T.J. Lane Life Sentence

Peter King · Mar 20, 2013

Mr.Nick said:
Really?

I think some socialists would kill me for being a capitalist. I think some pro-choice groups would murder me for loving life..

Some of these political gangs will take a life to spare a life...

So this issue is not as cut and dry as it seems...

If you want to call bull**** on that I have a name - "Che" Ernesto Guevara - yeah that killer that the peace loving dope-heads run around with on their shirts or tatted on their bodies.

I am a social democrat. Never walked around with Che or supported him. I think he is more a pop culture image rather than an actual political inspiration with a lot of teens but that is a totally different issue.

And I do think it is pretty cut and dry, get rid of the death penalty and the cost of justice will go down considerably. Jailing death penalty inmates is more expensive than regular prisoners, and then I am not even talking about the original trial, jury sequestration, cost for legal representation and all the appeals. Lets face it, a capital case costs way more than a regular life without parole, some studies show capital cases to be between 42% more expensive to easily more than double the cost.

A study from Maryland has shown that their 5 executions cost the taxpayer 186 million dollars more than when normal life without parole sentences would have been asked.

California is bleeding money from the death penalty costs. They could save billions by abolishing it.

Even Texas has shown that (sorry but this is a bit older study) that at the time the study was done, Texas spent about 2.3 million dollars for every death penalty case, that was three times more expensive compared to imprisoning someone for 40 years in a single cell at the highest security level.

Peter King · Mar 20, 2013

CaptinSarcastic said:
Yes, and worse, when death penalty advocates learn how expensive it is to process someone through the entire capital punishment process, they argue it should be quicker and cheaper.

So what's THAT going to do to the number of innocents who get fried, injected, gassed, or otherwise terminated?

One can call themselves a conservative by supporting the death penalty but they certainly can't call themselves fiscal conservatives.

Any innocent person that gets murdered by the state because it got a so called fair trial (whoopee if you are innocent, you got sentenced to death for something that you didn't do but the state feels it did it in a fair manner) is one too many. And it is almost certain that people have been put to death that were innocent and many more are suffering the indignation of sitting on death row completely innocent.

Mr.Nick · Mar 20, 2013

Peter King said:
I am a social democrat. Never walked around with Che or supported him. I think he is more a pop culture image rather than an actual political inspiration with a lot of teens but that is a totally different issue.

And I do think it is pretty cut and dry, get rid of the death penalty and the cost of justice will go down considerably. Jailing death penalty inmates is more expensive than regular prisoners, and then I am not even talking about the original trial, jury sequestration, cost for legal representation and all the appeals. Lets face it, a capital case costs way more than a regular life without parole, some studies show capital cases to be between 42% more expensive to easily more than double the cost.

A study from Maryland has shown that their 5 executions cost the taxpayer 186 million dollars more than when normal life without parole sentences would have been asked.

California is bleeding money from the death penalty costs. They could save billions by abolishing it.

Even Texas has shown that (sorry but this is a bit older study) that at the time the study was done, Texas spent about 2.3 million dollars for every death penalty case, that was three times more expensive compared to imprisoning someone for 40 years in a single cell at the highest security level.

To be blunt and brief - I agree with you and I am personally against the death penalty. Too many people have been murdered IMO because of wrongful conviction.

I suppose I would consider such a punishment if there was a video showing an individual committing a gruesome murder/crime. Outside of that killing people is not right. The system is extremely flawed and a lot of innocent people have been murdered because of mistakes...

Imagine being at the wrong place at the wrong time and you end up on death row because you cant afford adequate council.. Then they kill you because you had a horrible lawyer...

So yeah - I'm anti-death penalty...

calamity · Mar 20, 2013

poweRob said:
I like the life thing. So all through the life of the families, they can always at least try to get some answers should they feel the need to.

Watching that video in the op, I can't help but notice the false bravado. The kids scared. No doubt about it.

As to answers? Who knows what makes these guys tick? He brought a gun to school a d shot some kids. When asked why he did it, he had no answer. Is he a bad apple, a little crazy; was he abused...who knows?

SMTA · Mar 20, 2013

calamity said:
Watching that video in the op, I can't help but notice the false bravado. The kids scared. No doubt about it.

As to answers? Who knows what makes these guys tick? He brought a gun to school a d shot some kids. When asked why he did it, he had no answer. Is he a bad apple, a little crazy; was he abused...who knows?

Yea, same thing that I was thinking.

The kid is scared ****less, and knows that his life is over.

Seems that his father also had a long string of felony convictions, including murder.

jmotivator · Mar 20, 2013

When the cell door closes in Solitary and he realizes that not a single living person gives a crap whether he lives or dies alone in that cell it will begin to sink in.

Mathematician · Mar 20, 2013

CaptinSarcastic said:
As to the argument (from other posts) that keeping the guilty alive is too expensive, I would have to point out that the cost of a capital trial, including mandatory appeals, cost far more than keeping a person incarcerated for 100 years.

Vengeance ain't cheap.

It shouldn't cost anything close to what it does. The system is extremely wasteful. It should take about 5 minutes and $0 to strap him to a guillotine and pull the cord.

Tigger · Mar 20, 2013

Peter King said:
Any innocent person that gets murdered by the state because it got a so called fair trial (whoopee if you are innocent, you got sentenced to death for something that you didn't do but the state feels it did it in a fair manner) is one too many. And it is almost certain that people have been put to death that were innocent and many more are suffering the indignation of sitting on death row completely innocent.

I'm sorry Peter, but if you're actually Innocent then there is very little chance of you being convicted. Now, people being Not Guilty of the crime they were charged with is a different topic. Personally, I'm willing to see any number of not guilty individuals executed to ensure that we get all the guiilty ones executed as well. Individuals like this piece of trash do not deserve to continue breathing.

Thankfully, real trash like this guy tend to get taken out by their fellow inmates a good deal of the time.

tessaesque · Mar 20, 2013

poweRob said:
"Sup newbie... I'm Dick McCock. They call me Beef. Whaddaya in for?"

And now for the rest of the day I'l have the **** meat sandwich scene from Harold and Kumar Go To Guantanamo Bay stuck in my head.

TheNextEra · Mar 20, 2013

Peter King said:
Funny, that people think that executing is cheaper than imprisonment.

If done right, it would be. I can understand appeals for some cases where "guilt" or "intent" may be in question. However, in this instance, guilt is known, accepted, and in this punk's case he even mocks at it. Kill the ****ing punk.

SMTA · Mar 20, 2013

tessaesque said:
And now for the rest of the day I'l have the **** meat sandwich scene from Harold and Kumar Go To Guantanamo Bay stuck in my head.

Better yet, Lane will never have to worry about constipation ever again.

CaptinSarcastic · Mar 20, 2013

Mathematician said:
It shouldn't cost anything close to what it does. The system is extremely wasteful. It should take about 5 minutes and $0 to strap him to a guillotine and pull the cord.

The actual killing of the person is not expensive, it is the trials, appeals, and incarceration of people ON TRIAL, and the maintenance of entire death row prison element.

Theoretically, in this case, and many others, I would be in full support of the death penalty, but realistically, my support would come down to making it impossible for an innocent to be handed this sentence, a degree of perfection I do not believe we can get to.

Hicup · Mar 20, 2013

Why not just tie him up in the city center and have citizens just stone him to death?

I mean seriously, in clear cut cases like this, what's wrong with that? In a society that already has sex, movies, and video games as graphic as can be, and available on-demand and to all ages, would stoning someone to death in full public view really be that disquieting?

Tim-

CaptinSarcastic · Mar 20, 2013

Tigger said:
I'm sorry Peter, but if you're actually Innocent then there is very little chance of you being convicted. Now, people being Not Guilty of the crime they were charged with is a different topic. Personally, I'm willing to see any number of not guilty individuals executed to ensure that we get all the guiilty ones executed as well. Individuals like this piece of trash do not deserve to continue breathing.

Thankfully, real trash like this guy tend to get taken out by their fellow inmates a good deal of the time.

A finding of not guilty is the ONLY finding a defendant can recieve,, there is no such finding as "innocent", so I am confused as to what distinction you are making here.

Are you suggesting that all people found guilty are guilty, and some of the people found not guilty are guilty, but none of the people found guilty are innocent?

Or are you suggesting that all people found guilty are guilty of "something", therefore it's okay to fry a few of them to make sure we kill the actually guilty one's?

If a person is not guilty of the crime they were tried for, they should not be subjected sentencing for that crime, but we have an imperfect system, so that is going to happen from time to time. Where my problem lies is that with death penalty cases, there is no possibility of correcting the mistake.

As I have said, I support the death penalty in theory, I support killing killers, in theory, but my opposition to killing people who did not commit capital crimes is greater than my support for killing those guilty of capital crimes. It is unnecessary, it is not a deterrant, it does not preclude punishment for the guilty, it simply allows for the impefection of the justice system and creates the possibility of correcting mistakes that do not exist when a person is killed.

Tigger · Mar 20, 2013

CaptinSarcastic said:
A finding of not guilty is the ONLY finding a defendant can recieve,, there is no such finding as "innocent", so I am confused as to what distinction you are making here.

Peter used the word Innocent, which is not the same as Not Guilty. Innocent is not, as you note, a legal finding. Innocent means having no guilt whatsoever. Not Guilty means not having been found guilty of the crime they are accused of.

CaptinSarcastic said:
Are you suggesting that all people found guilty are guilty, and some of the people found not guilty are guilty, but none of the people found guilty are innocent?

I am suggesting that all people found guilty are at least guilty of Gross Stupidity for allowing themselves to be in such a situation in the first place. If you are so utterly incompetent as to not be able to provide reasonable evidence to prove you are Not Guilty, then you probably are Guilty of something.

CaptinSarcastic said:
Or are you suggesting that all people found guilty are guilty of "something", therefore it's okay to fry a few of them to make sure we kill the actually guilty one's?

YES.

CaptinSarcastic said:
If a person is not guilty of the crime they were tried for, they should not be subjected sentencing for that crime, but we have an imperfect system, so that is going to happen from time to time. Where my problem lies is that with death penalty cases, there is no possibility of correcting the mistake.

That's very true. That has to be weighed against the substantial cost of incarcerating these worthless wastes of flesh and oxygen for decades JUST IN CASE additional evidence presents itself. Sorry but I do not believe that expenditure is warranted.

CaptinSarcastic said:
As I have said, I support the death penalty in theory, I support killing killers, in theory, but my opposition to killing people who did not commit capital crimes is greater than my support for killing those guilty of capital crimes. It is unnecessary, it is not a deterrant, it does not preclude punishment for the guilty, it simply allows for the impefection of the justice system and creates the possibility of correcting mistakes that do not exist when a person is killed.

It's not a deterent? Please show me a single executed criminal who has ever committed another crime after they were put to death.

grip · Mar 20, 2013

ThePlayDrive said:
Yeah, I'm curious to see him in 10-20 years. I don't know if he'll have any regret and sympathy, but I suspect he'll have a different perspective on the meaning of his actions.

He might be become a hardened inmate and never show any regret but his perspective will most likely change. Another thing is he tries to not look scared and act tough but he's definitely nervous.

Peter King · Mar 20, 2013

Tigger said:
I'm sorry Peter, but if you're actually Innocent then there is very little chance of you being convicted. Now, people being Not Guilty of the crime they were charged with is a different topic. Personally, I'm willing to see any number of not guilty individuals executed to ensure that we get all the guiilty ones executed as well. Individuals like this piece of trash do not deserve to continue breathing.

Thankfully, real trash like this guy tend to get taken out by their fellow inmates a good deal of the time.

You see, that is the problem with Conservatives. Normal people would say that it would be better to not put people to death but keep them alive by giving them a life sentence rather than risking just 1 innocent person of getting executed. The need for punishment or the arrogant opinion that we as human being have the right to find other people guilty AND then put to death. Yes, we have the right to find people guilty of a crime but we do not have the right to put people to death, that is my moral opinion but also an opinion because of the risk of being killed innocently.

And you actually think there is a very little chance of being convicted?

Northwestern University School of Law's Centre on Wrongful Convictions (CWC) documented 38 executions carried out since the mid-1970s where there was compelling evidence of innocence or serious doubt about guilt.

More than 140 people have been exonerated from death row. That is not a very little chance of being convicted.

Peter King · Mar 20, 2013

TheNextEra said:
If done right, it would be. I can understand appeals for some cases where "guilt" or "intent" may be in question. However, in this instance, guilt is known, accepted, and in this punk's case he even mocks at it. Kill the ****ing punk.

No, because even the trial section costs much much more than non capital cases. Factor in the costs of housing them, appeals (it is their right if they think they should not have been convicted to death) and all the other issues and you will find that most likely it will be more expensive.

Tigger · Mar 20, 2013

Peter King said:
You see, that is the problem with Conservatives. Normal people would say that it would be better to not put people to death but keep them alive by giving them a life sentence rather than risking just 1 innocent person of getting executed. The need for punishment or the arrogant opinion that we as human being have the right to find other people guilty AND then put to death. Yes, we have the right to find people guilty of a crime but we do not have the right to put people to death, that is my moral opinion but also an opinion because of the risk of being killed innocently.

Sorry, but considering the amount of money these states steal from their citizens to keep these wastes of flesh and oxygen in prison for extended periods of time already, I have no use for keeping them there any longer. Give them one appeal, then go to the SCOTUS if necessary. 24 hours after their appeals are turned down execute them. It's that simple. You also have to remember that I have exceptionally little regard for human life; which I find to be slightly less worthwhile than most single-celled organisms.

Peter King said:
You And you actually think there is a very little chance of being convicted? Northwestern University School of Law's Centre on Wrongful Convictions (CWC) documented 38 executions carried out since the mid-1970s where there was compelling evidence of innocence or serious doubt about guilt.

More than 140 people have been exonerated from death row. That is not a very little chance of being convicted.

I said that I believe there is very little chance of a truly innocent person being convicted. Especially in this day and age. They may not be guilty of what they're charged with, but I find it very hard to believe that most of those people were truly innocent individuals who were plucked off the street for no reason. How many of those 140 people had NEVER been involved with the law before they were arrested for the crime they were wrongly convicted of? I'd suggest that number is less than two.

justabubba · Mar 20, 2013

Hicup said:
Why not just tie him up in the city center and have citizens just stone him to death?

I mean seriously, in clear cut cases like this, what's wrong with that? In a society that already has sex, movies, and video games as graphic as can be, and available on-demand and to all ages, would stoning someone to death in full public view really be that disquieting?

Tim-

sharia law
i keep seeing objections to that being practiced in the USofA

justabubba · Mar 20, 2013

Tigger said:
I'm sorry Peter, but if you're actually Innocent then there is very little chance of you being convicted. Now, people being Not Guilty of the crime they were charged with is a different topic. Personally, I'm willing to see any number of not guilty individuals executed to ensure that we get all the guiilty ones executed as well. Individuals like this piece of trash do not deserve to continue breathing.

Thankfully, real trash like this guy tend to get taken out by their fellow inmates a good deal of the time.

yes, unless the unfortunate innocent put to death is someone you know and love
nevermind, i now realize that is not a possibility

Tigger · Mar 20, 2013

justabubba said:
yes, unless the unfortunate innocent put to death is someone you know and love
nevermind, i now realize that is not a possibility

If it was someone I knew, or a member of my family I'd be happy to throw the switch to remove them from society.

AreteCourage · Mar 20, 2013

Tigger said:
If it was someone I knew, or a member of my family I'd be happy to throw the switch to remove them from society.

Wow...only you....I may strongly disagree with you, but I admire the dedication you have to these beliefs.

Peter King · Mar 20, 2013

Tigger said:
Sorry, but considering the amount of money these states steal from their citizens to keep these wastes of flesh and oxygen in prison for extended periods of time already, I have no use for keeping them there any longer. Give them one appeal, then go to the SCOTUS if necessary. 24 hours after their appeals are turned down execute them. It's that simple. You also have to remember that I have exceptionally little regard for human life; which I find to be slightly less worthwhile than most single-celled organisms.

I am sorry, but ever heard of due diligence? Or the right for due process?

Tigger said:
I said that I believe there is very little chance of a truly innocent person being convicted. Especially in this day and age. They may not be guilty of what they're charged with, but I find it very hard to believe that most of those people were truly innocent individuals who were plucked off the street for no reason. How many of those 140 people had NEVER been involved with the law before they were arrested for the crime they were wrongly convicted of? I'd suggest that number is less than two.

I am sorry, but you get sentenced for a specific act, not for the other crimes you may or may not have committed. And even if they committed other offenses, if they are innocent of the things they were convicted of they were sentenced or executed wrongly.

Hicup · Mar 20, 2013

justabubba said:
sharia law
i keep seeing objections to that being practiced in the USofA

No it's called Timmy's law, actually it's not law, it's justice served! The way I see it it's win-win. The perps will still be evil, and no amount of punishment is going to deter the likes of this guy and recent events in VT, but the likelihood that these perps off themselves rather than being subjected to public torture is a great benefit to our society. We save on incarcerating them, and or putting them to death the nice way. I don't see a downside, do you?

Tim-

T.J. Lane Life Sentence

Peter King

Peter King

Mr.Nick

calamity

Privileged

SMTA

Tsuyo Ketsu no Anna

jmotivator

Computer Gaming Nerd

Mathematician

Tigger

tessaesque

Bring us a shrubbery!

TheNextEra

SMTA

Tsuyo Ketsu no Anna

CaptinSarcastic

Hicup

CaptinSarcastic

Tigger

grip

Slow 🅖 Hand

Peter King

Peter King

Tigger

justabubba

long standing member

justabubba

long standing member

Tigger

AreteCourage

Well-known member

Peter King

Hicup