U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%[W: 831]

DA60 · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Sheik Yerbuti said:
I never said the recession wasn't a factor in it dropping.

I thought you had - both you and another guy were yakking about the same thing. If you did not - I apologize.

As for the middle stuff which I glanced at - the unemployment rate would be well over 9% today if you assume (as the Fed does) that roughly half of the workers that left the work force did so because they (in essence) could not find employment. Fact.

I told you - I am not interested in your spinning, over-emotional reactions or theories.

I am only interested in links to unbiased facts/stats that prove/disprove your point.

Everything else will be ignored.

Maybe you/ some others around here love endless debating of each others theories...I do not.

Especially when it comes to economics.

I am interested in facts/stats from unbiased sources and BRIEF theories - preferably backed up with stats/facts.

Everything else is a waste of time, imo.

Note the unemployment rate for Jan/2009 ...

The BLS stats you are quoting came out after Obama took office.

The official unemployment rate - from the BLS - the day Obama took office was 7.3%.

True or false?

First of all, the unemployment rate is better than it was, not worse as you falsely claim. The housing prices I blame on the housing bubble crash, which is still hurting the economy. There are still 2 houses (that I know of, could be more) which are still in foreclosure since then. I still have no idea why you think food stamp usage defines Obama's success/failure?

Is that a 'yes' or a 'no'?

Have a nice day.

Sheik Yerbuti · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
LOL, nice spin, but this thread is about Obama and the reality that there are 3 million fewer employed today than when the recession began, 1.1 million increase in the labor force in 4 years which during the Bush years was over a million a month, 500,000 people dropped out of the labor force last month, we had .4% GDP Growth last quarter, and over 6 trillion added to the debt. That is the Obama record that has nothing to do with Clinton, Bush or anyone else other than Obama. Your Bush Derangement Syndrome is filled with misinformation and false information

It's unbelievable how you expect Obam to completely revert the effects of the recession in such a short period of time. In just the 18 month period of Bush's Great Recssion, employment fell by 6.6 million jobs. As unemployment is a lagging indicator of the economy, another 2 million jobs were lost in the months following the recession. The job market didn't turn around until 2010. Between 2008 and 2009, a staggering 8.6 million jobs were lost.

And that's only considering lost employment figures. If we look at the under/unemployment/discouraged figures for that period, there were 13,261,380 jobs lost.

The guy you voted for four times gives us a mess which saw 13,261,380 jobs disappear in a 2 year period -- and here you are bitching and moaning because a member of the ideology you openly despise has not been able to fully recover from that in just the 3 years since the job market turned around from Bush's Great Recession.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

DA60 · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Nice spin on my words, but I didn't say half of the work force left voluntarily. :roll:

I said the half who left for reasons other than retiring included people who left voluntarily. That includes (and is not limited to) people who chose disability over working and people who chose school over working.

Try reading comprehension, please.

You typed 'I don't care how many times you repeat it, that half included people who voluntarily left the workforce.'

And I said 'And where is your link to unbiased, factual evidence that a significant number of that 1/2 left the work force voluntarily - that they did not leave primarily because they could not find work?'

I did not say you said half left the workforce. I said a 'significant number of that half'.

How does a 'significant number of that half' equal 1/2?

Does a 'significant number' of 10 people mean 'all ten people' to you?

If so, that is strange math you have there.

Anyways....where is your link to unbiased factual evidence of whatever you are claiming?

Sheik Yerbuti · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

DA60 said:
I told you - I am not interested in your spinning, over-emotional reactions or theories.

I am only interested in links to unbiased facts/stats that prove/disprove your point.

Everything else will be ignored.

Which is hysterical given you're the one spinning.

You're teh one factoring in the LFPR into the U3 rate NOW, but not when Obama started.

Why do you refuse to factor in the LFPR for the U3 rate in January, 2009?

DA60 said:
The BLS stats you are quoting came out after Obama took office.

The official unemployment rate - from the BLS - the day Obama took office was 7.3%.

True or false?

I have not seen you produce any evidence of that. You posted a page which did NOT bring up any data and said I had to "search" for it. I was kind enough to do so, and still came up with a 7.8% unemployment rate for January, 2009.

So where's your proof??

DA60 said:
Is that a 'yes' or a 'no'?

Have a nice day.

Based on my the answer I already provided, yes.

Sheik Yerbuti · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

DA60 said:
Try reading comprehension, please.

You typed 'I don't care how many times you repeat it, that half included people who voluntarily left the workforce.'

And I said 'And where is your link to unbiased, factual evidence that a significant number of that 1/2 left the work force voluntarily - that they did not leave primarily because they could not find work?'

I did not say you said half left the workforce. I said a 'significant number of that half'.

How does a 'significant number of that half' equal 1/2?

Does a 'significant number' of 10 people mean 'all ten people' to you?

If so, that is strange math you have there.

Anyways....where is your link to unbiased factual evidence of whatever you are claiming?

Speaking of reading comprehension, I didn't even say "a significant number" left. I said that half includes ...

As far as a link, there is none as I've already pointed out, nobody tracks that information. So no one knows how many were forced out vs how any left because they chose to do so.

No matter how hard you try, you're always going to be stuck "guessing" the number.

Sheik Yerbuti · Apr 16, 2013

Bronson said:
Fail

As was stated previously President Bush shoulders some blame, but Democrats still share the majority of the blame. Your quoted text even proves my point :lol:

Bush repeatedly tried to push for GSE reform and the Democrats (their campaign coffers filled with GSE campaign donations) claimed there wasn't a problem. Democrats are primarily responsible for the Housing Crash.

Nice try though :2wave:

The fail is all yours. Embrace it. While Democrats opposed it, they did not block it. Republicans own the failure of sending any one of the three bills that were given to Senate leadership, to the Senate floor for a full up/down vote.

DA60 · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Dec/2011: 110,548,000
Mar/2013: 113,330,000
Total: 2,782,000

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

Thank you.

BTW - according to this:

Employment Situation Summary Table A. Household data, seasonally adjusted

In the last 12 months, there are 1.266 million more employed people in America AND the official unemployment rate has fallen from 8.2% to 7.6%.

However, if you take into account the fall in the Labor Force Participation Rate (LFPR) in that time, by 0.5%...AND if you only take half of that number as workers who have left the work force because they (in essence) cannot find work (as the Fed suggests) - then the unemployment rate actually is 7.9%.

ALSO, if you take the LFPR since Obama took office and compare it to today (it was 2.5% higher then), you actually have (using the same calculation as above) an unemployment rate of 9.3%.

Have a nice day.

Sheik Yerbuti · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Jack Hays said:
Just a shallow hit piece published when it was fashionable to pile on GWB.

:lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo

Yeah, because Murdoch really liked sticking it to Bush. :roll:

It's funny, because the standard rightie response to posting WSJ articles is usually pointing out how it's just an opinion piece. That wasn't available to you, so you had to switch to plan 'B' and call it a 'hit piece'; when really, it's just the actual numbers as they happened to fall.

Aside from your usual empty deflections, how do you like the numbers in that article?

President ......... Jobs created per year in office
Bill Clinton ............................ 2,900,000
Jimmy Carter ............................ 2,600,000
Lyndon Johnson .......................... 2,300,000
Ronald Reagan ........................... 2,000,000
Richard Nixon ........................... 1,700,000
John F. Kennedy ......................... 1,200,000
Harry Truman ............................ 1,100,000
Gerald Ford ............................... 745,000
George H.W. Bush .......................... 625,000
Dwight Eisenhower ......................... 438,000
George W. Bush ............................ 375,000

DA60 · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Sheik Yerbuti said:
I have not seen you produce any evidence of that. You posted a page which did NOT bring up any data and said I had to "search" for it. I was kind enough to do so, and still came up with a 7.8% unemployment rate for January, 2009.

So where's your proof??

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

Check Dec. '08. It says 7.3%.

The labor report comes in the first friday of the following month. So the January 7.8% figure was released ( I presume) on the first Friday in February...two weeks after Obama was inaugurated.

So, once again...the official unemployment rate the day Obama was inaugurated was 7.3% - true or false, please?

Based on my the answer I already provided, yes.

So, since the day Obama took office, the official unemployment rate is worse, average housing price is down, the national debt is up over 50% and food stamp usage is up over 40%.

And you consider that a success based only on those numbers.

Noted.

Have a nice day.

Sheik Yerbuti · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

DA60 said:
Thank you.

BTW - according to this:

Employment Situation Summary Table A. Household data, seasonally adjusted

In the last 12 months, there are 1.266 million more employed people in America AND the official unemployment rate has fallen from 8.2% to 7.6%.

However, if you take into account the fall in the Labor Force Participation Rate (LFPR) in that time, by 0.5%...AND if you only take half of that number as workers who have left the work force because they (in essence) cannot find work (as the Fed suggests) - then the unemployment rate actually is 7.9%.

ALSO, if you take the LFPR since Obama took office and compare it to today (it was 2.5% higher then), you actually have (using the same calculation as above) an unemployment rate of 9.3%.

Have a nice day.

9.3% being down from the 9.9% it was in January, 2009. 9.9% is after factoring in the 2.2% drop in the LFPR under Bush.

DA60 · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Speaking of reading comprehension, I didn't even say "a significant number" left. I said that half includes ...

As far as a link, there is none as I've already pointed out, nobody tracks that information. So no one knows how many were forced out vs how any left because they chose to do so.

No matter how hard you try, you're always going to be stuck "guessing" the number.

Then your words mean nothing to me on this.

Have a nice day.

Sheik Yerbuti · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

DA60 said:
Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

Check Dec. '08. It says 7.3%.

The labor report comes in the first friday of the following month. So the January 7.8% figure was released ( I presume) on the first Friday in February...two weeks after Obama was inaugurated.

So, once again...the official unemployment rate the day Obama was inaugurated was 7.3% - true or false, please?

So, since the day Obama took office, the official unemployment rate is worse, average housing price is down, the national debt is up over 50% and food stamp usage is up over 40%.

And you consider that a success based only on those numbers.

Noted.

Have a nice day.

Bush was still president through most of January. I don't know why you're attributing Bush's numbers to Obama other than your dishonest attempt to make Obama appear worse. I'm also not sure what policy you think Obama rolled out in his first week that even affected unemployment.

You do realize that although the unemployment rate is released once a month, people were still losing their jobs through out the month. To claim the unemployment rate was 7.3% 2/3rds into a month which lost a staggering 793,000 jobs is rather ridiculous.

Sheik Yerbuti · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

DA60 said:
Then your words mean nothing to me on this.

Have a nice day.

No worries, I feel the same way about your "guesses."

DA60 · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Sheik Yerbuti said:
9.3% being down from the 9.9% it was in January, 2009. 9.9% is after factoring in the 2.2% drop in the LFPR under Bush.

Ummm...the Labor force participation rate under GWB dropped from 67% in Dec. '00 (the last report before he took office) to 65.8% in Dec. 08...that is 1.2% - not 2.2%.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

Just change the time frame at the top to '2000' from '2003'.

Whatever numbers you wish to use...it changes nothing in regards to my numbers above.

They are accurate based on the parameters I (and the Fed) use.

Have a nice day.

DA60 · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Bush was still president through most of January. I don't know why you're attributing Bush's numbers to Obama other than your dishonest attempt to make Obama appear worse. I'm also not sure what policy you think Obama rolled out in his first week that even affected unemployment.

You do realize that although the unemployment rate is released once a month, people were still losing their jobs through out the month. To claim the unemployment rate was 7.3% 2/3rds into a month which lost a staggering 793,000 jobs is rather ridiculous.

So, once again...the official unemployment rate the day Obama was inaugurated was 7.3% - true or false, please?

Have a nice day.

Sheik Yerbuti · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

DA60 said:
Ummm...the Labor force participation rate under GWB dropped from 67% in Dec. '00 to 65.8% in Dec. 08...that is 1.2% - not 2.2%.

Holy ****! :doh

Perhaps you should just stay clear of numbers?

First of all, it was 67.2 in January, 2001, when Bush took over.

Secondly, you're confusing points with percentages.

67.2% to 65.8% is a 1.4 point drop. Not a 1.2 percent drop. 67.2% to 65.8% is a 2.2 percent drop.

Sheesh. :roll:

DA60 said:
No idea where you are getting your numbers from.

Mine are from the BLS.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

Just change the time frame at the top to '2000' from '2003'.

Whatever numbers you wish to use...it changes nothing in regards to my numbers above.

They are accurate based on the parameters I (and the Fed) use.

Have a nice day.

I too am using the numbers from the BLS. From January, 2001 through January, 2009. Factor in the 2.2% drop in LFPR during that period and Obama started with a 9.9% unemployment rate.

Sheik Yerbuti · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

DA60 said:
So, once again...the official unemployment rate the day Obama was inaugurated was 7.3% - true or false, please?

Have a nice day.

False.

The unemployment rate continues to change throughout the month, even though the BLS reports on it only once a month.

Again, you're trying to put 3 weeks ot of 4.5 worth of 793 thousand job loses on Obama. I still haven't seen your explanation of how Obama even had anything to do with the job loses which occurred in that final 1½ week? You avoided that one completely.

And btw, even going from Dec/2001 - Dec/2009, even though it's adding 2/3rds of one of the worst months in recorded history in terms of job loses on Obama and not the person who was still president, adjusting the unemployment rate with the LFPR still leaves the unemployment rate at 9.3% for December, 2008.

DA60 · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Holy ****! :doh

Perhaps you should just stay clear of numbers?

First of all, it was 67.2 in January, 2001, when Bush took over.

Secondly, you're confusing points with percentages.

67.2% to 65.8% is a 1.4 point drop. Not a 1.2 percent drop. 67.2% to 65.8% is a 2.2 percent drop.

Sheesh. :roll:

I too am using the numbers from the BLS. From January, 2001 through January, 2009. Factor in the 2.2% drop in LFPR during that period and Obama started with a 9.9% unemployment rate.

One - the LFPR comes out the first Firday of the following month - that means the rate was officially 67% when he took over...not 67.2%.

Two - fair enough (though why you get so emotional over this is beyond me - sounds like you need more in your life).

Since we are talking about numbers based on percentages - I assumed you were talking about change in the percentage of the rate...not the point drop.

So the percentage drop is 1.79% - not 2.2%.

You may now commence your spinning...anew.

It still changes nothing that I posted - the numbers are accurate based on the parameters I (and in essence, the Fed) used.

Have a nice day.

Sheik Yerbuti · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

DA60 said:
One - the LFPR comes out the first Firday of the following month - that means the rate was officially 67% when he took over...not 67.2%.

Holy ****! :roll:

Who cares when it comes out?? It's for the previous month. That still leaves 2/3rds of the month under Bush and the final third Under Obama, whose policies have not yet had much, if any, effect on the numbers during the final week and a half of January. You'd have to be seriously desperate to push 2/3rds of 793,000 job loses onto Obama while Bush was still president. Be that person if you think you need it that badly for your argument.

DA60 said:
Since we are talking about numbers based on percentages - I assumed you were talking about change in the percentage of the rate...not the point drop.

So the percentage drop is 1.79% - not 2.2%.

No, it's 2.2%. I don't subscribe to your position of attributing a month which Bush was mostly president to Obama.

DA60 · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Sheik Yerbuti said:
False.

So, even though the official unemployment rate the day Obama took office was posted by the BLS at 7.3% - you say that this was not the official unemployment rate the day he took office.

Okaaaaaaaaay.

I wonder what other facts you only see when they suit you....yikes.

Wow - you are really out there.

Have a nice day.

DA60 · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Holy ****! :roll:

Who cares when it comes out?? It's for the previous month. That still leaves 2/3rds of the month under Bush and the final third Under Obama, whose policies have not yet had much, if any, effect on the numbers during the final week and a half of January. You'd have to be seriously desperate to push 2/3rds of 793,000 job loses onto Obama while Bush was still president. Be that person if you think you need it that badly for your argument.

No, it's 2.2%. I don't subscribe to your position of attributing a month which Bush was mostly president to Obama.

So you don't subscribe to official statistics unless they suit you.

Noted.

Thus, I can see further debate with you on this is pointless.

Let me know when you recognize official BLS statistics as official BLS statistics.

Have a nice day.

Sheik Yerbuti · Apr 16, 2013

Conservative said:
Did you even watch the video? Where did Bush promote sub prime loans? Did you hear Bush talk about QUALIFIED buyers? Did you hear about the partnership to promote home ownership for QUALIFIED buyers? You seem to have a problem with a goal to get QUALIFIED buyers into homes. Maybe you don't understand the term QUALIFIED. Maybe you don't understand the term goal? Maybe you don't understand that the housing bubble wasn't created by loaning money to QUALIFIED buyers. I suggest you watch the video and then tell me how this built the housing bubble and created loans to UNQUALIFIED individuals or sub prime interest VARIABLE Rates?

Seems you're the one who doesn't understand that video. Bush even exaplains in it what he meant by 'qualified' ... easing the restrictiions to qualify. "help the people pay that downpayment". His plan was to relax qualifications so that more people who wouldn't otherwise qualify because they couldn't afford the home they were buying, could buy the home anyway. That was one of the causes of the crash and that video shows Bush promoting the idea.

... g'head, this is where you respond with invective in lieu of debate ...

Sheik Yerbuti · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

DA60 said:
So you don't subscribe to official statistics unless they suit you.

Noted.

Thus, I can see further debate with you on this is pointless.

Let me know when you recognize official BLS statistics as official BLS statistics.

Have a nice day.

You're certainly welcome to bow out ... however, I will continue to point out the fallacies of your postion whenever I see you trying to stick Obama with Bush's failures.

DA60 · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Sheik Yerbuti said:
You're certainly welcome to bow out ... however, I will continue to point out the fallacies of your postion whenever I see you trying to stick Obama with Bush's failures.

Whatever.

I would say what I think of your emotional state - but the rules preclude me from doing so.

Besides, you are on my ignore list - for obvious reasons - the only reason I saw your post is I was bored and took a gander.

Kind of glad I did for a couple of reasons.

And, once again for the road...

BTW - according to this:

Employment Situation Summary Table A. Household data, seasonally adjusted

In the last 12 months, there are 1.266 million more employed people in America AND the official unemployment rate has fallen from 8.2% to 7.6%.

However, if you take into account the fall in the Labor Force Participation Rate (LFPR) in that time, by 0.5%...AND if you only take half of that number as workers who have left the work force because they (in essence) cannot find work (as the Fed suggests) - then the unemployment rate actually is 7.9%.

ALSO, if you take the LFPR since Obama took office and compare it to today (it was 2.5% higher then), you actually have (using the same calculation as above) an unemployment rate of 9.3%.

Have a nice day.

Sheik Yerbuti · Apr 16, 2013

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

DA60 said:
Whatever.

Would you debate with people you think are emotionally unstable?

Not me.

Besides, you are on my ignore list - for obvious reasons - the only reason I saw your post is I was bored and took a gander.

Kind of glad I did for a couple of reasons.

And, one for the road...

BTW - according to this:

Employment Situation Summary Table A. Household data, seasonally adjusted

In the last 12 months, there are 1.266 million more employed people in America AND the official unemployment rate has fallen from 8.2% to 7.6%.

However, if you take into account the fall in the Labor Force Participation Rate (LFPR) in that time, by 0.5%...AND if you only take half of that number as workers who have left the work force because they (in essence) cannot find work (as the Fed suggests) - then the unemployment rate actually is 7.9%.

ALSO, if you take the LFPR since Obama took office and compare it to today (it was 2.5% higher then), you actually have (using the same calculation as above) an unemployment rate of 9.3%.

Have a nice day.

It's sad to see you denigrate to name calling, but whatever. It is somewhat bizarre how you say you are done, but then continue: :shrug:

Still, factoring in the LFPR for when Obama started (something you refuse to do for some reason?), the unemployment rate when he started was 9.9%. Even if you generously stick Obama with the 2/3rds who lost their job during the month where 793,000 jobs were lost while Bush was president until the 20th, the U3 unemployment rate was 9.3%. Still not worse today.