved because I recognize the reality that the market mechanism by itself doesn't always produce the best outcomes. That social costs are not always included in market costs, something that based on your posting history you clearly fail to grasp.
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Oh so its social costs that matter to you and not so much liberty. Thanks for revealing the obvious. You can agree with taxing personal decisions if you want due to social costs, but I will not agree with such nonsense.
 
StillBallin75 said:
You're not being logical. You're being an ideologue.
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No, there is no logic behind the idea that people are better off with the government protecting the people against themselves by punishing them for behavior the government doesn't agree with. Just like the people are not better off by the government subsidizing market activity so that people do what the government wants them to do.
 
j-mac said:
Oh absolutely! We'd love to have you...Heck, even we don't have a commercial business going, we still buy our own live crabs here, and steam them ourselves, then hang at the poolside, eat crab, drink beer, and enjoy....
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Some people just know how to live the good life... :)
 
Henrin said:
I already did. Read my posts in the thread.




I understand it fine. You're treating the runoff caused by rain to be the problem, when the fact remains its the pollutant that is the problem, not the runoff. There is no point in talking to someone that can't see that.
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Actually, it's both. The pollutant itself is a problem, but it's effect would be far less magnified if surface runoff didn't concentrate its effects. Not to mention that even in the absence of pollution, runoff contributes to erosion and deposition.

Oh so its social costs that matter to you and not so much liberty. Thanks for revealing the obvious. You can agree with taxing personal decisions if you want due to social costs, but I will not agree with such nonsense.
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It's only nonsense to you because my conception of "liberty" isn't so narrow as to only include freedom from government coercion, but also the realization that infringements on freedom can occur from private entities as well, market activity often being one of them.
 
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