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Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old [W:245]

Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Napoleon said:
That is no different than simply handing over the streets of our cities to violent gangs and just telling tourists not to go there.
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No, it's recognizing that you can't control and sanitize everything


Napoleon said:
This has largely happened in this country because no one has the guts to do what needs to be done. If we do as you suggest, and go that route with rape, then we'll be no better than India with hordes of rapists roaming the streets and raping women in broad daylight in public.
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The point being expressed here is that the people should be punished to the extent of the law, and possibly even beyond it, and that the girl should have been more intelligent in her actions.

The attitude in India is that it isn't a really big deal

these do not =/=

Napoleon said:
You can't put yourself in a situation to be raped.
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Hey, bro, I'm sure if you're willing to put this theory to the test, we can take a collection up to send you out to the Congo. Hell, we could probably just put you in a skirt, start calling you meat-ass, and get you a short stint in state prison
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

I do not like this. Three teens get rip roaring drunk. Those boys were wrong yet are they really rapists if a teen female their age gets plastered out of her minds and leaves with them holding hands? Were they drunk as well?

No doubt they were in the wrong yet ... if you get inebriated and naked around inebriated teen boys there is no good outcome.

I feel for everyone involved. Those boys should be in JV detention and educated and so should the girl!

Okay ... kill me people.

There were no reliable witnesses as they were all drunk ... before she drank herself to a comatose state ...did she say or do anything that led them to believe she was consenting to touching.

The electronic age and kids sext ... including the girl.

I have a teen son and had to educate him because teen girls often sent pictures of themselves nude. I told him to never respond to them as he would get in trouble and not the girl.

They were all drunk and there are no witnesses to declare those boys were rapists beyond a shadow of a doubt that in her inebriated state before she drank herself to semi comatose that she did not act out sexually herself.

Shame on all of them and ... however since they do not know ... why are the boys being tagged with convicted felonies and rape charges when no one knows what happened.
 
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Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Dr. Chuckles said:
The point being expressed here is that the people should be punished to the extent of the law, and possibly even beyond it, and that the girl should have been more intelligent in her actions. The attitude in India is that it isn't a really big deal
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The prevailing attitude in India is that it is always the woman's fault; the woman did or wore something that invited men to rape her. That is why rapes are rarely ever reported and, in their society, it brings shame to the victim and their family. By any real moral standard, there are no actions which invite rape though you and others seem to be saying otherwise.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Dr. Chuckles said:
No one is trying to restrict what anyone does. We're just pointing out that people need to be aware of their surroundings and take basic steps to protect themselves. Like I do when I lock my car or home
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Maybe you missed the part about where she is 16 years old. She wasn't an adult and she wasn't thinking like an adult. She also stated that she believed one of boys who raped her would watch out for her if she drank too much.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Graffias said:
... And you obviously know nothing of Sharia, since it has some of the harshest penalties for capital crimes; rape carries an automatic death sentence.
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Yeah, it does carry an automatic death sentence... for the victims.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Napoleon said:
The prevailing attitude in India is that it is always the woman's fault; the woman did or wore something that invited men to rape her. That is why rapes are rarely ever reported and, in their society, it brings shame to the victim and their family. By any real moral standard, there are no actions which invite rape though you and others seem to be saying otherwise.
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I spent a little over 2 years cycling in India. I know what the attitude towards women is like and sexually assaulting a woman is just not seen as a big deal
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Snake Oil said:
You of course missed the entire point. I'll try to explain it so that even a retarded monkey on crack should be able to understand it... If the roles were reversed and a girl had put her hands down a drunken passed out boys pants and handled his junk, would we be having this conversation?
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If the girl was stupid enough to film herself sexually assaulting an unconscious male, then brag all over the school after it had been uploaded online, then yes, we'd be having this conversation.

If she had gone as far as these boys did, stripping her victim naked, taking naked pictures of the victim and distributing them online, then using her fingers to penatrate his body... also while laughing for the camera... we'd also be having this conversation...

...BUT I can guarantee it wouldn't be about how the boy should have protected himself by not getting drunk, because once he's unconscious and vulnerable, girls will be girls.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Risky Thicket said:
Maybe you missed the part about where she is 16 years old. She wasn't an adult and she wasn't thinking like an adult. She also stated that she believed one of boys who raped her would watch out for her if she drank too much.
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What part am I missing? I have been rather clear assaulting her in any form wasn't justified.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Napoleon said:
I've already pointed out these sex offender registration requirements apply to juveniles. The requirements for adults, with the exception of Tier III, are an additional 5 years for each tier. Do you need a link?
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I could care less... There is no such thing as "law" these days..... only statutes...

You can thank lawyers for the lack of standards and their precedence...

Those kids will never be in a sex offender database after they're 18....
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Mr. Invisible said:
She isn't guilty for getting raped. How about instead of telling women that they need to do X, Y, and Z to not get raped, we just tell men to not rape women?
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Funny that my soc class is doing a unit on group-think right now. You can't just issue a statement "don't rape women" and expect that to stop the mob of drunk undisciplined local celebrities free of adult supervision or consequence zombies.

It doesn't work that way. The group will set aside moral judgement and standards, so asserting moral judgement and standards will only get you villanised and psychically assaulted just for voicing a contrary opinion. Worse if you act on it. In a way it's a blessing to this girl that she was unconscious, because if she resisted the mob likely would have beaten or killed her on top of it all.

You have to undermine the group:
  • There needs to be parental authority in their lives.
  • The celebrity status in the town for being an athlete needs to be taken down several notches.
  • The town needs more exposure to the rest of the world.

Fortunantly, this conviction serves to undermine the group-think by highlighting their faults and adding consequence.

But you can't just tell a group to not do a crime and expect that they will obey.
 
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Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

I think every parent that had a kid a that party should be fined no less the $5k. We need to start holding parents accountable for these **** ups.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Rocketman said:
I think every parent that had a kid a that party should be fined no less the $5k. We need to start holding parents accountable for these **** ups.
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Yeah fine them and then give that money to the poor girl that was degraded for restitution maybe..... I'd be fine with that, but not give it to the government - that would just be sinister funk... That would make the government profit off rape.
 
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Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Has to be the most anticlimactic jury decision of all time. Considering all the evidence...no way this didn't end in a guilty verdict. And they really truly should have tried them as an adult and every other person on that team that was there and watched should be tried as an accessory.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Ray410 said:
Your response to a harsh analysis of the perpetrators of this incident is to immediately bleat that someone may be racist.

You should be ashamed of your limp wristed complete disregard for the suffering of the 16 year old victim and your hot eyed leap to wrap a cloak of warm Liberal goo around the brutality of the perpetrators. Liberals like you are precisely what causes things like this to happen to innocent children.
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By "perpetrators" you'd be referring to the defense that consisted of a black kid and a white kid... but you are "liking" and coming to the defense of a post that was bitching and whining about only the black kid's upbringing. Whodathunk you'd do that? Shock and surprise to the lot of us I'm sure.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Jerry said:
Funny that my soc class is doing a unit on group-think right now. You can't just issue a statement "don't rape women" and expect that to stop the mob of drunk undisciplined local celebrities free of adult supervision or consequence zombies.

It doesn't work that way. The group will set aside moral judgement and standards, so asserting moral judgement and standards will only get you villanised and psychically assaulted just for voicing a contrary opinion. Worse if you act on it. In a way it's a blessing to this girl that she was unconscious, because if she resisted the mob likely would have beaten or killed her on top of it all.

You have to undermine the group:
  • There needs to be parental authority in their lives.
  • The celebrity status in the town for being an athlete needs to be taken down several notches.
  • The town needs more exposure to the rest of the world.

Fortunantly, this conviction serves to undermine the group-think by highlighting their faults and adding consequence.

But you can't just tell a group to not do a crime and expect that they will obey.
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I know it doesn't work that way. We have to change our culture to respect women and look at them as human beings rather than objects.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Mr. Invisible said:
I know it doesn't work that way. We have to change our culture to respect women and look at them as human beings rather than objects.
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what culture has rape never existed in? Seems rather dependent on the fact we have sex drives and tend towards violence, as a species
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Dr. Chuckles said:
what culture has rape never existed in? Seems rather dependent on the fact we have sex drives and tend towards violence, as a species
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That doesn't make it OK, especially in the 21st century when we consider ourselves "civilized." Also, rape culture doesn't mean rape exists in a culture. Rape culture "is an environment in which rape is prevalent and in which sexual violence against women is normalized and excused in the media and popular culture." (Rape Culture)
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Mr. Invisible said:
That doesn't make it OK, especially in the 21st century when we consider ourselves "civilized." Also, rape culture doesn't mean rape exists in a culture. Rape culture "is an environment in which rape is prevalent and in which sexual violence against women is normalized and excused in the media and popular culture." (Rape Culture)
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Which is not what the culture is in any Western nation. Maybe "rape culture" exists in third-world backwaters like India and Congo. I do not see violence against women normalized or excused in the American, Canadian, Australia, or European media, though.

Rape is considered the most heinous crime by the majority of the population, as evidence by the hysteria and hyperbole surrounding the average rape case as well as calls for excessive punishments, such as "hang them" and "cut off their balls and stuff it in their mouths". Violence against women in general is considered unforgivable, while much violence against men is considered trivial and sometimes even amusing. Anyone who believes rape-culture exists truly is blind, brainwashed, mendacious, or just plain dumb.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Graffias said:
Which is not what the culture is in any Western nation. Maybe "rape culture" exists in third-world backwaters like India and Congo. I do not see violence against women normalized or excused in the American, Canadian, Australia, or European media, though.

Rape is considered the most heinous crime by the majority of the population, as evidence by the hysteria and hyperbole surrounding the average rape case as well as calls for excessive punishments, such as "hang them" and "cut off their balls and stuff it in their mouths". Violence against women in general is considered unforgivable, while much violence against men is considered trivial and sometimes even amusing. Anyone who believes rape-culture exists truly is blind, brainwashed, mendacious,
:lol:
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Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Mr.Nick said:
If you believe that then look up their names in a registered sex offender database 2-years from now and you will find nothing.

Then again I'm not familiar with Ohio criminal law, however I'm sure it's similar to Illinois.

If those rapist clowns moved out of state Ohio law/statutes don't apply to them.

Of course they will be branded any way you slice the cake because their names are all over the internet so they're screwed for life because the internet just doesn't go away. So I suppose the point of weather or not they will face a harsh life after their rapist actions is moot.
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Actually, most states have an agreement regarding the sexual offense registry. If you move to Texas from a state in which you were on the registry, you must also register with Texas. Michigan did/does the same thing. Moving from Texas to Kentucky, Tennessee, Colorado, Ohio, Michigan, Florida, and Alabama (just the ones I've seen first hand) requires re-registering in that state.

I think you're speaking on something you might not fully understand. I get the frustration w/the sentence, but assuming something that isn't legally possible will happen to justify your anger just doesn't move the discussion forward all that much.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Mr. Invisible said:
That doesn't make it OK
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I, in no way, suggested rape was ok. I'm pointing out regardless of how much we try to "change our culture" rapes are l;ikely still going to happen. The same with murder, theft, and violence, in general

Mr. Invisible said:
Also, rape culture doesn't mean rape exists in a culture. Rape culture "is an environment in which rape is prevalent and in which sexual violence against women is normalized and excused in the media and popular culture." (Rape Culture)
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and I really question if that actually exists here.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Mr. Invisible said:
She isn't guilty for getting raped. How about instead of telling women that they need to do X, Y, and Z to not get raped, we just tell men to not rape women?
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Well sure. And lets tell murders not to kill people, thieves not to steal ****, and drug dealers not to launder money.

Criminals don't usually respond to "that's illegal, bad, and immoral...so knock it off, alright?"

The fact is: crime will exist, period. Knowing that to be the case, it is the responsibility of likely victims to protect themselves. You don't leave your car unlocked when parked outside, you don't walk alone in a poorly lit parking lot in a bad part of town at night, you don't leave your front door open over night, you don't confront the guy dealing crack at the park down the street.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Napoleon said:
What I'm saying is that you can minimize it without restricting what women can/should wear, consume, or do. You can't attack the problem by telling women not to wear miniskirts or drink copious amounts of alcohol and, unfortunately, we have a justice system which favors the accused/guilty more than the victims and their families.
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Studies indicate that the way women dress has nothing to do with rape in most cases. Ignorant people spew nonsense about women "asking for it" when they dress provocatively, but most rapists aren't raping because of sexual attraction, they're raping because of the vulnerability present in the woman and the power and sense of control they feel by dominating her.

But telling a woman not to get fall-down drunk and completely unaware of her surroundings? That is TOTALLY on the table, because it plays into the means in which a man chooses his victim. We tell women to cover their drinks, never accept an open drink from a stranger, use test strips to ensure their drinks are spiked...and THAT'S okay...but telling a woman to maintain her facilities and sense of self by NOT getting plastered and somehow we're harming women? That's ridiculous.

If that's the case, then those little signs that tell you to hide expensive items and lock your car are an affront to honest car owners who shouldn't have to take any preventative action to avoid being robbed.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Dr. Chuckles said:
I, in no way, suggested rape was ok. I'm pointing out regardless of how much we try to "change our culture" rapes are l;ikely still going to happen. The same with murder, theft, and violence, in general
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It is unlikely we can eliminate rape(unlikely as in almost surely impossible). That does not mean that it might be possible to lower the prevalence of rape. Looking at country by country numbers, there is a huge difference in rate of rape per 100k people, far more than can be explained likelihood of reporting and differences in what is defined as rape. This is also true state to state inside the US.

On the other hand, it is not an easy thing to isolate out why the rates are higher or lower(too many variables) and I am not sure that good solutions do exist. I do think we can do better, and the first step is trying to find out what causes the variations in rate.
 
Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

Redress said:
It is unlikely we can eliminate rape(unlikely as in almost surely impossible). That does not mean that it might be possible to lower the prevalence of rape. Looking at country by country numbers, there is a huge difference in rate of rape per 100k people, far more than can be explained likelihood of reporting and differences in what is defined as rape. This is also true state to state inside the US.
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No on suggested we shouldn't try to minimize incidents of rape. I was highlighting the fact that since rapes occur, it doesn't serve as evidence that larger american culture normalizes or accepts such behavior.
 
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