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Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

Gimmesometruth said:
Lets put it into terms you like to use.....

Hitler signed a peace pact with Stalin, so how dedicated to his ideology could he be?
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Double Godwin. Nice. :lol:

I guess we'll have to wait to see if the AB run a sneak attack on their multi-ethnic allies.
 
calamity said:
Latino street gangs are attacking African Americans, running them out of neighborhoods. Does that now make them Right Wing? The Italian Mafia will kill associates who are gay. Does that makes the Gambino Family a RW hate group?

No. They are criminal gangs.
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We're not talking about Latino street gangs or the Gambino family.

We're talking about a group with a specific political ideology that has committed crimes based on that ideology
 
calamity said:
Double Godwin. Nice. :lol:

I guess we'll have to wait to see if the AB run a sneak attack on their multi-ethnic allies.
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Um, that wasn't a Godwin, it was a simple example of actors making deals with devils to further their ends......which you got in the second line of your response.

I have no idea what you have left to say, you already conceded the AB is extreme right wing.

calamity said:
True, in that they are indeed the polar opposite to the Far left.
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sangha said:
Leaders of Racist Prison Gang Aryan Brotherhood Face Federal Indictment | Southern Poverty Law Center
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Hate Crimes do not define the Right Wing. I thought that was clear. Racists do not define the Right wing.

The Unibomber was a Left Wing Terrorist. McVeigh was the Right Wing Version. Mobsters are just criminals. Many of whom are xenophobic and racists. Would you classify the Irish Mob as "Right Wing" since they frequently terrorized Blacks? How about Latino gangs today?

Compton Leaders Demand Hate Crime Charges For Gang Members « CBS Los Angeles
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Um, that wasn't a Godwin, it was a simple example of actors making deals with devils to further their ends......which you got in the second line of your response.

I have no idea what you have left to say, you already conceded the AB is extreme right wing.
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That they are a criminal gang not a political movement. Thus calling them "Right Wing" is simply wrong.
 
sangha said:
We're not talking about Latino street gangs or the Gambino family.

We're talking about a group with a specific political ideology that has committed crimes based on that ideology
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That is true, if you classify racist ideology as a political one.
 
calamity said:
Hate Crimes do not define the Right Wing. I thought that was clear. Racists do not define the Right wing.

The Unibomber was a Left Wing Terrorist. McVeigh was the Right Wing Version. Mobsters are just criminals. Many of whom are xenophobic and racists. Would you classify the Irish Mob as "Right Wing" since they frequently terrorized Blacks? How about Latino gangs today?

Compton Leaders Demand Hate Crime Charges For Gang Members « CBS Los Angeles
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Again, their political ideology is based on race and the crime they committed was based on their ideology

While hate crimes are not necessarily political motivated, that does not mean that no hate crime is politically motivated.

You are being illogical. What you are saying is logically the same as saying that since robbery and extortion do not define organized crime, the Gambino Family is not a criminal organization.

And selling drugs doesn't make a criminal a cartel, so the Medelin cartel is not a cartel :screwy:
 
calamity said:
That they are a criminal gang not a political movement. Thus calling them "Right Wing" is simply wrong.
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The two are not mutually exclusive. It's like saying Al Queda is a criminal gang and not a political movement
 
Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down

calamity said:
Nothing like a War between White Supremacists and LEO. Taking out an officer of the Court in the state of Texas has got to be the first steps toward committing suicide.
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You mean "committing suicide."
 
calamity said:
That they are a criminal gang not a political movement. Thus calling them "Right Wing" is simply wrong.
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Um....
calamity said:
True, in that they are indeed the polar opposite to the Far left.
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This part of the conversation is done, you answered your own question.
 
sangha said:
Their ideology is that white Aryans should rule the world. That is political
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Yes and yes. Also, without a doubt, prison gang Aryans work hard to try ruling the prisons, and they probably believe it's their god given right to do so. That doesn't make them an arm of the Right Wing. I'm not even sure they qualify as Right wing at all--they are a prison gang.

What sticks out to me is that they make up 1% of the prison population but account for 20% of the crime. They are busy little beavers. I guess, I just don't see them as politically motivated--racially motivated and united under the white-power banner, yes.
 
calamity said:
That doesn't make them an arm of the Right Wing.
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That was not what was being determined, what was being determined was whether the AB is a rw extremist group.

You already conceded that.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Um....


This part of the conversation is done, you answered your own question.
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Polar opposite in that they are the anti-hippie. But, I don't see the AB as the antithesis of an Eco Terrorist. It's not like the AB beats up protesters or plants bombs in abortion clinics...hell, they could probably give a rat's ass about the unborn. Just because the AB burns gays and lynches blacks doesn't mean they want to cut down the forests on earth day.

They are a criminal gang, based on hate group ideology. If that is your criteria for RW, then yes. They fit. I just see RW as being part of a bigger picture.
 
calamity said:
Yes and yes. Also, without a doubt, prison gang Aryans work hard to try ruling the prisons, and they probably believe it's their god given right to do so. That doesn't make them an arm of the Right Wing. I'm not even sure they qualify as Right wing at all--they are a prison gang.

What sticks out to me is that they make up 1% of the prison population but account for 20% of the crime. They are busy little beavers. I guess, I just don't see them as politically motivated--racially motivated and united under the white-power banner, yes.
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"an arm of the Right Wing" suggests that there is some unified group. There isn't

And there's nothing in the definition that disqualifies a prison gang.

You are just raising red herrings which have nothing to do with determining their political lean. Face it! You were put off by their description as a prison gang more interested in making money which led you to think they weren't political and now you're not willing to admit that your assumption that a prison gang can't be political was wrong.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
That was not what was being determined, what was being determined was whether the AB is a rw extremist group.

You already conceded that.
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No I didn't. They are an extremist hate group motivated more by money and power than ideology. They are definitely not Left. And, they may even self-identify as Right Wing. But, they are just a prison gang which defines itself by race. White supremacists, yes. Political Wingnuts, no.
 
calamity said:
No I didn't. They are an extremist hate group motivated more by money and power than ideology. They are definitely not Left. And, they may even self-identify as Right Wing. But, they are just a prison gang which defines itself by race. White supremacists, yes. Political Wingnuts, no.
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The Koch brothers are motivated more by money than political power, but there's no denying that they are right wing. I suspect that many politicians are motivated more by money than anything else (including ideology) but that doesn't mean they can't be placed on the political spectrum

White supremacy is a political ideology. It is more than just being racist.
 
calamity said:
Polar opposite in that they are the anti-hippie. But, I don't see the AB as the antithesis of an Eco Terrorist. It's not like the AB beats up protesters or plants bombs in abortion clinics...hell, they could probably give a rat's ass about the unborn. Just because the AB burns gays and lynches blacks doesn't mean they want to cut down the forests on earth day.

They are a criminal gang, based on hate group ideology. If that is your criteria for RW, then yes. They fit. I just see RW as being part of a bigger picture.
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You keep on changing the goalposts and ignoring the definitions we have to agree upon.
Gimmesometruth said:
Calamity, I hope you are familiar with the concept of a political map, where one axis describes economic beliefs and the other axis describes social freedom? Since we have little to go as far as economic beliefs (though one could argue they operate with a extreme libertarian view, ie no govt interference), we have to place them primarily on social standards. Clearly, they fall on the extreme right.

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calamity said:
True, in that they are indeed the polar opposite to the Far left.
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You cannot agree upon a definition and say you were talking about "hippies".

Stop being so frigging deceptive, you agreed they are a rw extremist group, live with your admission to the stated definitions and move on. This backtracking and trying to rewrite what you said is just bs.
 
calamity said:
No I didn't. They are an extremist hate group motivated more by money and power than ideology. They are definitely not Left. And, they may even self-identify as Right Wing. But, they are just a prison gang which defines itself by race. White supremacists, yes. Political Wingnuts, no.
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You just keep on trying to backtrack to previous positions were you again are trying to extract the group from their stated poli-sci positions. If you do not want to discuss their poli-sci positions....THEN DON'T....but you have and you are and you cannot now play this "but they have no political views". They clearly do, you already recognized them as being " the polar opposite of left wing".

FFS, quit running away from what you already admitted.
 
sangha said:
"an arm of the Right Wing" suggests that there is some unified group. There isn't

And there's nothing in the definition that disqualifies a prison gang.

You are just raising red herrings which have nothing to do with determining their political lean. Face it! You were put off by their description as a prison gang more interested in making money which led you to think they weren't political and now you're not willing to admit that your assumption that a prison gang can't be political was wrong.
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Prison gangs are a unique animal---they evolved in Prisons.
James B. Jacobs (1982) points out that violent racial conflict is a reality within correctional
institutions and that such racial conflict has coincided with a decline in the custodial staff's
ability tomaintain order. He suggests that "while racial conflict complicates the security task, the
deterioration of order is also attributable to increased programming, court intervention...and
overcrowding" (p.121). These were precisely the conditions operating within the Texas prison
system that facilitated the Aryan Brotherhood's development.
http://www.americanjustice.com/images/abt1.pdf
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And, although, like you the authors define the AB as RW extremists, you can tell by reading their reports, that the AB's existence is primarily a response to and condition of prison.

I'll concede that they are definitely on the Right. But, as yet, they are not politically driven outside of prison. Thus they really cannot be considered a part of the political entity we normally call the Right Wing.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
You just keep on trying to backtrack to previous positions were you again are trying to extract the group from their stated poli-sci positions. If you do not want to discuss their poli-sci positions....THEN DON'T....but you have and you are and you cannot now play this "but they have no political views". They clearly do, you already recognized them as being " the polar opposite of left wing".

FFS, quit running away from what you already admitted.
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His position requires that he ignore their political beliefs and actions so that he can claim that they have no political beliefs, and even if they do, they haven't acted on them :roll:
 
calamity said:
Thus they really cannot be considered a part of the political entity we normally call the Right Wing.
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Hogwash, for multiple reasons already discussed. You are continuing this reframing of the conversation. The determination was whether the AB is a right wing extremist group.

You already admitted they are.

Stop it.
 
calamity said:
Prison gangs are a unique animal---they evolved in Prisons.


And, although, like you the authors define the AB as RW extremists, you can tell by reading their reports, that the AB's existence is primarily a response to and condition of prison.

I'll concede that they are definitely on the Right. But, as yet, they are not politically driven outside of prison. Thus they really cannot be considered a part of the political entity we normally call the Right Wing.
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Your position requires that you ignore their political beliefs and actions so that you can claim that they have no political beliefs, and even if they do, they haven't acted on them

The fact remains that they have committed political crimes outside of prison.
 
I do believe we are all united in taking care of these domestic terrorists - whatever it takes.
 
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