• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

ernst barkmann said:
you need to read more....

if government did not protect life ,we would have anarchy....lawlessness
Click to expand...

Then fetuses can't be life, because they are aborted without causing anarchy.
 
sangha said:
However, you're the one who said the govt only has those powers granted to it by the constitution, yet you can't quote where the constitution says the govt has the power to protect peoples right to life.
Click to expand...

then what is the constitution for then?......it creates the federal government, defines their duties, and protects people's natural rights,........which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

life liberty and property are defined in the BOR, and due process of law protects those-------> named rights.
 
Muddy Creek said:
No, a fetus. It's not human until it voluntarily separates itself from the womb.
Click to expand...

Really, now . . .

There are a hell of a lot of people who came into the world through C-section and induced labor who would be very interested to know that they're not human.

But hey, if YOU say so . . .
 
ernst barkmann said:
the USSC court has translated it into ----->property.
Click to expand...

Ohhh, I see!!

Suddenly SCOTUS does have the power to "translate" the constitution.

So then I guess the decision by SCOTUS (in Roe v Wade) that the word "person" does not include the unborn is one you recognize as legitimate.


and you argument is wrong, because i have NOT stated the unborn is a citizen.

in fact i have argued THE case on YOUR side, but you never saw it, because your blind, -------->anything i say...is wrong because of a predisposed thoughts.

i stated i am NOT on the side of abortion, to have them, that it is my personal opinion, .......but as a libertarian, a person, a human being has a right to do with his body, property as he wills.

i argued that your body is YOUR property, meaning you have a right to do with it as you will and that means all property, as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others, this even means taking drugs.

as to the rant, i was not on my usual iMAC, early this morning and instead working off a small PC at another location, and after i saw my typing it was in large caps, and i was not going to retype it all over again.

as a libertarian, i do not believe in everything people do,........... however i recognize their RIGHT to do things anyway i believe to be wrong...............something you do not, when its comes to other matters of rights.......IE property.
Click to expand...

So you do believe that abortion is lawful, not murder and that the govt has no power to ban it under the constitution. I see that we're making progress.

Now if you could only point out where SCOTUS has said that "the pursuit of happiness" translates into "property", we might be able to finalize the demolition of your claims.
 
ernst barkmann said:
then what is the constitution for then?......it creates the federal government, defines their duties, and protects people's natural rights,........which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

life liberty and property are defined in the BOR, and due process of law protects those-------> named rights.
Click to expand...

Now you are contradicting yourself. You said that the govt has only those powers that the constitution has authorized.

Now, you're saying that the govt has the power to protect peoples right to life, even though you haven't shown where the constitution grants such a power.
 
ernst barkmann said:
i was talking about citizens, not about the unborn......and i have only used the word fetus 1 time, and that was referencing someone.
Click to expand...

If you're not talking about the unborn or abortion, then your posts are off-topic. Attempts to derail a thread are against the rules and could result in an infraction.

I suggest you either talk about the issue at hand, or get ready to be infracted
 
sangha said:
Ohhh, I see!!

Suddenly SCOTUS does have the power to "translate" the constitution.

So then I guess the decision by SCOTUS (in Roe v Wade) that the word "person" does not include the unborn is one you recognize as legitimate.
Click to expand...

what do you think pursuit is happiness is........i feel good today?

where have i stated abortion is illegal, should be stopped?

i have argued from the beginning, that you own you,. you are your property to use you body as you wish, as long as it does not infringe on others.......this also translates to .........material goods also.

sangha said:
So you do believe that abortion is lawful, not murder and that the govt has no power to ban it under the constitution. I see that we're making progress.

Now if you could only point out where SCOTUS has said that "the pursuit of happiness" translates into "property", we might be able to finalize the demolition of your claims.
Click to expand...

abortion is the law of the land, i don't like it, " but there it is"......and i have always believed that, as a libertarian........and until the hearts and minds of people change, abortion will be with us.

because i have listened the people of USSC court, and other constitutional judges speak on the subject, and they equate it to that.

from the DOI.........life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

from the 5th .........life, liberty and property.
 
sangha said:
If you're not talking about the unborn or abortion, then your posts are off-topic. Attempts to derail a thread are against the rules and could result in an infraction.

I suggest you either talk about the issue at hand, or get ready to be infracted
Click to expand...


where have i (stated) the (unborn) have a right?

where have i stated abortion is illegal?

where have i stated, government can ban it?

you will not find any such statements by me here.
 
ernst barkmann said:
where have i stated abortion is illegal, should be stopped?
abortion is the law of the land, i don't like it, " but there it is"......and i have always believed that, as a libertarian........and until the hearts and minds of people change, abortion will be with us.
Click to expand...

What you like is of no import.

Let me know when you have something to say that is relevant to the topic
 
DaLiberal said:
Anything with a brain is a being.
Click to expand...

The brain stem of a fetus does not even begin to function minimally until 7 weeks gestation and there is no consciousness until after 24 week gestation mark which is the limit of viability.

Only .08 percent of all abortions that place in the US take place at of after the 24 week mark.
These are the extreme cases. The cases where the woman's life is at risk or irreparable damage to major bodily function will take place if the pregnancy were allowed to continue, where the fetus died a natural death in the womb and was not expelled
( yes, the removal of a dead fetus or fetal material is still called an abortion and would be included in the .08 stats if the removal took place at or after the 24 week gestation mark ), when the fetus will be stillborn or when the fetus is so malformed it will only live a few minutes or hours.
 
Last edited:
ernst barkmann said:
(play on words here) so federal law, supersedes the 5th amendment, which means i am not secure in my property, because government can pass a federal law, which controls all i own-----> including my body?

so government is the great decider of rights, instead of its job of securing rights.
Click to expand...

In theory I totally agree. The first 10 amendments (Bill of rights) are secured from our creator. However, we are far down the rabbit hole as far as granting government the power of control over our rights. I don't think that is right, but at the same time I also have a tremendous belief that the most innocent, and defenseless among us (the unborn child), is a human being from conception, and deserves our protection.
 
minnie616 said:
The brain stem of a fetus does not even begin to function minimally until 7 weeks gestation and there is no consciousness until after 24 week gestation mark which is the limit of viability.

Only .08 percent of all abortions that place in the US take place at of after the 24 week mark.
These are the extreme cases. The cases where the woman's life is at risk or irreparable damage to major bodily function will take place if the pregnancy were allowed to continue, where the fetus died a natural death in the womb and was not expelled
( yes, the removal of a dead fetus or fetal material is still called an abortion and would be included in the .08 stats if the removal took place at or after the 24 week gestation mark ), when the fetus will be stillborn or when the fetus is so malformed it will only live a few minutes or hours.
Click to expand...

Are you saying consciousness is required for something to be a being?
 
Pilot said:
Are you saying consciousness is required for something to be a being?
Click to expand...

I was relaying what I found out about the brain of the fetus and its activity.
Draw your own conclusion.
 
Risky Thicket said:
1. How is that reported in the US Census?

2. Do zefs count as a person in state and federal income tax deductions?
Click to expand...

Do you need to be included in the US Census before you are a human being??? If you have a copy of this law could you submit a link?
 
Pilot said:
Neither of your points apply to illegal immigrants, are they not humans? I didn't realize the term "alien" was literal.
Click to expand...

Some suggest that these immigrants aren't human beings because they're not in the US Census. That makes for much fewer human beings in this world.
 
Pilot said:
That's a tough one. On one hand it is not fully developed, but is the lack of consciousness any different than someone in a comma? I'll have to ponder that for a while.
Click to expand...

Some coma patients do have some brain activity.
Whereas the patients we refer to as brain dead have no brain activity even though most of them had consciousness in the past.
 
Grant said:
Do you need to be included in the US Census before you are a human being??? If you have a copy of this law could you submit a link?
Click to expand...

What? LOL! Grant, that's the point. Zefs are not counted.
 
minnie616 said:
Some coma patients do have some brain activity.
Whereas the patients we refer to as brain dead have no brain activity even though most of them had consciousness in the past.
Click to expand...

Is brain activity the threshold of when babies might now be aborted? It seems the goal posts keep getting moved.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom