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Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequester.

Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

Profits are what are required to keep a business functioning. If a 2 percent reduction in Medicare cuts into the margin enough that it means that 33 percent of patients cannot be seen without running the clinic into bankruptcy (see OP), then, well, yeah. Your choice is one third or three thirds.

i would suggest that medicare patients are a drag on profits and using the "sequester BS" is an easy way to shed less profitable patients, medicare patients..
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

Because it was not thought through and Obama never thought it would pass the house. Some 750,00 jobs will be lost and that is not good for this fragile economy. Plus alot of really poor people will be hurt. I'm not opposed to cutting spending but this was ridiculous IMO

Really? Obama was just playing games with the lives of the American people? Gee, that sounds like a really mature, adult, serious man occupying the White House. I can't imagine why you voted to reelect such a loser.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

Because it was not thought through and
Obama never thought it would pass
the house. Some 750,00 jobs will be lost and that is not good for this fragile economy. Plus alot of really poor people will be hurt. I'm not opposed to cutting spending but this was ridiculous IMO

The GOP gave him a chance to target non-essential programs

But BO needed to demagogue the issue instead
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

i would suggest that medicare patients are a drag on profits and using the "sequester BS" is an easy way to shed less profitable patients, medicare patients..

If those patients couldn't be served at cost before, then they would already likely have not been. You don't shed profitable patients; and so when Medicare reductions in reimbursements make patients unprofitable, they take away those patients access to care. There is no such thing as a free lunch, no matter how much we may wish to legislate ourselves one.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

it would be more fair to say Obama over-estimated the congress
sequestration was put forth as a proposal that would be so abhorrent the congress would never allow it to occur
but they did
and now medicare is faced with a shortfall of funds to provide the care our citizens require
so, congress did not pass a budget and you lay the blame on Obama. weird

I don't think many are concerned with what's fair. Throwing the blame on one side will be the game now.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

If those patients couldn't be served at cost before, then they would already likely have not been. You don't shed profitable patients; and so when Medicare reductions in reimbursements make patients unprofitable, they take away those patients access to care. There is no such thing as a free lunch, no matter how much we may wish to legislate ourselves one.

these clinics don't lack patients.

if they could get rid of all their medicare/medicaid patients, they could make alot more money by taking only patients with insurance.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

these clinics don't lack patients.

if they could get rid of all their medicare/medicaid patients, they could make alot more money.

Of course, the Medicare patient will be screwed.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

If those patients couldn't be served at cost before, then they would already likely have not been. You don't shed profitable patients; and so when Medicare reductions in reimbursements make patients unprofitable, they take away those patients access to care. There is no such thing as a free lunch, no matter how much we may wish to legislate ourselves one.

Illness as profit has always struck me as wrong.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

Illness as profit has always struck me as wrong.

Then your sentiment is getting in the way of your rationality. One could just as easily say that hunger as profit is wrong. Then one could look at the result of nationalizing food distribution, and perhaps realize that adopting a system that ill-serves its' people is perhaps more wrong :).

The beauty of trade (and much-maligned 'profit') is that it turns of mankinds' self-interest into the service of others. Take away that mechanism, and mankind does not cease being self-interested, he just ceases serving others.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

It was Obama's plan. Jesus.



Sperling is the President's Chief Economic Advisor.

White House Admits (Third Time) President Obama Fibbed On Sequester - Forbes

Yes. It was Obama's plan...

...to force Congress to quit being so partisan and doing some real budget balancing.

And Congress didn't have to do it.

And Obama can't force Congress to compromise. Separation of powers and all that.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

these clinics don't lack patients.

if they could get rid of all their medicare/medicaid patients, they could make alot more money by taking only patients with insurance.

That is not true, as demonstrated by the fact that they have not done so. :)

I would urge you to re-read the OP:

...After an emergency meeting Tuesday, Vacirca’s clinics decided that they would no longer see one-third of their 16,000 Medicare patients.
“A lot of us are in disbelief that this is happening,” he said. “It’s a choice between seeing these patients and staying in business....

If you want to get upset, get upset at the idiots in Washington who thought they could vote themselves a free lunch, and that one would thus magically appear. This is their fault, not the providers.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

Then your sentiment is getting in the way of your rationality. One could just as easily say that hunger as profit is wrong. Then one could look at the result of nationalizing food distribution, and perhaps realize that adopting a system that ill-serves its' people is perhaps more wrong :).

The beauty of trade is that it turns of mankinds' self-interest into the service of others. Take away that mechanism, and mankind does not cease being self-interested, he just ceases serving others.

No, I don't think so. Hunger is quite different. We help with food all the time. We have shelters and soup kitchens, and can feed rather cheaply. But we would say let em starve.

Medicine deals with core of a person, often life and death, and puts too much power and advantage in the hands of the physician. The costs are too high, and can't really be carried by most. And illness is often communicable, thus creating public health concerns. We do it all ass backwards here.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

Of course, the Medicare patient will be screwed.

that's what this company seems to be doing when it comes to their medicare patients and are using the sequester as an excuse to do so.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

that's what this company seems to be doing when it comes to their medicare patients and are using the sequester as an excuse to do so.

Yes, they are. On that we agree.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

That is not true, as demonstrated by the fact that they have not done so. :)

I would urge you to re-read the OP:



If you want to get upset, get upset at the idiots in Washington who thought they could vote themselves a free lunch, and that one would thus magically appear. This is their fault, not the providers.

if the medicare cut is 2-3%, then why are they cutting 33% of their medicare patients?

again, this company is using the sequester as an excuse to dump some of it's medicare patients.

they're lying about the idea they could out of business!!
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

Link 1 states that economic growth was negative in the first quarter when Bush entered office. I guess that would make it true.

Link 2. I agree Bush's spending was a huge problem. 9/11 had a lot to do with why we went to war. I believe it was neccessary. I dont think we will reach agreement on this. Original article rather than stupid blog crap not worth linking to because its partisan drivel:
White House projects record deficit for 2009 - CNN.com

Link 3 gvies the original link as a Houston Chronicle article and is a dead link. However, Clinton's reticence for enforcing sanctions and and inability to ensure technology embargoes was fairly well known and could not have helped matters.

Link 4 Dude. BUSH WASNT IN OFFICE YET! June 23, 2000? Bush was placing blame on the guy in office at the time, why the hell would Bush take blame when he wasnt President yet. Nice self own there.

It wasn't a self own. It was all you.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

Yes, they are. On that we agree.

and btw, i'd say the op that started this thread was a great PR story for the obama team.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

and btw, i'd say the op that started this thread was a great PR story for the obama team.

**** happens. It will take a life of its own sooner or later.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

if the medicare cut is 2-3%, then why are they cutting 33% of their medicare patients?

Because the cut is focused on the reimbursement schedule, which makes those patients impossible to treat at cost.

As an example, let us say that one of these cancer treatments costs the doctor $60 per dose, and that it then costs him $20 to store and another $20 to process the patient, the administration, and disperse the medication. Medicare just cut the reimbursement for this medication from $100 (allowing him a 1 dollar profit) to $95 (forcing him to take a loss); meaning that he can no longer afford to purchase, store, and disperse this medication to the patients who need it.

This is precisely what was predicted would happen when we cut the reimbursement schedule. Supporters poo-poo'd the notion, insisting that providers would be able to endlessly, magically, produce medical care at lower costs; that the rules of supply and demand somehow fantastically did not apply to medicine. You recall Democrats insisting that evil Republicans cut medicare for patients, but that they just cut Medicare for providers? :lol: and that these were somehow not the same thing?

They were wrong. And this is just the beginning :)

But think about it, if the clinic could still see Medicare Patients at a profit, then why would they turn out free money, and send that to their competition? That's like arguing that McDonalds should stop selling Hamburgers because its' profit margin is so much higher on its' drinks.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

that's what this company seems to be doing when it comes to their medicare patients and are using the sequester as an excuse to do so.

Yes, they are. On that we agree.

What blithering nut-jobbery. Medical clinics go into business to screw medicare patients? When the Federal Government is 50 cents of every medical dollar spent?

:roll: Yeah. And Wal-Mart is in business to help prop up the Mom and Pops. Microsoft wants to convince everyone to unplug and go live a natural life unencumbered by electricity.

Conspiracy claims ("Evil-doin medical docter folks are all out to git the Medicare patients!") ill-become the both of you.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

What blithering nut-jobbery. Medical clinics go into business to screw medicare patients? When the Federal Government is 50 cents of every medical dollar spent?

:roll: Yeah. And Wal-Mart is in business to help prop up the Mom and Pops. Microsoft wants to convince everyone to unplug and go live a natural life unencumbered by electricity.

Conspiracy claims ("Evil-doin medical docter folks are all out to git the Medicare patients!") ill-become the both of you.

Again, illness is not a commodity. Your child's life isn't some you negotiate. And stop with the hyperbole. No one called doctors evil. The system is just messed up. Seeing the care of the ill as a business is flawed to start with. Even if doctors made only what Medicare paid for all their patients, they would still do so well as to justify going into the field.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

Again, illness is not a commodity.

That's correct. Health Care is a good or service. The illness itself is not.

Your child's life isn't some you negotiate. And stop with the hyperbole.

I find it really entertaining that you apparently do not see the irony with putting these two sentences back to back.

No one called doctors evil.

No, they simply suggested that doctors were looking for a way to screw over old people, and willing to take any excuse available to do so. So not that they were evil, simply that they did evil - a sentiment which you, to your embarrassment, agreed with.

The system is just messed up.

The system is imperfect, largely due to our over-reliance on third party payment mechanisms which introduce needless amounts of complexity and remove incentives to improve our delivery processes.

Seeing the care of the ill as a business is flawed to start with.

Why? What is wrong with wanting to cure the sick, heal the lame, or tend to the wounded for a living?

Even if doctors made only what Medicare paid for all their patients, they would still do so well as to justify going into the field.

Wrong. Doctors come into their fields with massive student loans and then spend massive amounts on administrative costs and malpractice insurance. One of my college roomates had a father who was an OB-GYN. He quit medicine when malpractice costs for his state rose to $250,000 a year. A clinic in Tennessee near where I used to live refuses to take insurance (third party payments), government or otherwise, and instead deals directly with the patient for cash. The cost of their procedures is 1/2 to 1/3 what it costs at other facilities, just based off of the removal of the paperwork alone. Medicares' reduced payment schedule means that doctors increasingly cannot afford to see Medicare patients - the same thing has been happening in Medicaid for some time. For a long time, providers have made up some of the losses by charging the rest of us more; but for the medicines that are overwhelmingly purchased by the elderly, and thus under the reduced schedules? That's not an option.

Welcome to the Brave New World, Boo, where Obamacares' Free Lunch fails to materialize and the elderly pay the heaviest price for our desire to stamp our feet and insist that we can ignore reality when we find it inconvenient.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

That's correct. Health Care is a good or service. The illness itself is not.



I find it really entertaining that you apparently do not see the irony with putting these two sentences back to back.



No, they simply suggested that doctors were looking for a way to screw over old people, and willing to take any excuse available to do so. So not that they were evil, simply that they did evil - a sentiment which you, to your embarrassment, agreed with.



The system is imperfect, largely due to our over-reliance on third party payment mechanisms which introduce needless amounts of complexity and remove incentives to improve our delivery processes.



Why? What is wrong with wanting to cure the sick, heal the lame, or tend to the wounded for a living?



Wrong. Doctors come into their fields with massive student loans and then spend massive amounts on administrative costs and malpractice insurance. One of my college roomates had a father who was an OB-GYN. He quit medicine when malpractice costs for his state rose to $250,000 a year. A clinic in Tennessee near where I used to live refuses to take insurance (third party payments), government or otherwise, and instead deals directly with the patient for cash. The cost of their procedures is 1/2 to 1/3 what it costs at other facilities, just based off of the removal of the paperwork alone. Medicares' reduced payment schedule means that doctors increasingly cannot afford to see Medicare patients - the same thing has been happening in Medicaid for some time. For a long time, providers have made up some of the losses by charging the rest of us more; but for the medicines that are overwhelmingly purchased by the elderly, and thus under the reduced schedules? That's not an option.

Welcome to the Brave New World, Boo, where Obamacares' Free Lunch fails to materialize and the elderly pay the heaviest price for our desire to stamp our feet and insist that we can ignore reality when we find it inconvenient.

At best we suggested one company, not all doctors. Their excuse doesn't hold, so yes, that company, a very specific company I putting profit above care, which is screwing them.

And no where did I deny doctors had student loans. That doesn't change what I said. They could still pay those loans and live very, very well on Medicare pay. No one is asking them to live anything but well.

Btw, ob gyn and peds are problem areas, but they don't make up all doctors. You should acknowledge that you're using the extreme to try and resent the whole.

The rest you write is largely nonsense. Current healthcare reform is not what anyone wants, but is was modeled after republican ideas (a mistake), and UHC would be a much better option for a lot of reasons.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest


Why do you waste other people's time of you don't read your own links?
Your first link was correct in that Bush said he inherited a slowed economy from Bill Clinton. He then went on to turn it around.

Your second link is to someone else, your third link is to someone else and your fourth link is from a presidential candidate.

As for the two of you who actually 'like' this, can neither of you read coherently either? You should be embarrassed for yourselves.
 
Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

At best we suggested one company, not all doctors. Their excuse doesn't hold, so yes, that company, a very specific company I putting profit above care, which is screwing them.

That is not at all what was charged. What was charged was that they were looking for ways to screw over Medicare patients and using sequestration as an excuse to do so. That these patients, were, in fact, still profitable, and that the companies in question were willing to A) lie about that and B) give up their own profits, apparently just so that they could then have the pleasure of denying care to Medicare patients. :roll: Utter horse-hockey.

As for profit - without profit, clinics cannot serve 3/3rds of patients. Doctors know enough math to realize that if you can still serve 2/3rds, that is more than 0/3rds, an insight that appears to have escaped (or, more likely, simply been been refused by) some on this thread.

And no where did I deny doctors had student loans. That doesn't change what I said. They could still pay those loans and live very, very well on Medicare pay. No one is asking them to live anything but well.

Btw, ob gyn and peds are problem areas, but they don't make up all doctors. You should acknowledge that you're using the extreme to try and resent the whole.

Malpractice and administrative costs are and remain huge. I would agree that OB-GYN's are probably among the most expensive to ensure, but that was the one example I had seen first-hand. The point remains the same. If a Doctor is "profiting" $330K a year, but $125K goes to malpractice, $100K goes to administrative costs, and $20K goes to student loans, then he's actually only bringing in $85K a year. Cut his "profit" by a third (as in the example under discussion) to $220K a year, and he's in quite a pickle.

The refusal on the part of those who wish to simply cut reimbursement schedules to accept that doctors do not have a magic pile of never-ending money from which they can make good the resultant losses of providing care is now starting to prove disastrous for our elderly. There is, never has been, and never will be, such a thing as a free lunch, and when we make plans which assume its' appearance, we shouldn't be surprised when those plans go badly. This loss of coverage was entirely predictable, and thus widely predicted.

The rest you write is largely nonsense. Current healthcare reform is not what anyone wants

Really? You may want to write the Administration about that. They seemed quite interested in getting it passed, oh, a couple of years back. Bragged about all the awesome things it would do (nobody who liked their insurance would lose it, premiums would go down by $2500 for a family, thousands of jobs would be created, et. al.)
 
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