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New Hampshire House Votes To Prohibit Private Prisons

Muddy Creek said:
And being locked up isn't payment enough? Nah, the guys need to earn money so that when they are released, they aren't easy prey for crime again to get some cash.
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In some cases, it's not. For some criminals, prison is a right of passage; a badge of honor.
 
poweRob said:
Private prisons are publicly funded and cost the state more than public prisons to run as well as being less effective.

Even with that... they still fudge stats to make them look better than they actually are:

The research, by the Arizona Department of Corrections, also reveals a murky aspect of private prisons that helps them appear less expensive: They often house only relatively healthy inmates.

“It’s cherry-picking,” said State Representative Chad Campbell, leader of the House Democrats. “They leave the most expensive prisoners with taxpayers and take the easy prisoners.”

link...​
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if they cost more and are ineffective then that would suggest management problems and the State needn't deal with that particular company. Or perhaps they can take harder criminals and other go elsewhere. Or vice versa. But is an outright ban necessary, or even legal?
 
apdst said:
And that's fine, but I don't think they should get paid.
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So how do you propose integrating back into society a prison releasee who is broke and whose only money making experiences have been criminal activity?
 
apdst said:
In some cases, it's not. For some criminals, prison is a right of passage; a badge of honor.
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Really? I think you've seen too much TV. For gangs and for hard core criminals, they will be back in NOT because they love prison, but because they are in gangs. For the majority of three strike prisoners, they just want to do their time and get out of there. if we don't train them and get them started, they will be back in. You DO know it costs us to house these prisoners, right? Even and especially if the prisons are privatized?
 
Grant said:
if they cost more and are ineffective then that would suggest management problems and the State needn't deal with that particular company. Or perhaps they can take harder criminals and other go elsewhere. Or vice versa. But is an outright ban necessary, or even legal?
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Yeah. You have no rights in a private prison. And every American deserves to have their grievances addressed and be kept from torture like the solitary confinement of private prisons. Banning is the ONLY solution.
 
poweRob said:
So how do you propose integrating back into society a former criminal who is broke and knows only how to make money criminally?
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According to you, they learned a trade in the joint and can get a job when they get out.

Plenty of people in this country find themselves broke and unemployed and don't break the law to make money, so spare me the boo-hoo crap.
 
Grant said:
if they cost more and are ineffective then that would suggest management problems and the State needn't deal with that particular company. Or perhaps they can take harder criminals and other go elsewhere. Or vice versa. But is an outright ban necessary, or even legal?
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They will always be more expensive. They simply take what the state does, do the same thing and add a profit margin. Then to expand profit margins, which corporations always have to do (because good profit isn't enough... it always has to be more than last quarter's profit margin), cut corners and make the place less secure and more dangerous.
 
Muddy Creek said:
Really? I think you've seen too much TV. For gangs and for hard core criminals, they will be back in NOT because they love prison, but because they are in gangs. For the majority of three strike prisoners, they just want to do their time and get out of there. if we don't train them and get them started, they will be back in. You DO know it costs us to house these prisoners, right? Even and especially if the prisons are privatized?
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Hence the reason I believe that prisons should be more self sufficient and reduce operating costs AND teaching prisoners how to do a days work.

If anything, criminals lack work ethic. They need to learn how to work from daylight to dark, so they can apply that work ethic in the real world. Learning a trade doesn't mean jack, if they don't get their asses up in the morning and go work all day.
 
apdst said:
According to you, they learned a trade in the joint and can get a job when they get out.
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And according to you, **** 'em. I'm talking about YOUR prison designs, not mine.

apdst said:
Plenty of people in this country find themselves broke and unemployed and don't break the law to make money, so spare me the boo-hoo crap.
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It's not boo-hoo crap... it's a simple question that you apparently refuse to address.
 
apdst said:
I don't think they should get paid, unless of course the prison is producing goods and turns a profit. At that point, I could see the prisoners getting a share of the profits, to be put into a savings account accesible after their release.
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So basically, you think that prisoners should not have proper living standards, not have access to rehabilitation, should work the fields all day, and not get paid. Tell me, what do you think is going to happen when prisoners in such a system are released?

The recidivism rate in the U.S. is 60%. Your plan would do nothing to reduce that.

There is really no point in having this discussion with you because your views are based on punitive revenge, an emotional appeal. Not to mention you support slavery.
 
apdst said:
According to you, they learned a trade in the joint and can get a job when they get out.

Plenty of people in this country find themselves broke and unemployed and don't break the law to make money, so spare me the boo-hoo crap.
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Look at the statistics, the present penal system is a failure by every measure, excerpt for increasing the number of incarcerated people. We now incarcerate a greater portion of the people in the USA (Land of the Free?) than any nation in the world. There is plenty of evidence that privatizing prisons is a not a solution, and there is a significant danger that if allowed to expand, the private prison industry would have too much political power for the penal system to serve the public interest.
 
Northern Light said:
So basically, you think that prisoners should not have proper living standards, not have access to rehabilitation, should work the fields all day, and not get paid. Tell me, what do you think is going to happen when prisoners in such a system are released?

The recidivism rate in the U.S. is 60%. Your plan would do nothing to reduce that.

There is really no point in having this discussion with you because your views are based on punitive revenge, an emotional appeal. Not to mention you support slavery.
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SOunds to me like all the things you propose are already being done and 60% of the prisoners in your system are coming back to jail. YOUR proposals are failing miserably.
 
Hard Truth said:
Look at the statistics, the present penal system is a failure by every measure, excerpt for increasing the number of incarcerated people. We now incarcerate a greater portion of the people in the USA (Land of the Free?) than any nation in the world. There is plenty of evidence that privatizing prisons is a not a solution[, and there is a significant danger that if allowed to expand, the private prison industry would have too much political power for the penal system to serve the public interest.
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How many GODDAMN times do I have to say that I never said prisons should be privatized?
 
apdst said:
Hence the reason I believe that prisons should be more self sufficient and reduce operating costs AND teaching prisoners how to do a days work.

If anything, criminals lack work ethic. They need to learn how to work from daylight to dark, so they can apply that work ethic in the real world. Learning a trade doesn't mean jack, if they don't get their asses up in the morning and go work all day.
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You really have this narrow right wing view of people who end up in prison. Again, way too much TV.
 
apdst said:
SOunds to me like all the things you propose are already being done and 60% of the prisoners in your system are coming back to jail. YOUR proposals are failing miserably.
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There's no rehabilitation going on in prisons now. They lack funds to do it, is the excuse right before the state privatizes and then pays the private corporations three times the amount the state was paying to actually rehabilitate prisoners before the cutbacks.
 
Muddy Creek said:
There's no rehabilitation going on in prisons now. They lack funds to do it, is the excuse right before the state privatizes and then pays the private corporations three times the amount the state was paying to actually rehabilitate prisoners before the cutbacks.
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All the things you propose are already in place. Why isn't rehabilitation going on?
 
poweRob said:
Major kudos to the New Hampshire House. Hopefully this will push through the rest of the state government and then go viral to other states.


House votes to prohibit prison privatization, bill moves to Senate for review

The House on Thursday voted to forbid the executive branch from privatizing the state prison system, saying that to do so would shirk the state’s constitutional responsibility to rehabilitate inmates.

The 197-136 roll call by the Democratic -controlled House sent House Bill 443 to the Senate, where Republicans hold a slim, 13-11 majority and the bill’s fate is uncertain, at best.​
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Canada is moving in the opposite direction, although slowly. There are very few things in life that can be done better by a government bureaucrat than by a business person concerned about the cost of pencils and paper clips. It matches the old saying: "take care of the pennies, and the dollars will take care of themselves".
 
CanadaJohn said:
Canada is moving in the opposite direction, although slowly. There are very few things in life that can be done better by a government bureaucrat than by a business person concerned about the cost of pencils and paper clips. It matches the old saying: "take care of the pennies, and the dollars will take care of themselves".
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That is generally true. The problem with this is that the government is funding the prison. I haven't seen to many businesses with large government contracts that count the pencils and paper clips.
 
All I have heard about private prisons has been more bad than good. So this is welcome news.
 
poweRob said:
No it is not. If you want a better society and not one where you imprision as much as we do for no apparent gains... you work through rehabilitation. If you want a punishment system, congrats... you got it and you got a nation who puts more of its population in prison than any other nation on earth.
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I agree with you but prison is not a "rehabilitation center" it's punishment. If it wasn't people wouldn't use language like "you need to pay your debt to society."
 
apdst said:
Is this thread about prisons, or about drug laws?
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It's about governments finally being called out for making up too many laws to satisfy corporate prisons.
 
Pilot said:
That is generally true. The problem with this is that the government is funding the prison. I haven't seen to many businesses with large government contracts that count the pencils and paper clips.
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That may be true, but then when they have a fixed price contract that business is perfectly free to waste its profits on excess pencils and paper clips if they let their management and employees do so. In that case, the government's bottom line doesn't change.
 
apdst said:
All the things you propose are already in place. Why isn't rehabilitation going on?
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Because, private corporations are in charge of the prisons and they were created to make profits, not help people.
 
Hatuey said:
It's about governments finally being called out for making up too many laws to satisfy corporate prisons.
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Which laws have been made up to satisfy corporate prisons? Drug laws existed long before the idea of privitizing prisons came about.
 
Muddy Creek said:
Because, private corporations are in charge of the prisons and they were created to make profits, not help people.
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I don't disagree, which is why I never suggested that prisons should be privatized.
 
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