SKorea: North Korea moved missile to east coast

tech30528 said:

What was the point of a drone program if we are not going to use it to take out this guy and his closest friends? It a perfect application for them, accuracy without a lot of colateral damage. I don't think that is the problem at all. I don't think anyone wants to take responsibilty for the people afterward.

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or possibly we would like an unexpected live fire event to test missile intercept capabilities...

I would like to straighten out of few details which many posters here have misconceptions of:
1) A war on the Hanbando is not a viable option. Condo serving that the population in the Hanbando amounts to more than 75 million people, a war would have a devastating impact. South Korea is an important link in the world economy, and as American duly noted, the devastation of South Korea will affect the world markets immensely, especially considering that we are one of the top three countries that both Japan and China trades with most.
2) Assassination is simply another unthinkable action. Taking out the entire NK leadership is close to impossible, and penetrating the country with the right equipment is another huge obstacle. Assuming that one does get through, how will one get close enough to Kim-Jong-Un to kill him? There's also a heavy assumption that destroying the elite of NK will result in its collapse and unification. A scenario more plausible is that the country will fall into chaos from the political infighting, and South Korea will be devastated from NK artillery, and China will suffer from millions of refugees crossing its border.
3) North Korea is not some military juggernaut that has an incredible military. It's defense spending, while enormous compared to its GDP, amounts to only 3 billion, which is about 1/10 of ours alone. It's 1 million strong military is starving to death in peacetime, and most of its equipment date from the Cold War and even from WWII. I doubt that NK also has a reliable delivery system to use its nukes. No, the biggest threat from NK is its hundreds of thousands of artillery that is aimed at Kyeonggi-do, the economic heartland that is responsible for about half of the South's economy and 40% if it's population. That's their ace in the hole and the biggest threat, not their nukes or supposedly strong military.

Proud South Korean said:

I would like to
straighten out of few details which many posters here have misconceptions of:
1) A war on the Hanbando is not a viable option. Condo serving that the population in the Hanbando amounts to more than 75 million people, a war would have a devastating impact. South Korea is an important link in the world economy, and as American duly noted, the devastation of South Korea will affect the world markets immensely, especially considering that we are one of the top three countries that both Japan and China trades with most.
2) Assassination is simply another unthinkable action. Taking out the entire NK leadership is close to impossible, and penetrating the country with the right equipment is another huge obstacle. Assuming that one does get through, how will one get close enough to Kim-Jong-Un to kill him? There's also a heavy assumption that destroying the elite of NK will result in its collapse and unification. A scenario more plausible is that the country will fall into chaos from the political infighting, and South Korea will be devastated from NK artillery, and China will suffer from millions of refugees crossing its border.
3) North Korea is not some military juggernaut that has an incredible military. It's defense spending, while enormous compared to its GDP, amounts to only 3 billion, which is about 1/10 of ours alone. It's 1 million strong military is starving to death in peacetime, and most of its equipment date from the Cold War and even from WWII. I doubt that NK also has a reliable delivery system to use its nukes. No, the biggest threat from NK is its hundreds of thousands of artillery that is aimed at Kyeonggi-do, the economic heartland that is responsible for about half of the South's economy and 40% if it's population. That's their ace in the hole and the biggest threat, not their nukes or supposedly strong military.

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I was aware of their massive build-up of artillery but we have to at least assume that they have the means to deliver a nuke and take precautions that would nuetralize any attempt of a detonation on yours, Japans or our soil.

I was curious if the NKoreans had moved into thermal fusion weapons or are they armed with fission weapons.

With the belicose threats I have a hard time seeing how he will walk back his rhetoric and still save face among his people.

Fenton said:

I was aware of their massive build-up of artillery but we have to at least assume that they have the means to deliver a nuke and take precautions that would nuetralize any attempt of a detonation on yours, Japans or our soil.

I was curious if the NKoreans had moved into thermal fusion weapons or are they armed with fission weapons.

With the belicose threats I have a hard time seeing how he will walk back his rhetoric and still save face among his people.

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I am no expert on nuclear weapons, but I'm guessing that they can only deliver by cruise missiles (which can be intercepted to my knowledge) instead of ballistics.

There is also the issue of a massive influx of refugees to the human toll of any real NKorean aggresion.

KevinKohler said:

I don't know. I just think it's lazy of us all to sit back and expect our governments to handle everything.

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So put your money where your mouth is. What are you doing to bring down Kim Jong Un - besides lecturing everyone else to do so?

Fenton said:

With the belicose threats I have a hard time seeing how he will walk back his rhetoric and still save face among his people.

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That's a piece of cake when the state has an iron grip on the media.

Proud South Korean said:

I am no expert on
nuclear weapons, but I'm guessing that they can only deliver by cruise missiles (which can be intercepted to my knowledge) instead of ballistics.

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Ah, ok.

Fusion thermal weapon would be a multistage nuke. It's trigger is a fission Nuke, like the Hiroshima weapon. Shaped explosive charges around a ball of highly enriched plutonium that causes it to reach critical mass.

Using the energy from the trigger to fuse tritium and deuterium which releases a massive amount of energy and also as a by-product Hydrogen.

Thus a "Hydrogen Bomb". Kilotons to Mega-tons is the difference.

Fenton said:

Ah, ok.

Fusion thermal weapon would be a multistage nuke. It's trigger is a fission Nuke, like the Hiroshima weapon. Shaped explosive charges around a ball of highly enriched plutonium that causes it to reach critical mass.

Using the energy from the trigger to fuse tritium and deuterium which releases a massive amount of energy and also as a by-product Hydrogen.

Thus a "Hydrogen Bomb". Kilotons to Mega-tons is the difference.

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Ah, thanks for the info

penn1954 said:

But a famous liberal made it illegal in the 60s !!

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Ford was a liberal? A furthermore he signed into law there would be now more assassinations in the 70's.

Helix said:

i still don't think the intention is an actual launch, but this ****ing asshole has ratcheted up tensions to the point where full scale war could erupt over a border guard flipping the bird to a soldier across the DMZ.

i truly hope we don't get dragged into yet another ****ing war. we've been at war for most of my adult life. enough is enough.

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"I think that guy is about to give us the finger. Unleash hell!"

Personally, I think the actions of the North Korean leadership are typical of a nation on the verge of an internal revolution. It is quite possible that Kim Jong Un is about to be overthrown by some military strong-man who has sufficient support to pull it off. Kim Jong Un did, if I recall correctly, fire a bunch of military leaders when his father died and he took over. One or some of them may have more support from the military than Un does.

I don't believe that North Korea represents any serious threat to the continental US, but the west's allies in the area, South Korea and Japan, could suffer some of the fallout.

Northern Light said:

If we take out NK's leader he will just be replaced by someone else. Someone with that big of an ego always has a contigency plan upon their own death. Plus, it would really cause tension with China.

If that strategy worked we would have done it with Saddam. Direct assassinations in general make us look bad, which is why the CIA tends to manipulate that country's citizens from an underground level into wanting to do it themselves. That's hard to do in NK where the average person has such limited means. AFAIK there are barely any firearms in the whole country that non-soldiers have access to, let alone underground training to carry out an assassination.

Nowadays, it looks better to form a coalition and invade under manufactured consent. Then when you eventually take out the leader it just makes it seem par for the course.

The lynch pin to this whole problem is China. They are using NK's bad behavior to shield themselves from negative press. If they get to chastise another country's behavior then it makes them look good. Also, NK is the guard dog at the gate to China, which is why a nutso regime was installed there in the first place. Korean reunification with an American alliance would end up putting U.S. bases right at China's doorstep.

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Which is probably a thought of thing in Washington, and also probably liked by many.

Jango said:

"I think that guy is about to give us the finger. Unleash hell!"

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it's like a movie plot where the war starts because some idiot has his safety off or somebody spills coffee on the launch controls. except this ain't a movie, and we're all invested in it whether we want to be or not.

I hate war, and I hate having to be even slightly concerned with what some immature, power mad dip**** thinks about anything.

Helix said:

it's like a movie plot where the war starts because some idiot has his safety off or somebody spills coffee on the launch controls. except this ain't a movie, and we're all invested in it whether we want to be or not.

I hate war, and I hate having to be even slightly concerned with what some immature, power mad dip**** thinks about anything.

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Which is entirely why I'm not discounting the possibility of War. The human element could easily come out to play, triggering larger consequences.

This morning NKorea moved another Med Range Missile onto their East Coast. To make matters worse. S Korea is confirming they have been placed upon launchers and are being readied to go.

Also reported by us.....we cannot find two of their Subs, which have now gone missing.

EnigmaO01 said:

Ford was a liberal? A furthermore he signed into law there would be now more assassinations in the 70's.

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Frank Church was.

the_recruit said:

So put your money where your mouth is. What are you doing to bring down Kim Jong Un - besides lecturing everyone else to do so?

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Nothing. I didn't mean to lecture, it's not how I wanted to come off as sounding. What would I do if I could? Try to mail a few key books to folks over there? I'm no hacker...wouldn't know were to start. I just feel like...in order for us to progress as a global society, we're going to have to acknowledge that a lot of this crap is up to us, directly, and not just the few who enlist, and the fewer we elect.

"For several decades, China has been North Korea's closest ally, largest trade partner and primary source of aid.
However, Kurt Campbell, the former head of the State department in Asia, said there are signs that a relationship once described by Chairman Mao to be "as close as lips and teeth" is wearing thin.
"There is a subtle shift in Chinese foreign policy. Over the short to medium term, that has the potential to affect the calculus in north east Asia," Mr Campbell said at a forum at John Hopkins university.
"You have seen it at the United Nations (Security Council). We have seen it in our private discussions and you see it in statements in Beijing," he added.

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Mr Deng argued that China's relationship with North Korea had become a liability. "Why should China maintain relations with a regime and a country that will face failure sooner or later?" he asked. "Once North Korea has nuclear weapons, it cannot be ruled out that the capricious Kim regime will engage in nuclear blackmail against China," he added.
Meanwhile, the Kaesong Industrial Complex, a key bellwether of relations between the North and the South, was closed on Friday for a national holiday.
The North has blocked South Korean workers from entering the site, which lies six miles inside its border, for two days, although staff are permitted to leave the site.
The South Korean Unification minister, Ryoo Kihl-jae, said the South was willing to evacuate the Kaesong if it was felt that its citizens were in danger. At present, however, he said the situation at Kaesong "is not very dangerous" and the government was "not considering" a shutdown.
South Korea has also dispatched warships, in addition to the two US destroyers in the area, to monitor the North for a missile launch. Yonhap, the South Korean news agency, reported that two more missiles had been transported by North Korea to its east coast using its network of underground tunnels."

China 'shifts position' on North Korea - Telegraph

Let's hope that China clamps down on the young dangerous Kim before he starts something that would be a disaster, and possibly WWIII.

Published on Apr 5, 2013

Two missiles have been transported by train to the coast, reports say, as the UN chief warns "the nuclear threat is not a game".North Korea has moved two missiles to its east coast and loaded them on mobile launchers, South Korea's Yonhap news agency has said.

The move fuels fears of an imminent firing, which would further ramp up tensions in the peninsula.

"It has been confirmed that North Korea, early this week, transported two Musudan mid-range missiles by train to the east coast and loaded them on vehicles equipped with launch pads," Yonhap quoted a top government official as saying, according to AFP.

The official said the mobile launchers had since been hidden in special underground facilities, according to the report.

Intelligence officials from the US, Japan and South Korea are monitoring the movement of the weapons. The Musudan missile is a mid-range weapon, meaning it is capable of reaching South Korea and Japan and perhaps also the US territory of Guam in the Pacific Ocean.

"The range is between 3,000 to 4,000km (1,864 to 2,485 miles). There are major US military forces in Guam and a fixed number of troops to deal with the Korean peninsula, so I think these facts can reduce the possible danger there," said Kim Min-seok, South Korea's Defence Ministry spokesman.

UN chief Ban Ki-moon said daily reports from Pyongyang were "really alarming and troubling" and urged North Korea to ease tensions.

"Nuclear threat is not a game, it is very serious," he said, adding that any misjudgement or miscalculation could have "very serious implications". Speaking to Sky News, a security adviser to the South Korean government said there is no doubt that North Korea's capability is concerning.

"The technological level of North Korean weapons has become much improved and better - especially their missile capability and their long-range artilleries," Kim Byungki said.

"It is more uncertain, it is less predictable, there are more ways for them to destabilise us and there are more ways for us to respond ... so it is more complex.".....snip~

I don't inderstand the significance of missiles being moved to their east coast. According to my maps that takes them further away from US bases in Japan and Guam and a microscopically small distance closer to continental USA. What's the deal about that?

Andalublue said:

I don't inderstand the significance of missiles being moved to their east coast. According to my maps that takes them further away from US bases in Japan and Guam and a microscopically small distance closer to continental USA. What's the deal about that?

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I can imagine a post like this if a launch were to be successful resulting in a mainland US hit...Sounds like you'd say,

'I don't understand what the big deal is, the missile hit a rual area, and only killed 1,000 Americans....What's the big deal about that?'

Hmmmmm....

Andalublue said:

I don't inderstand the significance of missiles being moved to their east coast. According to my maps that takes them further away from US bases in Japan and Guam and a microscopically small distance closer to continental USA. What's the deal about that?

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The Significance is it puts them in range especially if they were moved from the Central part of the peninsula or from their West Coast.

Considering that Taepodong 2 was, essentially, a failure and lasted in the air for ... a minute (?) I'm not so worried about TD-3.