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Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

Catawba said:
Yep, and with hybrid electrical systems like mine, people can use on-site solar power when the sun is shining and use grid power when its not, cutting the usage of grid power significantly.
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We have one HUGE building at the farm that is 100% off grid and our corporate cabin on a mountain top is not only all off-grid, but 100% on line. I am still a rank amateur at this, but some day if I ever manage to make enough money, I would like to build my last home similar to what you have: active solar heat supplementing ground heat pump, wind for basic power and grid when no wind - maybe some solar to support summer cooling (but fully designed as passive solar with massive heat sinks). Not pretending that would be cheap, but...well, you know why I would do it. My business partner down in WY built a house for his sister that has extremely effective passive solar heat and passive natural vent for cooling (in ground pipe in gulley gives cool air that circulates up and out through opening ridge windows that are for solar in summer). Also a semi-underground home (Northern exposure). Near zero carbon footprint in operation (does have natural gas for makeup heat, electric for lighting - does NOT need any a/c).

It just takes a little thinking and a lot of work or a fair chunk of change if you can't swing the former two.
 
apdst said:
You can't go 400 miles in an electric car. That's the whole point. It's another step in the process of breaking down the independence of the average American citizen.
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That sounds a bit nutter and paranoid. Why can't if just be a simple effort to plan for the future?
 
Cephus said:
You're clearly not listening.
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Just because you find the law inconvinient doesnt mean you can ignore it. There is a process for changing it. You should either pursue that process by convincing people to support your change, accept that you cant change it, or remove yourself from the system. Until then, the law is the law.
 
apdst said:
You can't go 400 miles in an electric car. That's the whole point. It's another step in the process of breaking down the independence of the average American citizen.
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The unfortunate reality is that far too many Canadians and Americans enjoy all of the independence and personal freedoms without the bother of taking the personal responsibility for their impact on their environment, their fellow citizens, citizens of the world and citizens of the future.
 
I don't understand why people focus so much on our government trying to do something to better the Earth and trying to stop it when there are so many other things you could focus your attention on that our government is messing up and wasting money on. Considering how our government spends its money, bettering our planet is hardly the biggest waste. It's not even in the top 100.
 
muciti said:
I don't understand why people focus so much on our government trying to do something to better the Earth and trying to stop it when there are so many other things you could focus your attention on that our government is messing up and wasting money on. Considering how our government spends its money, bettering our planet is hardly the biggest waste. It's not even in the top 100.
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This wont better the earth.
 
penn1954 said:
This guy is a freaking idiot!

We have tons of natural gas,vehicles will run

on it nicely and it is cleaner than gasoline.

Makes perfect sense to spend tons of $ on

electric cars when we can't build power plants!:sarcasticclap
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WEdon't have any natural gas, at least not in practical terms. Just like petroleum, multi-national energy companies are the only people equipped to harvest, process and market natural gas. Even if it comes from US soil, its never treated as ours. Drill here, drill now, sell to China while Americans continue to pay through the nose works for NG too, not just oil.

I do however wholeheartedly agree with you that we need new power plants all over this country. Natural gas should be included along with coal, nuclear, wind and solar as part of the all of the above strategy to generate more electricity. I'm especially excited about home electrical production to supplement the electricity available on the power grid and would be open to code requiring it in sunny and windy parts of the country for new construction. Should pay for itself over time anyway and the more of it that's on the market forces the costs to go down rapidly as well as brings about rapid technological improvements.
 
Cephus said:
Research doesn't come out of a wallet, they actually have to have an IDEA first. Most of the companies sucking on the government teat are just playing with the same old, tired, unworkable electric or hybrid vehicle ideas that we've wasted billions on already and are not closer to replacing gas-powered vehicles than they were decades ago.

Ideas first, funding later.
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Not true, my friend. Research as led to at least three new electric car batteries. One, the patent rights were bought out by the oil industry who then refused to allow anyone who use it. The other two are being perfected and are expected to hit the market in a couple of years. One of those reportedly will recharge 10 times faster that the best electric car batteries out now and will travel 10 times farther before needing to be recharged. Once out on the market, this will place many electric cars AHEAD of traditional gasoline cars in terms of range giving some a 1000 mile range that recharges in about a half an hour. They already blow away gasoline cars in terms of fuel costs since the electricity cost equivalent to recharge is only about $1.00 a gallon. Fortunately, this time the Department of Energy has jumped on board of this particular battery that has the indirect effect of preventing the oil industry from buying out the patent, shelving it and hoping nobody will hear about it.


A paper describing the research, “In-Plane Vacancy-Enabled High-Power Si-Graphene Composite Electrode for Lithium-Ion Batteries,” was published in October in the journal Advanced Energy Materials.

“We have found a way to extend a lithium-ion battery’s charge life by 10 times at the beginning of the battery’s life,” said Harold H. Kung, professor of chemical and biological engineering and the lead author of the paper. “Even after 150 charges, which would be one year or more of operation, the battery is still five times more effective than lithium-ion batteries on the market today.”

Researchers Design Rechargeable Battery with Improved Charge Capacity, Rate | News | McCormick School of Engineering | Northwestern University


Thanks to a group of MIT researchers, however, a new generation of leaner, more powerful, and easy-to-refuel batteries may be just around the corner. In a paper published in the May 20 edition of the journal Advanced Energy Materials, the group — led by MIT professors of material science Yet-Ming Chiang and W. Craig Carter — describe a novel approach to battery architecture that revolves around what they call a "semi-solid flow cell." [Read also "History Repeats Itself: Carmakers Again Put Electric Vehicles in Fast Lane"]

'Liquid' batteries could charge electric cars faster | MNN - Mother Nature Network


Ever wonder why you don't see more electric cars on the road? Maybe it's because oil companies control the patents for electric car batteries. ...
Chevron now controlled the patents on the battery technology best suited for electric car production, a curiosity considering Chevron banks on sustained or increased oil consumption to support their business. Technology that could propel the electric car into mainstream now rested with a company faced with decreasing demand and profit should electric car popularity explode.

Oil company ownership of battery patents threatens electric car production - National Conspiracy | Examiner.com
 
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muciti said:
I don't understand why people focus so much on our government trying to do something to better the Earth and trying to stop it when there are so many other things you could focus your attention on that our government is messing up and wasting money on. Considering how our government spends its money, bettering our planet is hardly the biggest waste. It's not even in the top 100.
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This is the REAL issue regarding this thread. The business of government SHOULD be to govern: i.e. legislate, regulate, enforce and provide needed infrastructure. PERIOD. Letting them play political games with our tax money (worse yet, DEBT) is so far outside of what SHOULD be their limits it is pathetic. And we all just sit idly by and let it happen.

What makes me laugh it the RRR (self Righteous Religious Right) gets the panties in a knot when the government threatens to limit their ability to own assault rifles but hand the same government the keys to their grandchildren's bank account and lets them run the entire country into the ground picking all kinds of winners and losers in business by dispensing privilege. What pees me off is the PCLL (Politically Correct Looney Left) cheering them on to do even more of the same things that have crashed the economy and beggared the nation for generations to come.
 
Cephus said:
Let us know when they come up with a battery design that doesn't pollute the planet as much as the gas-powered vehicles they're currently whining about. :roll:
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I'd be happy with just bankrupting Middle Eastern anti-Americanism, terrorism and OPEC/Dictator control over the US economy.
 
Smeagol said:
WEdon't have any natural gas, at least not in practical terms. Just like petroleum, multi-national energy companies are the only people equipped to harvest, process and market natural gas. Even if it comes from US soil, its never treated as ours. Drill here, drill now, sell to China while Americans continue to pay through the nose works for NG too, not just oil.
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Nothing could be further from the truth. ANYONE can - and thousands of individuals and independent producers DO produce natural gas from something as simple as their domestic water well to shallow (CBM) wells and conventional wells drilled intentionally into formations - as well as a LOT of gas produced from independent oil wells (it is dissolved in the oil in many cases). There are endless companies out there who buy the gas (or oil) at the wellhead for a fair price and move it along to the other end of the line - where US CONSUMERS buy the gas. There are no where near enough gas liquifaction plants in the US to put even a tiny dent in the amount of gas produced. There are no piplelines to China. Also, IF any LNG IS sold offshore, realize that gas at the wellhead in the US (upon which prices to US consumers are based) sells for 1/6th of the price that LNG gets in the Asian market. I would LOVE to be sticking it to the Chinese under those terms! (but, we aren't in any great scale).

I do however wholeheartedly agree with you that we need new power plants all over this country. Natural gas should be included along with coal, nuclear, wind and solar as part of the all of the above strategy to generate more electricity. I'm especially excited about home electrical production to supplement the electricity available on the power grid and would be open to code requiring it in sunny and windy parts of the country for new construction. Should pay for itself over time anyway and the more of it that's on the market forces the costs to go down rapidly as well as brings about rapid technological improvements.
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this IS what happens to natural gas on this continent. It is increasingly being used to fire both base load steam plants and gas turbine peaking plants. Where else can it go????? As to home generation: you need to check out the cost of that before getting too excited. There IS a fair bit of rationale in going with micro-turbines in small business (supermarkets, malls, etc.) but it is a bit capital intensive for the average homeowner (some equipment: Microturbine Capstone Microturbine ? Infinity Turbine ? Parts ? Service ? Waste Heat to Power - Organic Rankine Cycle ORC Turbine New ? Used ? Surplus ? Software ? Training ? Geothermal ? Waste Heat). The biggest concern is that if you do so based on today's price of natural gas (low $2s at the wellhead) and gas returns to the heat value equivalent of crude oil, you will be trying to generate power on a fuel that will be 6x the cost it is when you bought into the programme. Good luck with that one.

BTW: the domestic price of natural gas is so low precisely BECAUSE there is very little export capacity, and a HELL of a lot of new production - from big guys all of the way down to Mom & Pop operations in the back yard.

Also: the WORST thing that could happen has happened: gas is cheaper now that it has ever been (remember, correct for inflation). That means we are wasting it at an even faster pace, releasing ever more carbon that WAS safely sequestered in the rock reservoirs into the atmosphere.
 
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Smeagol said:
I'd be happy with just bankrupting Middle Eastern anti-Americanism, terrorism and OPEC/Dictator control over the US economy.
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You accomplish that overnight by simply stopping wasting 25% of the world's energy consumption with just 4% of its population. Oh: that and stop illegally invading sovereign nations whilly nilly and propping up tin-pot despots who slaughter their citizens by the millions.
 
tererun said:
Electric is not the only option out there, or the only option being researched. They are right, what you don't know about the world and how things works is pretty large, and it is made worse through the misinformation you are getting. research is one of the ways new ideas get developed. They are correct no one just comes up with a fully formed idea right off the bat. Especially when you are talking about something like a car. The only thing you are proving is that the uneducated and ignorant should have no place in deciding the direction of things. They cannot make a proper decision with no information or the wrong information. Not to mention being way to easily manipulated.
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In fact one tier of alternative energy research shows the potential of also addressing decreasing fresh water supplies as its only "pollutant" is purified water, which can be captured possibly for irrigation and even human consumption.

Another addresses reducing fuel requirements by using extra light-weight composite material for the car's bodies that is stronger than steel but as light as cardboard. Lighter weight means less fuel needed. They need to figure out a way to lower the cars' center of gravity and play with the aerodynamics to keep them from going airborne but that's all being worked on in the lab.

I'm personally excited that we live in an age where we get to see all these new technologies be developed. People alive 150 years ago couldn't have imagined the things we think of as routine. Instant global communications, transportation, refrigeration and indoor climate control, aviation, space technologies and off of the spin-offs, microwave cooking, digital entertainment media from DVD motion picture technology to digital music archiving to entire libraries featuring thousands of volumes that can carry anywhere and hold in your hand over a Nook, Kindle or iPad. Its amazing to me that so many people actively resist technological advancement, especially one that will save lives by bankrupting terrorism. :confused:
 
Catawba said:
Yep, and with hybrid electrical systems like mine, people can use on-site solar power when the sun is shining and use grid power when its not, cutting the usage of grid power significantly.

Additionally, with the use of electric cars we have the potential to cut our gasoline usage by 1/3 of the 45% of oil used in the US for gasoline! And, we have the added benefit of reducing the CO2 that is damaging the environment. That is why I support the research to make it even more feasible to wean vehicles off oil.
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The original point of the thread - and AGAIN, that research has been done and paid for. Why are you so willing to pay for the same research over and over again? You've expressed no desire to "wean vehicles off of oil", you want them to use electric vehicles when the vast majority of vehicles are internal combustion, you haven't spoken at all to transition.

Carbon is still the most efficient fuel source. Not worried in the slightest about CO2, I'm more worried about plain CO (and other polluting gases). But with modern emissions systems that's gotten much better.
 
cannuck said:
You accomplish that overnight by simply stopping wasting 25% of the world's energy consumption with just 4% of its population. Oh: that and stop illegally invading sovereign nations whilly nilly and propping up tin-pot despots who slaughter their citizens by the millions.
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Hardly a waste. Weve done great things with that energy.
 
Smeagol said:
Not true, my friend. Research as led to at least three new electric car batteries. One, the patent rights were bought out by the oil industry who then refused to allow anyone who use it. The other two are being perfected and are expected to hit the market in a couple of years. One of those reportedly will recharge 10 times faster that the best electric car batteries out now and will travel 10 times farther before needing to be recharged. Once out on the market, this will place many electric cars AHEAD of traditional gasoline cars in terms of range giving some a 1000 mile range that recharges in about a half an hour. They already blow away gasoline cars in terms of fuel costs since the electricity cost equivalent to recharge is only about $1.00 a gallon. Fortunately, this time the Department of Energy has jumped on board of this particular battery that has the indirect effect of preventing the oil industry from buying out the patent, shelving it and hoping nobody will hear about it.
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Let us know when they are on the market and the vehicles cost no more to purchase or operate than gas-powered cars, have the same recharge rates as going to a gas station and have the same range as gas-powered cars. Oh, and the production of the batteries can't be any more polluting than gas-powered cars either. If they can't make it as good as what we already have, then it's hardly a substitute.
 
Smeagol said:
I'd be happy with just bankrupting Middle Eastern anti-Americanism, terrorism and OPEC/Dictator control over the US economy.
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Mostly, that's because we insist on pissing off the Middle East and not using the oil reserves we have in the U.S. We cause most of our own troubles.
 
jonny5 said:
Hardly a waste. Weve done great things with that energy.
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We have also done a hell of a lot more damage than "great things". Sitting in traffic alone in a giant SUV for ten hours a week to drive to a job that probably doesn't need to be done is hardly a "good thing", never mind a "great thing".
 
cannuck said:
We have also done a hell of a lot more damage than "great things". Sitting in traffic alone in a giant SUV for ten hours a week to drive to a job that probably doesn't need to be done is hardly a "good thing", never mind a "great thing".
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No, I would definetly say that our energy usage has produced far more benefit than traffic. People wouldnt sit in traffic for an our if it wasnt benefitting them.
 
Cephus said:
Mostly, that's because we insist on pissing off the Middle East and not using the oil reserves we have in the U.S. We cause most of our own troubles.
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-- everyone seems to assume that if we drill for oil in the US, that we will get the oil. And hence, we won't be dependent on foreign oil anymore. But we won't get anything, Exxon-Mobil will.

The oil that comes from that drilling will not be United States property (Republicans aren't suggesting we nationalize the oil companies, are they?). It will be the property of whichever oil company got the rights to that contract. They can then sell it to whoever they like -- and they will.

If We Drill in the U.S., We Don't Get the Oil | Alternet
 
Smeagol said:
-- everyone seems to assume that if we drill for oil in the US, that we will get the oil. And hence, we won't be dependent on foreign oil anymore. But we won't get anything, Exxon-Mobil will.

The oil that comes from that drilling will not be United States property (Republicans aren't suggesting we nationalize the oil companies, are they?). It will be the property of whichever oil company got the rights to that contract. They can then sell it to whoever they like -- and they will.
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Absolute friggin rubbish.

First of all, oil is produced from a LEASE, not a contract. Those leases must come from the rightful owner of the mineral resource being produced. ALL such leases require that the owner of the mineral rights be paid a royalty, as well as various taxes to Federal, state and municipal governments. When the oil or gas is located on BLM land, the people of the United States of America are the owners and you do indeed get paid royalties by ANYONE who produces. Same goes for state lands - paid to state and for fee leases, the private owner of the mineral rights must be paid. The system of land registration guarantees that the leaseholder MUST pay royalties directly to the lessor, as that is REQUIRED as the function of anyone purchasing the oil or gas.

Exxon-Mobil is hardly the only player. There are literally THOUSANDS of independent oil and gas producers here. No big secret, just log onto ANY state oil and gas commission website and search the leases.

I am really starting to doubt the public education system in the US. What the hell have they taught you about your own country?????????
 
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