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U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%[W: 831]

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
Looks like a very good climb from 2003-2008 which is basically what I stated. It does seem that far too many believe Bush was President only for 2008 and ignore what was generated from 2003-2008
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GOOD GRIEF, those gains were all given back...WITHIN HIS PRESIDENCY. You ignore the losses when defending Bush, you realize them when when talking about Obama.

Your partisanship is stunning.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Kushinator;1061697795]It is not about an individual; overall, real wealth has yet to recover!
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Your opinion noted, my wealth declined on paper but since I didn't sell any assets how did that hurt me and yes it is about the individual, individuals make up the whole.



This is false, especially when we adjust for inflation (purchasing power).
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What inflation? we have record low interest rates showing zero inflation and that is going to happen when you economic policies that discourage economic growth.



And it lead to the great loss in net wealth since the Great Depression. Imagine that!
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Again, I already told you how much wealth I lost, how much did you lose?



You are referring to negative externalities of deregulation and low taxes, i.e. the spillover effects onto millions of individuals due to no fault of their own.
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Only if you believe there is no such thing as personal responsibility for buying a house and signing for a variable interest rate that they knew they couldn't afford is no fault of the individual



Europe is currently in recession due to a decrease (minor at that) in government spending. It has now spilled over into China as lagging demand out of the Eurozone has led to a decline in Chinese exports. Has China's Economy Hit a ‘Dead End’?
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Exactly as the European people have become dependent on the govt. due to their cradle to grave mentality and lack of personal responsiblity. The govt has run out of money to fund those programs and the European people are having a real problem due to the drop in govt. spending. Socialism always fails when it runs out of other peoples' money to spend.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Gimmesometruth said:
GOOD GRIEF, those gains were all given back. You ignore the losses when defending Bush, you realize them when when talking about Obama.

Your partisanship is stunning.
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Guess I should thank God for not losing all my wealth. My concern is your economic ignorance, not my partisanship. I learned personal responsiblity a long time ago and don't blame someone else when I make bad choices.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
Looks like a very good climb from 2003-2008 which is basically what I stated. It does seem that far too many believe Bush was President only for 2008 and ignore what was generated from 2003-2008
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Who cares if it was a good climb for a short period? It was nearly wiped out by 2009! As stated, nothing like this has happened since the Great Depression. There are no positives!
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
Your opinion noted, my wealth declined on paper but since I didn't sell any assets how did that hurt me and yes it is about the individual, individuals make up the whole.
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You are not the whole, that is the point. Your attitude is that since it did not effect me, it has not effected anyone else. This is blindness to reality mixed with a total void of empathy.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
Guess I should thank God for not losing all my wealth. My concern is your economic ignorance, not my partisanship. I learned personal responsiblity a long time ago and don't blame someone else when I make bad choices.
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What you do is to ignore the loss and blame individuals for getting caught out in a bubble. You still refuse to accept the bubbles' aftermath, the massive loss of wealth extended into income losses, further compounding the effects of wealth loss.

Stop defending the bubble.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Kushinator said:
Who cares if it was a good climb for a short period? It was nearly wiped out by 2009! As stated, nothing like this has happened since the Great Depression. There are no positives!
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Patience isnt a strong suit for many and those that hung on did quite well but the instant gratification crowd doesn't understand that. The problem was we had zero leadership from 2009 to the present which has made things worse. Bush was a lame duck but did implement TARP which some economists claim saved the economy. I didn't support TARP because I believe you don't reward bad behavior and it was bad behavior that caused the recession of 2007-09
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Gimmesometruth said:
You are not the whole, that is the point. Your attitude is that since it did not effect me, it has not effected anyone else. This is blindness to reality mixed with a total void of empathy.
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I asked you but you never answered as to how the recession affected you. My bet is very little and there were millions just like US which is why the 81-82 recession was worse, it affected more people. The loss of wealth wasn't as great because there wasn't that much to lose but it was also good leadership that prevented that from happening. We have zero leadership right now and you continue to support that.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Gimmesometruth said:
What you do is to ignore the loss and blame individuals for getting caught out in a bubble. You still refuse to accept the bubbles' aftermath, the massive loss of wealth extended into income losses, further compounding the effects of wealth loss.

Stop defending the bubble.
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I blame individuals for making bad choices and then expecting someone else to bail them out.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
Your opinion noted, my wealth declined on paper but since I didn't sell any assets how did that hurt me and yes it is about the individual, individuals make up the whole.
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No opinion involved, it was simply a factual statement you fail to understand in its entirety.

What inflation? we have record low interest rates showing zero inflation and that is going to happen when you economic policies that discourage economic growth.
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This inflation:
fredgraph.png


Your lack of knowledge regarding inflation rate is noted.

Again, I already told you how much wealth I lost, how much did you lose?
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This discussion is not about individuals. Red herrings have no place in this discussion.

Only if you believe there is no such thing as personal responsibility for buying a house and signing for a variable interest rate that they knew they couldn't afford is no fault of the individual
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You are ignoring personal responsibility! Not everyone in the country bought a home they could not afford! In fact, only a very small subset of people were able to bring the entire system to its knees, which is my point! Why do you support the type of system of which very few can negatively impact so many?

Exactly as the European people have become dependent on the govt. due to their cradle to grave mentality and lack of personal responsiblity. The govt has run out of money to fund those programs and the European people are having a real problem due to the drop in govt. spending. Socialism always fails when it runs out of other peoples' money to spend.
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Actually, the socialist leaning countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc...) are doing just fine! You mean the nations that followed neo-liberal economic policy (the U.S., the E.U., Japan, etc....) that are having a tough time. source
Just so we are clear, liberalism ≠ socialism.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
I didn't support TARP because I believe you don't reward bad behavior and it was bad behavior that caused the recession of 2007-09
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BS, you have gone back and forth on that.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Kushinator said:
No opinion involved, it was simply a factual statement you fail to understand in its entirety.



This inflation:
fredgraph.png


Your lack of knowledge regarding inflation rate is noted.



This discussion is not about individuals. Red herrings have no place in this discussion.



You are ignoring personal responsibility! Not everyone in the country bought a home they could not afford! In fact, only a very small subset of people were able to bring the entire system to its knees, which is my point! Why do you support the type of system of which very few can negatively impact so many?



Actually, the socialist leaning countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc...) are doing just fine! You mean the nations that followed neo-liberal economic policy (the U.S., the E.U., Japan, etc....) that are having a tough time. source
Just so we are clear, liberalism ≠ socialism.
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Just to be clear, personal responsibility or lack of it still is the issue that led to the 2007-09 recession and the reality is millions of people weren't hurt by that recession whether or not you buy it or not.

The "too big to fail" mentality IMO was overstated. I would have let the banks fail, period, just like I would have let GM/Chrysler go bankrupt as all we did was reward bad behavior and nothing really has changed.

You give Norway, Sweden, and Denmark too much credit, all small countries where govt. spending is still the largest number in their GDP. Europe has a problem with govt. spending and if you were truly honest you would recognize Govt. spending as the single biggest component of GDP. We are becoming Europe rapidly as Govt. spending in this country has risen rapidly over the past few years. More and more people are dependent on taxpayer assistance and that is causing the debt service increases we have today. Rising interest rates are going to destroy our economy
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Gimmesometruth said:
BS, you have gone back and forth on that.
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Wrong, I have never supported TARP but have stated I understand why many do. You never reward bad behavior in a private sector economy. We are facing the results today of those rewards.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
Patience isnt a strong suit for many and those that hung on did quite well but the instant gratification crowd doesn't understand that.
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Recovering 90% of real wealth after 5 years is "doing quite well"?

The problem was we had zero leadership from 2009 to the present which has made things worse.
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Things are better, not worse!

Bush was a lame duck but did implement TARP which some economists claim saved the economy. I didn't support TARP because I believe you don't reward bad behavior and it was bad behavior that caused the recession of 2007-09
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Bank capitalization was critical in reinstilling confidence in our financial system. The problem is, economic downturns that are caused by a once in a millennium financial crisis take a great deal of time to overcome. You preach patience yet display an epic amount of short-sightedness.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
I asked you but you never answered as to how the recession affected you. My bet is very little and there were millions just like US which is why the 81-82 recession was worse, it affected more people. The loss of wealth wasn't as great because there wasn't that much to lose but it was also good leadership that prevented that from happening. We have zero leadership right now and you continue to support that.
Click to expand...
I am not going to get into AGAIN stating what we lost, not that you would remember anyway because you don't (there is that empathy void). You just cannot help to deny the damage by trying once again in bringing up 81, we did not see anywhere near the loss of household wealth because that was not a wealth bubble, it was an inflation bubble. We did not realize a loss of wealth, we realized a drop in inflation. Apples and oranges.

You more than likely had your house paid off since you were at or near retirement (see, I remember), but for those who had major declines in income, it was not a matter of ARM's, it was more a matter of eating or paying the mortgage on a debt whose value was underwater.
 
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Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
Wrong, I have never supported TARP but have stated I understand why many do. You never reward bad behavior in a private sector economy. We are facing the results today of those rewards.
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BS, you realized that if we let the banks collapse, we would have had a worse recovery.

If you keep on playing this, I swear I'll play the way back machine.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Kushinator;1061697927]Recovering 90% of real wealth after 5 years is "doing quite well"?
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If you haven't lost any wealth what is their to recover?



Things are better, not worse!
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Really? 6 trillion added to the debt, 21 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers, record numbers on poverty, record numbers on food stamps, over 100 million excluding Medicare and SS, on some form of govt. assistance, .4% GDP growth, 143 million working Americans vs 146 million in December 2007, 155 million labor force vs. 153.9 in December 2007 is an improvement?



Bank capitalization was critical in reinstilling confidence in our financial system. The problem is, economic downturns that are caused by a once in a millennium financial crisis take a great deal of time to overcome. You preach patience yet display an epic amount of short-sightedness.
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I recognize that you have never blamed Bush solely for the recession and commend you for that. The problem was we rewarded bad behavior and that behavior hasn't changed. We continue to reward bad behavior with individuals as well giving them assistance for extended periods of time reducing the incentive to go back to work. This country has a 17 trillion dollar debt today, more than our annual GDP and that makes things worse than they were when the recession began
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Gimmesometruth said:
BS, you realized that if we let the banks collapse, we would have had a worse recovery.

If you keep on playing this, I swear I'll play the way back machine.
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No, Just like with the auto industry there were auto companies in no trouble at all and in no need of taxpayer assistance that was the case with banks. They were forced to take TARP money even though they didn't want it. Sometimes it takes tough love to make things better and when you have a debt this time and a growing entitlement society that time was then. It may be too late now.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
Just to be clear, personal responsibility or lack of it still is the issue that led to the 2007-09 recession and the reality is millions of people weren't hurt by that recession whether or not you buy it or not.
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Personal responsibility has absolutely nothing to do with a few people bringing down the U.S. (and global) economy.

The "too big to fail" mentality IMO was overstated. I would have let the banks fail, period, just like I would have let GM/Chrysler go bankrupt as all we did was reward bad behavior and nothing really has changed.
Click to expand...

You wear your lack of understanding of financial crisis on your sleeve. Letting banks fail leads to an unprecedented level of tax payer liability. The FDIC is backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. Had these banks failed, it would have cost taxpayers trillions upon trillions of dollars.

Now, Detroit has now eclipsed 2007 auto sales! American auto manufactures are leaner, stronger, and more efficient than ever.

You give Norway, Sweden, and Denmark too much credit, all small countries where govt. spending is still the largest number in their GDP. Europe has a problem with govt. spending and if you were truly honest you would recognize Govt. spending as the single biggest component of GDP. We are becoming Europe rapidly as Govt. spending in this country has risen rapidly over the past few years. More and more people are dependent on taxpayer assistance and that is causing the debt service increases we have today. Rising interest rates are going to destroy our economy
Click to expand...

Empty talking points will not help you! Socialist nations have not witnessed the economic volatility of those that followed neo-liberal policy. This is simply a fact!

Debt service levels are lower than any other post WWII period.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
If you haven't lost any wealth what is their to recover?
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This is either a lie, or you don't know what you are talking about. The reality:

fredgraph.png


Really? 6 trillion added to the debt, 21 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers, record numbers on poverty, record numbers on food stamps, over 100 million excluding Medicare and SS, on some form of govt. assistance, .4% GDP growth, 143 million working Americans vs 146 million in December 2007, 155 million labor force vs. 153.9 in December 2007 is an improvement?
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It is an improvement from the depths of early 2009, when the economy was shedding jobs in the tune of 600,000+ month over month, trillions of dollars in wealth lost daily, and unprecdented levels of various aid to ensure the private sector did not collapse. So yes, things are better. Are we at pre-recession levels? Nope! But the recovery from a once in a millennium financial crisis require patience. It will not happen over night. It took 5 years to regain 50% of the real wealth lost.

The problem was we rewarded bad behavior and that behavior hasn't changed. We continue to reward bad behavior with individuals as well giving them assistance for extended periods of time reducing the incentive to go back to work. This country has a 17 trillion dollar debt today, more than our annual GDP and that makes things worse than they were when the recession began
Click to expand...

Debt levels of the federal government are not a metric for overall economic health. If we were to employ that same logic, things have been worse off every single year since the late 1960's, when real per capita output was half of what it is today.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
Wrong, I have never supported TARP ......
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Gimmesometruth said:
BS, you realized that if we let the banks collapse, we would have had a worse recovery.

If you keep on playing this, I swear I'll play the way back machine.
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Conservative said:
No....
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Cough.....you did support TARP.....cough

winston53660 said:
I supported Bush's TARP program and I still support saving the capital markets even though it is a bitter pill.
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Conservative said:
As did I at the time and apparently it worked. The stimulus plan on the other hand hasn't.....
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PS.....you skipped over 1440.
 
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Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Kushinator said:
Personal responsibility has absolutely nothing to do with a few people bringing down the U.S. (and global) economy.



You wear your lack of understanding of financial crisis on your sleeve. Letting banks fail leads to an unprecedented level of tax payer liability. The FDIC is backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. Had these banks failed, it would have cost taxpayers trillions upon trillions of dollars.

Now, Detroit has now eclipsed 2007 auto sales! American auto manufactures are leaner, stronger, and more efficient than ever.



Empty talking points will not help you! Socialist nations have not witnessed the economic volatility of those that followed neo-liberal policy. This is simply a fact!

Debt service levels are lower than any other post WWII period.
Click to expand...

I only hope someday I can be half as smart as you THINK you are. I have a better understanding of the private sector economy than you will ever have. Debt service levels are lower today only because of record low interest rates not because the debt is improving.

My lack of understanding is your opinion but my understanding comes from street smarts as well as book smarts unlike many here whose comes from the textbooks. My entire life was spent dealing with people not textbooks. Detroit is being propped up by taxpayer money and incentives to buy autos again funded by the taxpayers.

GM still owes the taxpayers billions so on the surface things look good but the reality is quite different. You call yourself a libertarian? Libertarians do not support massive govt. spending and govt. spending being a large part of any country's GDP. Your false advertising is quite telling all because you cannot admit that you really are a liberal promoting socialist ideology.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Gimmesometruth said:
Cough.....you did support TARP.....cough



PS.....you skipped over 1440.
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That being the case you would have no problem proving it. I believe in the capitalistic economy this country was built on and in that economy businesses succeed and fail on their own. Businesses that are rewarded for bad behavior have no reason to change, just like people who make bad choices and get bailed out will always make those same choices over and over again.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Kushinator said:
This is either a lie, or you don't know what you are talking about. The reality:

fredgraph.png




It is an improvement from the depths of early 2009, when the economy was shedding jobs in the tune of 600,000+ month over month, trillions of dollars in wealth lost daily, and unprecdented levels of various aid to ensure the private sector did not collapse. So yes, things are better. Are we at pre-recession levels? Nope! But the recovery from a once in a millennium financial crisis require patience. It will not happen over night. It took 5 years to regain 50% of the real wealth lost.



Debt levels of the federal government are not a metric for overall economic health. If we were to employ that same logic, things have been worse off every single year since the late 1960's, when real per capita output was half of what it is today.
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What I find quite telling is again how you look at the U-3 number and ignore the U-6 number. The economy still shed more than 600,000 and in fact well over a million in 2010-2011 but those jobs are reflected in the U-6 number not the U-3 number. Liberals love pointing to that job loss but ignore the discouraged, unemployed, and under employed numbers. Bush wasn't in office in 2010-2011 but Obama's economic policies were in place and are in place today, policies that have led to another 500,000 dropping out of the labor force in March after 100,000 more dropped out in February. yes, those people certainly weren't unemployed. were they?
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Gimmesometruth said:
I am not going to get into AGAIN stating what we lost, not that you would remember anyway because you don't (there is that empathy void). You just cannot help to deny the damage by trying once again in bringing up 81, we did not see anywhere near the loss of household wealth because that was not a wealth bubble, it was an inflation bubble. We did not realize a loss of wealth, we realized a drop in inflation. Apples and oranges.

You more than likely had your house paid off since you were at or near retirement (see, I remember), but for those who had major declines in income, it was not a matter of ARM's, it was more a matter of eating or paying the mortgage on a debt whose value was underwater.
Click to expand...

Only someone who doesn't understand the true measurement of a recession could make those claims. You, like far too many, look at the textbook definition of a recession and promote that definition but when asked how this recession affected you, you go silent telling the real story. If you were old enough in 81-82 you would understand true pain which always means an inflation "bubble" hurts more people than a "financial" bubble. It does seem that you have an inability to understand personal finances and economics.
 
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