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Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

Catawba said:
45% of the oil consumed in the US is for gasoline. 4.6% of the oil consumed in the US is for plastics. You do the math!
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Can't screw the oil companies if you buy a car with all that plastic in it.
 
apdst said:
It can't be a simple plan for the future, if it doesn't do anything but hurt private citizens.
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It doesn't do that. I can't see any way it would hurt me at all.
 
apdst said:
Can't screw the oil companies if you buy a car with all that plastic in it.
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That is silly. I want the oil companies to extract oil.

I would love for cars to not run on oil.

Not funding crazy religious nut job death worshipers would be awesome.
 
Boo Radley said:
It doesn't do that. I can't see any way it would hurt me at all.
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So, you alone represent every other American? You're way more awesomer than I though, Boo. :rofl

What's good for Boo, is good for every other sum-bitch in the country. Am I right?
 
Catawba said:
45% of the oil consumed in the US is for gasoline. 4.6% of the oil consumed in the US is for plastics. You do the math!
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BTW, oil companies quadriple their profit margin with plastic production.
 
apdst said:
So, you alone represent every other American? You're way more awesomer than I though, Boo. :rofl

What's good for Boo, is good for every other sum-bitch in the country. Am I right?
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Not exactly what I said, but you must show harm, especially as nothing is mandated. You being far to paranoid.
 
apdst said:
Can't screw the oil companies if you buy a car with all that plastic in it.
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Was the math too difficult for you? I'll go with the use that is ten times less, thanks! But don't let that stop YOU from emptying your wallet each time you go to pay homage to the gas pumps.
 
jonny5 said:
You just can not admit when you are wrong, can you?
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I admitted I was wrong, here - "Mexico exports in 1 year just a little more than we consume in 1 day! Big whoop!" The difference is just not that great, and probably due to the slowdown of the recession.



I
 
apdst said:
BTW, oil companies quadriple their profit margin with plastic production.
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Good for them, at least it doesn't add to the CO2 problem like burning it does.
 
Smeagol said:
As an FYI, like your blender, ceiling fan and electric toothbrush, electric cars don't operate on metal against metal friction that requires motor oil.

As there is no transmission, many of the fluids you are used, such as transmission fluid and motor oil are eliminated.

2011 Nissan LEAF Performance and Handling

Reportedly, they also last way longer than gasoline cars are are predicted to rust out before they wear out as a sealed electric drive system is used instead of an internal combustion engine that requires regular "routine" maintenance just to keep it going that accounts for about half of the profits on gasoline cars by some estimates and pretty much guarantees to get you back n the show room for a new one every 3 to 5 years.

The Surprising Ways Car Dealers Make The Most Money Off You - Forbes
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Actually I am a machinist and I was making a joke. But for your information electric motors use ball bearings, at least the larger ones that one would used for a EV. Bushings are used in smaller motors usually though it depends on the manufacturer and duty rating.

The controller for a electric motor is more likely to need replaced long before the actual motor. But electric motors are not magic they indeed wear out. Bearings wear out the field coil heats up every time that the motor is on eventually making the motor less efficient. Then theres the batteries they are the main thing holding bake EV's. If it were not for the battery problem (and its a huge problem) I would have already converted my vehicles over to electric. I would love to have a electric motor in my truck I could use that kind of torque. But I looked into it and the conversation was cost about $40k 80% of that would be batteries that last a relatively short time. Much less time than a gasoline engine.

And well I never bought a new vehicle and never will I do all of my own mechanic work including machine work on the block etc. ANd That part you added about rust is quite comical really since there are farm tractor and hit-and-miss engines dating back to when engines were first invented that still run. All mechanical objects wear out though. Lol but if you take care of them they can last a good amount of time. My metal lathe for example was made in 1910 and its still going strong. The motor though that it came with died long before I owned it.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Yeah well Tesla IS my idol too.

I said Tesla WAS VIEWED as a crackpot NOT THAT HE IS PRESENTLY..

The best part is that we have nearly identical names and are into the same ****...

If reincarnation exists I'm him or I'm me.

Also, I don't need a history lesson - I'm probably one of the top 5 posters here on knowledge of history (among other subjects).
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I haven't seen enough of your post to make an fair and objective assessment on your self described knowledge of historical greatness.

I have read enough of your post to know that your admiration of Tesla has very little to do with your tenuous grasp on the fundamentals of Tesla's experiments or the fundamentals of electricity.

I have an admiration for Tesla because for the last 30 years I have studied electrical/electronic theory and have been involved in the practical electrical applications of everything from 2.7 megawatt generators down to troubleshooting PCB board level components. ( What I currently do for a living )
 
FreedomFromAll said:
The controller for a electric motor is more likely to need replaced long before the actual motor. But electric motors are not magic they indeed wear out. Bearings wear out the field coil heats up every time that the motor is on eventually making the motor less efficient.
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You are trying to tell me that all of those electric motor rewind shops actually have some work to do? Thought they lasted forever.

I would love to have a electric motor in my truck I could use that kind of torque. But I looked into it and the conversation was cost about $40k 80% of that would be batteries that last a relatively short time. Much less time than a gasoline engine.
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Got the pieces in my shop to convert an RX7 (FB) to AC electric. The battery pack is (was, it was stolen!) only $18k, but we got a deal on that one. I finished a gasoline engine for my best bud two years ago: it cost a LOT more than the RX7 conversion parts (batteries, motor, integrated drive/charger/controller and custom bellhousing to motor adapter) and has more torque than any electric motor that will ever fit in a car. It is also a hell of a lot more fun than a 50 HP electric RX7 will ever be - and would be lucky to see double digit fuel mileage on a really easy drive.

And well I never bought a new vehicle and never will I do all of my own mechanic work including machine work on the block etc. ANd That part you added about rust is quite comical really since there are farm tractor and hit-and-miss engines dating back to when engines were first invented that still run. All mechanical objects wear out though. Lol but if you take care of them they can last a good amount of time.
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BTW: My wife's last two Jetta TDs rusted out with 520k and over 650k on the clock. My FLD120 with DDECII is rolling over 1 million miles now - and the engine has never been touched. THAT is why diesel cars and trucks make so much sense.

My metal lathe for example was made in 1910 and its still going strong. The motor though that it came with died long before I owned it.
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Why are we talking about stuff like this in a vehicle/environmental thread? THIS is the kind of thing I keep coming back to. The real priority in resource conservation is to REDUCE consumption. I don't have a lathe that old, but my big compressor is pre-war, my little one was a good friend's first when he was a colour TV engineer - in Boston also pre-WWII (yes, there was colour broadcast TV before WWII), my 24" wood bandsaw dates back to the 20s, I have a set of adjustable Butterfield 2 1/2" round dies that are well over 75 years old and my valve grinder is B&D serial no 13! I'm not even all that good at taking care of things, but my grandson will be using these tools long after I am gone. This, IMHO, is the exact opposite of consumption - and the kind of mindset that is needed to even start to get a grip on what smart vehicle policy might actually be.
 
Catawba said:
The point, as you've explained it up to this point, is nutty. Perhaps if you rephrase, it will make some kind of sense.
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You're one of the only ones to think so from the opinions and data posted here. You might consider that you're just not getting it.
 
cannuck said:
You are trying to tell me that all of those electric motor rewind shops actually have some work to do? Thought they lasted forever.
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Yes I am lol


Got the pieces in my shop to convert an RX7 (FB) to AC electric. The battery pack is (was, it was stolen!) only $18k, but we got a deal on that one. I finished a gasoline engine for my best bud two years ago: it cost a LOT more than the RX7 conversion parts (batteries, motor, integrated drive/charger/controller and custom bellhousing to motor adapter) and has more torque than any electric motor that will ever fit in a car. It is also a hell of a lot more fun than a 50 HP electric RX7 will ever be - and would be lucky to see double digit fuel mileage on a really easy drive.
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A electric motor makes the same torque at all speeds. Well not all electric motors, its dependent on the controller and the type of motor. But what I was wanting to do it did. 1

But I have moved on to a similar idea as this Extended Range EV Trucks from VIA Motors



BTW: My wife's last two Jetta TDs rusted out with 520k and over 650k on the clock. My FLD120 with DDECII is rolling over 1 million miles now - and the engine has never been touched. THAT is why diesel cars and trucks make so much sense.
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Yes that is a good example of what I was talking about.

Why are we talking about stuff like this in a vehicle/environmental thread? THIS is the kind of thing I keep coming back to. The real priority in resource conservation is to REDUCE consumption. I don't have a lathe that old, but my big compressor is pre-war, my little one was a good friend's first when he was a colour TV engineer - in Boston also pre-WWII (yes, there was colour broadcast TV before WWII), my 24" wood bandsaw dates back to the 20s, I have a set of adjustable Butterfield 2 1/2" round dies that are well over 75 years old and my valve grinder is B&D serial no 13! I'm not even all that good at taking care of things, but my grandson will be using these tools long after I am gone. This, IMHO, is the exact opposite of consumption - and the kind of mindset that is needed to even start to get a grip on what smart vehicle policy might actually be.
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I bought a couple brand new shop tools once, I ended up selling them and buying old I guess you would say antique tools to replace them. Of course being a machinist I can easily repair the older tools. Not saying that they dont make equally as good new shop tools but who really wants to spend that kind of money when they dont have too? Most things like lathes and mills can being converted to cnc for the fraction of the price of a purpose built modern cnc machine. lol Not that I have a cnc machine yet my schedule hasnt allowed me to make one yet even though I have most of the parts that I need.


I agree with you are saying a lot of resources are wasted these days on disposable products. I used to manage a junk yard/recycling center a few years back and was always amazed at the perfectly good items that people discard. And my tool box loved the fact that junked cars had some very nice tools left in them. But I had to get out of that business when people started stealing copper and other metals and bringing them to me for money. I just dont like being around that type of people. Though now I am a first name basis with most of the police in the area lol.
 
captainawesome said:
That is silly. I want the oil companies to extract oil.

I would love for cars to not run on oil.

Not funding crazy religious nut job death worshipers would be awesome.
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That. And I like Veterans Day better than Memorial Day too.
 
apdst said:
BTW, oil companies quadriple their profit margin with plastic production.
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Great. They can still earn big profits on processing while using less of it, forcing the anti-American, terrorist bteeding ground, nuclear proliferation economy into replacing oil with the camel dairy and date sugar export industries!
 
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FreedomFromAll said:
Actually I am a machinist and I was making a joke. But for your information electric motors use ball bearings, at least the larger ones that one would used for a EV. Bushings are used in smaller motors usually though it depends on the manufacturer and duty rating.

The controller for a electric motor is more likely to need replaced long before the actual motor. But electric motors are not magic they indeed wear out. Bearings wear out the field coil heats up every time that the motor is on eventually making the motor less efficient. Then theres the batteries they are the main thing holding bake EV's. If it were not for the battery problem (and its a huge problem) I would have already converted my vehicles over to electric. I would love to have a electric motor in my truck I could use that kind of torque. But I looked into it and the conversation was cost about $40k 80% of that would be batteries that last a relatively short time. Much less time than a gasoline engine.

And well I never bought a new vehicle and never will I do all of my own mechanic work including machine work on the block etc. ANd That part you added about rust is quite comical really since there are farm tractor and hit-and-miss engines dating back to when engines were first invented that still run. All mechanical objects wear out though. Lol but if you take care of them they can last a good amount of time. My metal lathe for example was made in 1910 and its still going strong. The motor though that it came with died long before I owned it.
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Thanks. Something a read somewhere. Never said they would last forever, just pretty long and they don't need oil changes, which I'm sure you realize.
 
Catawba said:
I admitted I was wrong, here - "Mexico exports in 1 year just a little more than we consume in 1 day! Big whoop!" The difference is just not that great, and probably due to the slowdown of the recession.



I
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You just can not admit being wrong, can you?
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Yes a EV certainly takes less oil.
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A one time lubrication of the bearings before its factor sealed, not 5 quarts and a new filter every 3,000 miles, right?

Electric cars just seem like a much more efficient design. Of course I realize we have this massive infrastructure built around a one way and one way only automotive fueling model but in light of all to be considered with respect to the geopolitical reality, diminishing reserves with all indications showing us leading to more geopolitical conflict and instability*, the economic impact on consumers that reverberates throughout the economy I'm all about seeing other automotive fueling options added to the mix and electric vehicle show the most promise in the short term. Hydrogen over the longer term. I understand however up front it is a little costly but I see that as temporary just the get the pump primed no different than 720p HDTVs costing $15,000.00 each for the first couple of years or $10,000+ for the first digital cameras.

* Japan-China tensions, over oil or just rocks? - Channel NewsAsia
Russia's Arctic Circle claims worry NATO - UPI.com
BBC News - Argentina threatens legal action over Falklands oil
 
Is this the same guy that doesn't know the difference between gasoline ans diesel?? He should go back to checking tire air pressure and cleaning windshields.
 
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