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US Marine kills two colleagues at Quantico base

Catawba said:
The Commander in Chief is the head of the military.
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Being the president doesn't grant someone a vast history of military experience or even a level of expertise on the matter. So I am unsure what we are suppose to take away from the fact he was elected commander in chief.

Catawba said:
And if it would make things safer for everyone to carry, why didn't they drop the gun control when there was a new Commander in Chief?
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I'm sure our military and government do, and carry on doing, many things you think are ill informed and dumb. In fact, one has to wonder about anyone that would assert some level of infallibility to either party's actions
 
cpwill said:
Are you, of all people, really astonished that the military leadership could make a poor decision? :confused:
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You have not shown it is a poor decision, nor have I heard any protest of the policy from base commanders. Got a link that shows that? I didn't think so.
 
MarineTpartier said:
No, evidently you don't understand the point (surprise surprise). The point is that military installations are:

A) Safer due to the people, not the lack of guns. We don't have losers with 10 kid by 10 different women dealing drugs and having turf wars on military bases. That's the point Jerry and I are making. If you want to solve gun violence there is only one answer to it. Let's all have a utopian, medicated society that loses all need to be individuals.

B) A military base is a protected area due to the very nature of what it is. It's a friggin military base. There are national security implications far beyond your scope. You see this as a social issue. It ceases to be a social issue aboard a military base. It is now an issue of national security more than social.

C) Speaking of guns on military bases. You can go aboard MCB Camp Lejeune right now and I guarantee you will see hundreds, yes hundreds, of Marines carrying their issued M16A4 or M4 carbine around like it is a back pack. 5.56mm ammo is very easily accessible to all of us as well. I could go to the rifle range and simply keep all of my rounds if I wanted to. I could hide them in my pack and leave the range with them. Then, I could wait until the next time I go to the field to train, put them in a mag, and go to town. But, I don't and neither do any other Marines. Why? Because it's against our nature to inflict pain upon those we care about and are to protect. Once again, it's people that make a difference, not the guns.
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I see, gun control is not important unless you don't want people walking around with guns without authorization even on military bases with select people. Makes sense to me!
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
Being the president doesn't grant someone a vast history of military experience or even a level of expertise on the matter. So I am unsure what we are suppose to take away from the fact he was elected commander in chief.
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Let's not forget the military has always been under civilian command. If you think gun control on military bases is not wanted by the base commanders, please provide a link to their protests since the policy was adopted in the 90s?
 
Catawba said:
Let's not forget the military has always been under civilian command.
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Which has absolutely no bearing on what I just wrote

If you think gun control on military bases is not wanted by the base commanders, please provide a link to their protests since the policy was adopted in the 90s?
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1) I'm not making a claim about what base commanders want. I am addressing your claims and the shoddy reasoning you are using to support them

2) commanders supporting the measure, or not, would not speak to them supporting it for safety implications or having a positive effect on safety
 
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Catawba said:
You have not shown it is a poor decision, nor have I heard any protest of the policy from base commanders. Got a link that shows that? I didn't think so.
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He was highlighting the fact that your premise rested on the idea that militery leadership was infallable.

Also, its rather laughable that you are so inept at debate that your response to the above is to ask for proof. FYI: you're the one making claims here and the burden of proof rests with you
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
He was highlighting the fact that your premise rested on the idea that militery leadership was infallable.

Also, its rather laughable that you are so inept at debate that your response to the above is to ask for proof. FYI: you're the one making claims here and the burden of proof rests with you
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I think the military is to be commended for only allowing those with authorization to carry weapons. Its a very sound gun control policy!
 
Catawba said:
I think the military is to be commended for only allowing those with authorization to carry weapons. Its a very sound gun control policy!
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...right, we get that. But you keep making claims beyond that, as well. Then asserting they are true based on various appeals to authority, tradition, etc
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
...right, we get that. But you keep making claims beyond that, as well. Then asserting they are true based on various appeals to authority, tradition, etc
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The military's gun control policy sets an excellent example for the rest of the country. That is my only point!
 
Catawba said:
The military's gun control policy sets an excellent example for the rest of the country. That is my only point!
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No you clearly have been making claims well beyond that
 
Catawba said:
I see, gun control is not important unless you don't want people walking around with guns without authorization even on military bases with select people. Makes sense to me!
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Good, I'm glad you finally came around on this issue.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Good, I'm glad you finally came around on this issue.
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Yes, I agree completely with military policy to only let those with special authorization carry weapons! Makes perfect sense!
 
Catawba said:
Yes, I agree completely with military policy to only let those with special authorization carry weapons! Makes perfect sense!
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It's not military policy. It's each individual bases policy. Some are different than others.
 
MarineTpartier said:
It's not military policy. It's each individual bases policy. Some are different than others.
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Which US bases allow everyone to carry weapons at all times? Links please?
 
Catawba said:
Yes, I agree completely with military policy to only let those with special authorization carry weapons! Makes perfect sense!
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Naturally you do. Since the military is not a free society, but instead a tyranny where your boss (who is also the government) can throw you into prison on his own say-so, who forces you into healthy living, who dictates your healthcare choices (which are poor), and enforces the most ninnyest of political correctness, someone of your ideological orientation would feel right at home :).
 
What exactly was the point of this thread?
 
Somebody was trying to make the point if guns really made someplace safer, the military would be allowed to carry on base. At least I think that was the point.
MarineTpartier said:
Yeah, I forgot a long time ago.:confused:
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MarineTpartier said:
...Yet, shootings still occur. This proves the point that no matter what we do, gun violence will happen when and where sicko's want it to. The least we can do is allow other, sane citizens the ability to defend themselves.
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But what if you were to know whether one is a sicko and is twice as more likely to re-offend than average due to low activity in the anterior cingulate cortex?

References:

Aharoni, E., Vincent, G. M., Harenski, C. L., Calhoun, V. D., Sinnott-Armstrong, W., ... Kiehl, K. A. (2013). Neuroprediction of future rearrest. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1219302110
 
cpwill said:
Naturally you do. Since the military is not a free society, but instead a tyranny where your boss (who is also the government) can throw you into prison on his own say-so, who forces you into healthy living, who dictates your healthcare choices (which are poor), and enforces the most ninnyest of political correctness, someone of your ideological orientation would feel right at home :).
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I had not realized you were anti-military. Thanks for sharing!
 
cpwill said:
you are correct - I did not. Major Hassan did that instead.
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If you think so, what are the comparative rates of intentional homicides with guns on military bases and among the general public in the US? :cool:
 
Catawba said:
I had not realized you were anti-military. Thanks for sharing!
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Cute, but stupid. And willfully so - you know better. It's not anti-military to recognize that those of us inside it have given up our freedoms in order to protect others'.

If you think so, what are the comparative rates of intentional homicides with guns on military bases and among the general public in the US?
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Among comparable communities, my bet would be they would be rather higher. You can't really compare "general pop" to "on-base" directly without filtering the first to ensure an apples-to-apples. After all, just because we have strict gun control, it doesn't make us Chicago. Which, of course, is a perfectly safe city where no one is ever killed with guns, since they are pretty much impossible to legally own there. :)
 
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