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Senate overcomes filibuster, votes to open debate on gun bill

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iguanaman

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Washington (CNN) - The U.S. Senate voted Thursday to overcome a Republican-led filibuster against tougher gun laws, clearing the way for a major congressional debate on a package of proposals sought by President Barack Obama in the aftermath of the Connecticut school massacre.

The procedural vote followed a breakthrough by Sens. Joe Manchin, D-West Virginia, and Pat Toomey, R-Pennsylvania, on broadening background checks to include private purchases at gun shows and on the Internet.
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After 20 years we will finally be getting a vote on significant gun legislation. The NRA juggernaut is weakening and we will hear from the people instead.
 
iguanaman said:
After 20 years we will finally be getting a vote on significant gun legislation. The NRA juggernaut is weakening and we will hear from the people instead.
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Eye roll**

The "people" are a bunch of emotional children.
 
iguanaman said:
After 20 years we will finally be getting a vote on significant gun legislation. The NRA juggernaut is weakening and we will hear from the people instead.
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Yep. Wait and see if demorats from red states are all onboard the national gun registration train. ;)
 
iguanaman said:
After 20 years we will finally be getting a vote on significant gun legislation. The NRA juggernaut is weakening and we will hear from the people instead.
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Revel in your confidence now, 1996 and 2000 will happen again. Your lot are foolish for ignoring the warning of Bill Clinton.

But please, celebrate the fight against our rights more and may posterity forget you were our countryman.
 
stonewall50 said:
Eye roll**

The "people" are a bunch of emotional children.
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I think our gun laws do need to be discussed, and here is how I would like to see it turn out:

1) Limiting availability of certain types of weapons? NO!! Whatever guns are made illegal, it won't stop the criminals from continuing to obtain them. So why shouldn't law abiding Americans have the same access to them, LEGALLY? Therefore, I am against any form of gun control. I do not see what the problem is with those who call themselves Liberal here.

2) Background checks - YES!! After all, we do want to make it harder for crazies and criminals to obtain guns, and provide very stiff penalties to those who obtain guns illegally. I am very much in favor of background checks. Does this stance go along with the Second Amendment? Of course it does. Criminals and insane people do not have Second Amendment rights. It's very much like the states who take away voting rights of criminals. Felons, especially violent felons, should not be allowed to own firearms. Period. I don't see what the problem is with people who call themselves Conservative here.
 
stonewall50 said:
Eye roll**

The "people" are a bunch of emotional children.
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I'm afraid the emotional children are all on the gun side. Going ballistic because you might need a background check if you buy guns on the internet or at gun shows is pretty infantile I fact. Use you head about this one for a change.
 
danarhea said:
Criminals and insane people do not have Second Amendment rights.
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Where, in the Constitution, is there any language which allows government any authority to pick and choose who is or is not entitled to any of the rights affirmed in the Bill of Rights?


danarhea said:
It's very much like the states who take away voting rights of criminals. Felons, especially violent felons, should not be allowed to own firearms. Period. I don't see what the problem is with people who call themselves Conservative here.
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The problem is that government has proven that any power that we allow it to claim to selectively discriminate against any of us by denying us any of our basic Constitutional rights will be outrageously abused. The power that you allow it now to broadly discriminate against “criminals” or the “insane” without requiring proper due process in each individual case will be expanded, eventually. to include you and me under these terms.

Those who are truly too dangerous to be allowed their rights need to be kept in prisons, mental hospitals, or other appropriate institutions. This is the only way to prevent them from harming or endangering others. Anything else only endangers everyone's freedom, for only a false illusion of safety.
 
danarhea said:
I think our gun laws do need to be discussed, and here is how I would like to see it turn out:

1) Limiting availability of certain types of weapons? NO!! Whatever guns are made illegal, it won't stop the criminals from continuing to obtain them. So why shouldn't law abiding Americans have the same access to them, LEGALLY? Therefore, I am against any form of gun control. I do not see what the problem is with those who call themselves Liberal here.

2) Background checks - YES!! After all, we do want to make it harder for crazies and criminals to obtain guns, and provide very stiff penalties to those who obtain guns illegally. I am very much in favor of background checks. Does this stance go along with the Second Amendment? Of course it does. Criminals and insane people do not have Second Amendment rights. It's very much like the states who take away voting rights of criminals. Felons, especially violent felons, should not be allowed to own firearms. Period. I don't see what the problem is with people who call themselves Conservative here.
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This is pretty much how i feel (except there are certain firearms that the public shouldn't have access to-i.e rocket launchers) the only trouble is determining what makes a person "insane" or "crazy". In psychology there is no definition for insane or crazy, so the first thing to be discussed is finding an objective definition for insane. The next thing to be discussed is how to determine if a person meets that definition when conducting a background check; disorders such as schizophrenia, that would probably fall under the definition of insane, could go for decades without being discovered in a person. So for most incidences of an "insane" person going on a shooting spree, no one could have predicted that they were insane until the incident happens.

Its pretty complex, probably why congress and the senate haven't tried to discuss it yet.
 
iguanaman said:
After 20 years we will finally be getting a vote on significant gun legislation. The NRA juggernaut is weakening and we will hear from the people instead.
Click to expand...

Signifcant gun legislation happened in 1964. This is just theater. It won't pass the House anyway.
 
We have background checks now. You can't leave a gun store with your gun without permission of the ATF. The ATF can do whatever checks it wants to do without any new laws.
 
Bullshark said:
This is pretty much how i feel (except there are certain firearms that the public shouldn't have access to-i.e rocket launchers) the only trouble is determining what makes a person "insane" or "crazy". In psychology there is no definition for insane or crazy, so the first thing to be discussed is finding an objective definition for insane. The next thing to be discussed is how to determine if a person meets that definition when conducting a background check; disorders such as schizophrenia, that would probably fall under the definition of insane, could go for decades without being discovered in a person. So for most incidences of an "insane" person going on a shooting spree, no one could have predicted that they were insane until the incident happens.

Its pretty complex, probably why congress and the senate haven't tried to discuss it yet.
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Preventing those who have already been in the mental health system from legally obtaining guns would be easy. Those who have never been in the system would still get access to them. It's the best we can do without going medieval on the Bill of Rights. But, we should also realize that the world is not a Utopia. Crap will happen, even under the best of circumstances. We will never be able to make things perfect. There will still be people hurting others. All we can do is tamp it down a little bit. Going further than that means America no longer exists.
 
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iguanaman said:
I'm afraid the emotional children are all on the gun side. Going ballistic because you might need a background check if you buy guns on the internet or at gun shows is pretty infantile I fact. Use you head about this one for a change.
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Care to explain how one can buy a gun off the internet now without a background check ??
 
Gill said:
Care to explain how one can buy a gun off the internet now without a background check ??
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How about armslist.com?


TERMS OF USE
I.I am 18 years of age or older.
II.I understand that ARMSLIST DOES NOT become involved in transactions between parties and does not certify, investigate, or in any way guarantee the legal capacity of any party to transact.
III.I am responsible for obeying all applicable enforcement mechanisms, including, but not limited to federal, state, municipal, and tribal statutes, rules, regulations, ordinances, and judicial decisions, including compliance with all applicable licensing requirements.
IV.I will not use Armslist.com for any illegal purpose.
V.If I am at all unsure about firearm sales or transfers, I will contact the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosive at 1-800-ATF-GUNS and visit the ATF website at Home | ATF.
VI.I will help to ensure the overall openness and accessibility of the site to all users through a peer-review process. I understand that failure to adhere to proper internet protocol and etiquette may result in removal of my listings or more severe corrective action.
VII.ARMSLIST may edit or remove information, including my listings, from the site without notice.
VIII.If I violate these terms, ARMSLIST may permanently remove me from the site or, depending on the nature and severity of the violation, avail itself of such remedies as are prescribed by law. Whilst ARMSLIST ABSOLUTELY BELIEVES AND CHAMPIONS "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms," ARMSLIST will comply with federal, state, municipal, and tribal law enforcement entities pursuant to the Constitution of the United States and Due Process of Law.
IX.I take responsibility for my actions whilst using Armslist.com. I also take responsibility for any and all of my actions related to, or resulting from, my use of Armslist.com. Further, I am solely responsible for any and all consequences of such my actions.
X.I indemnify and hold harmless ARMSLIST and all of its owners, directors, officers, employees, and agents for any and all loss, harm, damage, costs, liability, and expense caused to them, whether intentionally or unintentionally, by my use of Armslist.com, including but not limited to direct or indirect results of violations of any and all applicable laws.
XI.ARMSLIST may make changes to these terms at any time without notifying me. As a user, I am solely responsible for reading the most current version of the terms and conditions.
XII.By clicking "I agree," I electronically represent ("sign") that I agree to the above terms and further certify that I have read, and completely agree, to be legally bound by the ARMSLIST Terms of Use
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iguanaman said:
After 20 years we will finally be getting a vote on significant gun legislation. The NRA juggernaut is weakening and we will hear from the people instead.
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I think this is important for two reasons. First it makes it possible the legislation could actually pass. Second, if it doesn't pass we have a the record of who voted against it to use in the upcoming election in 2014.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Where, in the Constitution, is there any language which allows government any authority to pick and choose who is or is not entitled to any of the rights affirmed in the Bill of Rights? .
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Again with that nonsense. There is no need in the amendment for a specific exclusion of minor children, felons OR the insane. It is called settled law and it has been on the books for years. Talk about living in the past.
 
iguanaman said:
How about armslist.com?
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That is a transaction between individuals.

Even so, it would be impossible to buy a gun from another individual on this site unless you travel to pick the gun up. If you ship it, it has to go to a dealer where a background check will be required. In that case, it is no different than buying one through a classified in the local newspaper.
 
Gill said:
That is a transaction between individuals.

Even so, it would be impossible to buy a gun from another individual on this site unless you travel to pick the gun up. If you ship it, it has to go to a dealer where a background check will be required. In that case, it is no different than buying one through a classified in the local newspaper.
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You act like picking a gun up from a seller is difficult or something. Finding a gun you want nearby and drive there. You now bought a gun thru the internet with no background check. It's all the rage now.
 
danarhea said:
I think our gun laws do need to be discussed, and here is how I would like to see it turn out:

1) Limiting availability of certain types of weapons? NO!! Whatever guns are made illegal, it won't stop the criminals from continuing to obtain them. So why shouldn't law abiding Americans have the same access to them, LEGALLY? Therefore, I am against any form of gun control. I do not see what the problem is with those who call themselves Liberal here.
Click to expand...

How far up the chain of firepower does this concept apply? Grenade launchers? Stinger missiles? Tanks?

2) Background checks - YES!! After all, we do want to make it harder for crazies and criminals to obtain guns, and provide very stiff penalties to those who obtain guns illegally. I am very much in favor of background checks. Does this stance go along with the Second Amendment? Of course it does. Criminals and insane people do not have Second Amendment rights. It's very much like the states who take away voting rights of criminals. Felons, especially violent felons, should not be allowed to own firearms. Period. I don't see what the problem is with people who call themselves Conservative here.
Click to expand...

But gun registration caused hitler!!!!1
 
iguanaman said:
You act like picking a gun up from a seller is difficult or something. Finding a gun you want nearby and drive there. You now bought a gun thru the internet with no background check. It's all the rage now.
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How is that different than buying one listed in a classified from our local libearl newspaper?
 
Gill said:
That is a transaction between individuals.

Even so, it would be impossible to buy a gun from another individual on this site unless you travel to pick the gun up. If you ship it, it has to go to a dealer where a background check will be required. In that case, it is no different than buying one through a classified in the local newspaper.
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In state sales. No background check. No shipping. No dealer involved
 
How background checks might be used for internet sales by private sellers:



Gun sales without background check easy on Internet, mayors group says

"The Internet has become a convenient marketplace for illegal gun sales.

That's the conclusion of an undercover investigation commissioned by New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg's office into online gun sales on 10 websites in 14 states, including Ohio."

"Mayors of more than 50 Ohio cities, including Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati, belong to the coalition, which supports a bill in Congress to close a loophole that allows private gun sales without background checks."

"The act would require all gun sellers, licensed or unlicensed, to determine if a buyer is legally able to purchase a gun, Glaze said.

One way would be to request a buyer to present a gun permit that required a background check within the previous five years or to have a licensed gun dealer or the police perform a background check on the buyer.

Consequently, if police recover a gun used in a crime and find that previous owner had not taken those steps, he could face prosecution for a misdemeanor."

Gun sales without background check easy on Internet, mayors group says
 
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