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Explosion at Nevada Military Site May Have Killed "Several"......

Pentagon bans 60 mm mortar round after deaths.....

HAWTHORNE, Nev. (AP) — A mortar shell explosion killed at least seven Marines and injured several more during mountain warfare training in Nevada's high desert, prompting the Pentagon to immediately halt the use of the weapons until an investigation can determine their safety, officials said Tuesday.

The explosion occurred Monday night at the Hawthorne Army Depot, a sprawling facility used by troops heading overseas, during an exercise involving the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force from Camp Lejeune, N.C. Several Marines from the unit were injured in the blast, authorities said.

The Pentagon expanded a temporary ban to prohibit the military from firing any 60 mm mortar rounds until the results of the investigation. The Marine Corps said Tuesday a "blanket suspension" of 60 mm mortars and associated firing tubes is in effect.

The Pentagon earlier had suspended use of all high-explosive and illumination mortar rounds that were in the same manufacturing lots as ones fired in Nevada.

The mortar has changed little since World War II and remains one of the simplest weapons to operate, which is why it is found at the lowest level of infantry units, said Joseph Trevithick, a mortar expert with Global Security.org.

"Basically, it's still a pipe and it's got a firing pin at the bottom," Trevithick said. Still, a number of things could go wrong, such as a fuse malfunction, a problem with the barrel's assembly, or a round prematurely detonating inside the tube, he said.

The official said it would be normal to warn other U.S. military branches that use 60 mm mortars, such as the Army, about the Marines warning. The moratorium could last for weeks or months.

Pentagon bans 60 mm mortar round after deaths


Looks Like they have Warned the Army too. The Ban is up on them officially.

My question is 7 dead, 14 wounded. You usually have 3 on a gun, 3-4 guns on a line. So that's 10-15 dudes. A single round getting a hit on all of them and a kill on two gun positions?

1. Someone didn't dig mortar pits and is going to get fired after he gets' back out of the hospital or
2. Multiple round detonation. My thought process here is one round goes down, doesn't fire out, crew doesn't notice in the rapid fire, throws another one down the pipe out of muscle memory, both rounds go off in the tube or
3. everything that could go wrong, did. ridiculous amounts of everything.

One of my bosses is an old mortarman. His theory is that someone was practicing direct lay and anticipated the recoil, throwing a round up.
 
Nevada town mourns Marines who died in explosion.....

HAWTHORNE, Nev. (AP) — Hundreds of residents in a rural community steeped in military history turned out to mourn the loss of at least seven Marines as investigators arrived at an ammunition depot to try to determine how a mortar shell exploded at the Nevada base and sent shrapnel flying into troops during a training exercise.

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Families with children clutching small American flags were among the nearly 300 people who attended the brief memorial service, where a trumpeter played taps at a city park as a giant American flag flew at half-staff across the street from the base at dusk.

Even though the Marines were from the other side of the country, locals still feel a strong sense of pride in the military because the town's history is so deeply tied to the armed forces.

The town calls itself "America's Patriotic Home" and is home to the Hawthorne Ordnance Museum, which displays hundreds of shells, munitions, battery guns and weapons dating to World War II. Red, white and blue sculptures made of former shells and bombs are on display in town. Storefronts carry names like Patriot's Plaza. The sign on a business Thursday carried the message, "Please Pray For Our Marines."

The investigation will focus on whether the Marines followed procedures to properly fire the weapon, or whether there was a malfunction in the firing device or in the explosive mortar shell itself, the official said.

The Hawthorne depot opened in 1930, four years after a lightning-sparked explosion virtually destroyed the Lake Denmark Naval Ammunition depot in northern New Jersey, about 40 miles west of New York City. The blast and fires that raged for days heavily damaged the adjacent Picatinny Army Arsenal and surrounding communities, killing 21 people and seriously injuring more than 50 others.....snip~

Nevada town mourns Marines who died in explosion



For my Cuzins.....US Marines, Hard Corp! Hu-ah!
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My heart and thoughts go out to the families. Horrible events.

And my god...Harry Reid, you just got the nomination for this years Biggest Douche in the Universe Award. That's the epitome of political raping the dead and utilizing them as nothing but hollow political tools. Disgusting to an insane degree.
 
An explosion during a training exercise at a military ammunition storage facility in western Nevada has killed "several" people, with U.S. Marines among the dead, military officials said Tuesday.

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The explosion occurred late Monday night during a Marine training exercise at the Hawthorne Army Depot in western Nevada, said facility manager Russ Collier.

Hawthorne Army Depot is a 147,000-acre site used for the storage and destruction of demilitarized ammunition.....snip~

Seven Marines killed, seven more hurt in Nevada training blast
Reuters – 13 mins ago<<<<< more here.

We lost 7 Marines last night also 7 wounded.. Ammunition Is stored at Hawthorne. Looks Like Heaven was in need of some more Heroes!
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Morter are safe to handle, I'll bet the round which went off was the 3rd or 4th in a volly. The tube gets hot and will cook off the fuse if fire more than a couple at a time.
 
And please spare me the ' heaven needed more heros' crap, that's so generic and clishe, a very disrespectfull way for you to react to this.
 
And please spare me the ' heaven needed more heros' crap, that's so generic and clishe, a very disrespectfull way for you to react to this.

No it wasn't a disrespectful way for me to pay tribute to my Cuzins and honor those that have fallen. You may not like it.....and that's your choice. But don't bring me any of this condescending BS over Military Brethren ever again.
 
No it wasn't a disrespectful way for me to pay tribute to my Cuzins and honor those that have fallen. You may not like it.....and that's your choice. But don't bring me any of this condescending BS over Military Brethren ever again.
Yeah, being cliche is disrespectful because it's not genuine. Save it for the Hallmark cards. "Heaven needed more heros"? Seriously? What a bunch of crap. Your post was little better than Harry Reid blaming the accident on the sequestration today.

Fact is when you send more than 3-4 rounds down the tube you start risking a cook-off, especially if it's humid. From all we know so far, maybe the rounds were old. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the armory making a big mistake. Maybe the team fired off to many rounds causing a cook-off. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the fire team making a big mistake. Maybe the mortar was defective. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the manufacturer making a big mistake.

Under normal conditions, mortars are safe to handle and use. This isn't divine intervention, this isn't a ray of sunshine from the heavens disrupting the laws of nature and causing a supernatural event. Someone ****ed up. This was completely preventable.

I realize a lot of people want to resort to cliche bull**** because they're trying to cope, but the cold hard truth is this didn't have to happen, these Marines did not have to die, their deaths did not serve the greater good.
 
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I pray for the family and friends they left behind and the Lord their souls to keep.
 
Yeah, being cliche is disrespectful because it's not genuine. Save it for the Hallmark cards. "Heaven needed more heros"? Seriously? What a bunch of crap. Your post was little better than Harry Reid blaming the accident on the sequestration today.

Fact is when you send more than 3-4 rounds down the tube you start risking a cook-off, especially if it's humid. From all we know so far, maybe the rounds were old. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the armory making a big mistake. Maybe the team fired off to many rounds causing a cook-off. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the fire team making a big mistake. Maybe the mortar was defective. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the manufacturer making a big mistake.

Under normal conditions, mortars are safe to handle and use. This isn't divine intervention, this isn't a ray of sunshine from the heavens disrupting the laws of nature and causing a supernatural event. Someone ****ed up. This was completely preventable.

I realize a lot of people want to resort to cliche bull**** because they're trying to cope, but the cold hard truth is this didn't have to happen, these Marines did not have to die, their deaths did not serve the greater good.

Well you do know what they say about Opinions.....Correct? Seriously get over it and in no way is it anything like what Reid did. I understand your mind can't handle it. But let me know when you want me to make it easy for you. I can speak Jive to! "Sua Sponte" Sticks. ;)
 
My question is 7 dead, 14 wounded. You usually have 3 on a gun, 3-4 guns on a line. So that's 10-15 dudes. A single round getting a hit on all of them and a kill on two gun positions?

1. Someone didn't dig mortar pits and is going to get fired after he gets' back out of the hospital or
2. Multiple round detonation. My thought process here is one round goes down, doesn't fire out, crew doesn't notice in the rapid fire, throws another one down the pipe out of muscle memory, both rounds go off in the tube or
3. everything that could go wrong, did. ridiculous amounts of everything.

One of my bosses is an old mortarman. His theory is that someone was practicing direct lay and anticipated the recoil, throwing a round up.

If the round cooked off inside the tube, the fragments from the tube would create more lethality than what the round could create by itself.
 
Well you do know what they say about Opinions.....Correct? Seriously get over it and in no way is it anything like what Reid did. I understand your mind can't handle it. But let me know when you want me to make it easy for you. I can speak Jive to! "Sua Sponte" Sticks. ;)
What's 'jive'?
 
What's 'jive'?

It's kinda like that **** talkin you do.....and weren't you the one that was bitching about people throwing up military tributes too?
 
It's kinda like that **** talkin you do.....and weren't you the one that was bitching about people throwing up military tributes too?
Yes I was, and for the same reason: it's fake bull****.
 
Yes I was, and for the same reason: it's fake bull****.

Right.....That's what I thought. When did you start thinking for others. :roll:

Well with myself.....you will need to learn, adapt, and improvise. ;)
 
This is a tragedy. I was crushed to hear of this horrible accident. All those marines, dead and injured, right here on US soil. Heartbreaking.

And to those who are ****ting on their memory for their own perverse pleasure, **** you.
 
**** man. It's hard to imagine soldiers being killed outside of a war zone, but that just goes to show how dangerous the equipment is that they handle. Hope the families can get through this.
 
If the round cooked off inside the tube, the fragments from the tube would create more lethality than what the round could create by itself.

Yeah, but also reduced the blast radius.
 
Yeah, being cliche is disrespectful because it's not genuine. Save it for the Hallmark cards. "Heaven needed more heros"? Seriously? What a bunch of crap. Your post was little better than Harry Reid blaming the accident on the sequestration today.

Fact is when you send more than 3-4 rounds down the tube you start risking a cook-off, especially if it's humid. From all we know so far, maybe the rounds were old. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the armory making a big mistake. Maybe the team fired off to many rounds causing a cook-off. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the fire team making a big mistake. Maybe the mortar was defective. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the manufacturer making a big mistake.

Under normal conditions, mortars are safe to handle and use. This isn't divine intervention, this isn't a ray of sunshine from the heavens disrupting the laws of nature and causing a supernatural event. Someone ****ed up. This was completely preventable.

I realize a lot of people want to resort to cliche bull**** because they're trying to cope, but the cold hard truth is this didn't have to happen, these Marines did not have to die, their deaths did not serve the greater good.

You know, I reserved my opinion of you from the tuition assistance thread we were debating in but this one solidifies what I think of you. I'll keep that to myself as we are not in a section of this forum that allows that sort of exchange. To the point of the thread. I know you're a boot so let me school you up on your terminology because you are obviously not read up on indirect fire or the practice of it.

1) Most likely, if the military has halted firing of the round, that means they suspect that lot of round is defective. This has happened numerous times in the past few years because DOD is trying to skimp on spending by making us fire legacy rounds in all facets of combat arms.
Exhibit A) I was in Afghanistan in 2010 and an arty unit fired an illum round. The round functioned 100m outside of the tube. They halted firing of all visible illumination rounds and base ejecting fuzes until the investigation was over. Result? The fuzes were defective.
Exhibit B) A unit in 2nd BN 10th Marines fired an artillery round that detonated in the tube wounding 10. It was later found that the fuze was defective and all fuzes of that make are still on the do not fire list.
Marines, sailors hurt in Bragg explosion - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times
I say all of this because I noticed that you decided to "like" posts by other users that were very disrespectful of your fellow servicemembers. Especially the post alluding to withholding pity for these guys because they blew themselves up. You want to rant and rave about what you deserve in other threads but you can't give these guys the respect they deserve. At least what they deserve doesn't cost any taxpayer money, any of your's or my time, and nothing more than your silence if you agree with some of the heinous things being said on this thread.
2) The armory has nothing to do with ammo. That's where you draw weapons. What you were looking for was Ammunition Supply Point or ASP. It was most likely not the ASP's fault either if the round was defective (unless the round was Grade 3). That would be the responsibility of Joint Munitions Command.
3) This was not a cook off. A cook off is the act of a round prematurely being expended without the operator's input. In other words, the weapons system functions normally but the propellant prematurely ignites beginning the explosive train. The round still leaves the tube and goes where the tube is oriented. What this was is either a sticker round or an in bore explosion due to a faulty round. The heat of the tube does not cause the actual round to detonate. You should know that. The friggin round is point detonating, not heat detonated. You can literally put an open flame to a mortar or artillery round and it will not go off.

I would be defending these guys if they were Army, National Guard, or any other service. It's not because they're Marines. And I do believe that they are worthy of being called heroes. They were training to defend our nation. Something you and I both do as well. I don't care if it comes down that one of them or all of them were at fault. They were still training for combat. Ground side guys (I don't know what you are) risk their life everytime they train. It's hard to train for combat and not have accidents or incidents. Many people don't realize the risk taken by servicemembers everyday during training. That is heroic. The definition of heroic is a: exhibiting or marked by courage and daring b: supremely noble or self-sacrificing. Is it not courageous, daring, and self sacrificing to jump out of an airplane, deal with explosives that may kill you, trust the Marine on a machine gun to not shoot you in the back while maneuvering, etc during training? Yes, it is.
 
You know, I reserved my opinion of you from the tuition assistance thread we were debating in but this one solidifies what I think of you.
You aren't anyone, that I should worry about your opinion of me.

You're right, I'm not trained in indirect fire. I'm an engineer, not infantry, it's not my MOS and I don't claim to know everything about it. I appreciate correct nomenclature and I accept your correction.

As for the feel-good 'heaven needed more heros' bull****....saying something stupid like that is worse than incorrectly speaking of a cook-off. You're basic human being should know better than to say something stupid like that. I have exactly zero respect for people like that. Save it for Facebook.
 
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Some, yes..........................

I can't imagine but quite alot. I was an 0351 back in the day, and dealt a medium bit with small demolitions. I wouldn't be able to do the math off-hand, but a single 60mm mortar round would have a lot of blast absorbed by breaking through a mortar tube.
 
I would be defending these guys if they were Army, National Guard, or any other service. It's not because they're Marines. And I do believe that they are worthy of being called heroes. They were training to defend our nation. Something you and I both do as well. I don't care if it comes down that one of them or all of them were at fault. They were still training for combat. Ground side guys (I don't know what you are) risk their life everytime they train. It's hard to train for combat and not have accidents or incidents. Many people don't realize the risk taken by servicemembers everyday during training. That is heroic. The definition of heroic is a: exhibiting or marked by courage and daring b: supremely noble or self-sacrificing. Is it not courageous, daring, and self sacrificing to jump out of an airplane, deal with explosives that may kill you, trust the Marine on a machine gun to not shoot you in the back while maneuvering, etc during training? Yes, it is.
No hey I have no issue with that...paying respect is great even to the lowest military positions (not saying these guys were in such positions, just making the general statement that even the most inglorious never-deployed clerk deserves respect). I consider every member of infantry greater than myself because while I pulled my share of duties, I don't think I was ever 'in the ****' they way infantry are...not even close. Everyone gets mortared, everyone gets IED'd, every convoy/ECP takes small-arms fire...that I went through those events does not make me special.

You're complaining about lavish chow-halls, I'm complaining about a suspended TA program...neither of us are complaining about a blown off limb, and I think we need to keep that sort of context in mind when we talk about 'heros'.

This was not enemy fire, this was not a combat mission...this was a training accident. I'm sorry but there's nothing heroic about a training accident. It's just a tragedy. Yes they were very honorable people and yes they deserve respect....but when you toss around 'hero' so generically is disrespects those who actually earned it.
 
Looks Like Heaven was in need of some more Heroes!
...and just a quick FYI: if you don't want people like me entering your thread with contrary opinions...use the RIP tag when you make the thread. I respect the RIP tag, it's like a funeral and gives your thread a certain level of decorum. People like me will either play nice or leave those threads alone, and disrespecting an RIP tag will get the offender infraction points.

When you don't use the RIP tag, opinions like mine are fair-game to post.
 
What fires me up isn't a dozen servicemen injured or killed in a training exercise.

What FIRES me up is thousands of our brave soldiers dying to fight an unjust war that was sold to us with lies.

Saddam had no WMD's and no ties to the planning of 9/11.

You should damn well be FIRED up about that.
 
I can't imagine but quite alot. I was an 0351 back in the day, and dealt a medium bit with small demolitions. I wouldn't be able to do the math off-hand, but a single 60mm mortar round would have a lot of blast absorbed by breaking through a mortar tube.

You have to account for the pressure that doesn't escape through the muzzle building up, too. I'm not able to do the math to figger that, either.

On another note, do 60 crews operate with line platoons, stay close to company headquarters, or remain organic to the weapons platoon?
 
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