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Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

Muddy Creek said:
Since 1980, abortions have been hard to get. Between insurance denials, Medicaid denials, etc. there are not around.

More women turn to crack doctors and are dying in this nation. This blood in on the hands of those decrying the rights of women to a safe medical abortion.

Pennsylvania Employees Fired In Wake Of Abortion Scandal : NPR



Under Roe V Wade, legitimate abortion clinics had the law they had to follow. No live birth would have been terminated. These are the results of the radical right wing religious cult that calls to end the rights of women and force them into desperate situations.

Almost forget, since the murdering of doctors who perform abortions, the bombing of clinics, the availability of an abortion has decreased, as well.
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I remember reading about that case! I was horrified, as I am sure most people were! :(
 
ernst barkmann said:
Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons<----------, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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That quote does not give the govt the power to protect all human life. It only protects *people" from unreasonable search or seizures.

IOW, it protects the life of no one and nothing.

So where does the constitution say that the govt has the power and the duty to protect all human life?
 
Grant said:
Really? How many and how does it compare with other countries?
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Here's the only stats I could and they admitted there is no accurate records

Congressional Record - Congress - Google Books

But when you google dumpster baby deaths, you get this.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=5&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=statistics%20on%20babies%20f&cp=44&gs_id=2qt&xhr=t&q=statistics+on+babies+found+dead+in+dumpsters&es_nrs=true&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=statistics+on+babies+found+dead+in+dumpsters&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43287494,d.aWc&fp=a40d5a44b89bf8df&biw=976&bih=613

1,460,000 hits...albeit many may be duplicates. The stats for foreign nations I couldn't locate.

What does it matter? Women will get rid of pregnancies they are embarrassed by or afraid to have even after giving birth.

Wouldn't a medical abortion be a better solution for both the woman and the fetus?
 
Muddy Creek said:
Since 1980, abortions have been hard to get. Between insurance denials, Medicaid denials, etc. there are not around.

More women turn to crack doctors and are dying in this nation. This blood in on the hands of those decrying the rights of women to a safe medical abortion.

Pennsylvania Employees Fired In Wake Of Abortion Scandal : NPR
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This is a case of one demented doctor and em[ployees of the state not doing their jobs.. Do you have any evidence that this is a trend?



Under Roe V Wade, legitimate abortion clinics had the law they had to follow. No live birth would have been terminated. These are the results of the radical right wing religious cult that calls to end the rights of women and force them into desperate situations. Almost forget, since the murdering of doctors who perform abortions, the bombing of clinics, the availability of an abortion has decreased, as well.
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Do you have any evidence to support these claims?
 
Muddy Creek said:
Here's the only stats I could and they admitted there is no accurate records
1,460,000 hits...albeit many may be duplicates. The stats for foreign nations I couldn't locate.
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No, you don't know. No one does. So why did you say that "US being one with a great deal of dumpster babies found each year"?

What does it matter?
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Is this Hillary Clinton? What people say and do matters.

Women will get rid of pregnancies they are embarrassed by or afraid to have even after giving birth.
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That doesn't say much for 'women'.

Wouldn't a medical abortion be a better solution for both the woman and the fetus?
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How would that be good for the fetus?
 
Grant said:
This is a case of one demented doctor and em[ployees of the state not doing their jobs.. Do you have any evidence that this is a trend?





Do you have any evidence to support these claims?
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To the first, no. So this one woman was just not that important and we'll go ahead and allow it because, well, we dont think a death of one woman is important.

The evidence of the claims of what? That Roe V Wade is clear when an abortion may occur with a woman's decision only versus with her doctor, or that right wing nuts bombed abortion clinics and murdered doctors who performed abortions?
 
Bonzai said:
They also wanted to get me to try dog, but I told them upfront that unless I was starving, I wouldn't even think about eating one.................
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Yeah well I don't believe that story either. You're just full of it.
 
Muddy Creek said:
Here's the only stats I could and they admitted there is no accurate records

Congressional Record - Congress - Google Books

But when you google dumpster baby deaths, you get this.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=5&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=statistics%20on%20babies%20f&cp=44&gs_id=2qt&xhr=t&q=statistics+on+babies+found+dead+in+dumpsters&es_nrs=true&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=statistics+on+babies+found+dead+in+dumpsters&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43287494,d.aWc&fp=a40d5a44b89bf8df&biw=976&bih=613

1,460,000 hits...albeit many may be duplicates. The stats for foreign nations I couldn't locate.

What does it matter? Women will get rid of pregnancies they are embarrassed by or afraid to have even after giving birth.

Wouldn't a medical abortion be a better solution for both the woman and the fetus?
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I'm calling BS on that. Why not just drop the baby off in front of a church or firehouse? You could still remain anonymous, and not kill the baby. It would take much more than embarrassment or fear for someone to do that, which is why you almost never hear of it happening.
 
Muddy Creek said:
To the first, no. So this one woman was just not that important and we'll go ahead and allow it because, well, we dont think a death of one woman is important.
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Who are you referring to here???
The evidence of the claims of what? That Roe V Wade is clear when an abortion may occur with a woman's decision only versus with her doctor, or that right wing nuts bombed abortion clinics and murdered doctors who performed abortions?
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Perhaps it might be a good idea to offer some factual support for every claim you make.
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Grant said:
No, you don't know. No one does. So why did you say that "US being one with a great deal of dumpster babies found each year"?



Is this Hillary Clinton? What people say and do matters.



That doesn't say much for 'women'.



How would that be good for the fetus?
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You really think that all those deaths in the dumpsters is NOT important and that ONE death in a live baby left in a dumpster from a desperate woman is Okay? yeah, well, the left has long known that "pro-life" is not a stand on the right.

Why does it matter how many there are? Isn't one too many? And all those 1,460,000 represented reports on dumpster deaths of children. You dont' find that an alarmingly high rate of deaths of babies born and put in dumpsters or public places to die?

What do you mean that doesn't say much for women? Obviously, you enjoy a life without poverty, stress, abuse, suffering from criminal rape, incest, etc. My, aren't we high up on the food chain looking down at the least of these and calling Christ a liar?

It would be better for a fetus who had no feeling and no brain stem attached to die at that stage than the slow cruel death of being put in a dumpster.
 
Grant said:
Yeah well I don't believe that story either. You're just full of it.
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What's so unbelievable ? You think Asian people don't have their own culture?..............................
 
Grant said:
Who are you referring to here???


Perhaps it might be a good idea to offer some factual support for every claim you make.
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I was referring to the one woman who died whom you don't consider important.

Roe v. Wade

3. State criminal abortion laws, like those involved here, that except from criminality only a life-saving procedure on the mother's behalf without regard to the stage of her pregnancy and other interests involved violate the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which protects against state action the right to privacy, including a woman's qualified right to terminate her pregnancy. Though the State cannot override that right, it has legitimate interests in protecting both the pregnant woman's health and the potentiality of human life, each of which interests grows and reaches a "compelling" point at various stages of the woman's approach to term. Pp. 147-164.

(a) For the stage prior to approximately the end of the first trimester, the abortion decision and its effectuation must be left to the medical judgment of the pregnant woman's attending physician. Pp. 163, 164.

(b) For the stage subsequent to approximately the end of the first trimester, the State, in promoting its interest in the health of the mother, may, if it chooses, regulate the abortion procedure in ways that are reasonably related to maternal health. Pp. 163, 164.

(c) For the stage subsequent to viability the State, in promoting its interest in the potentiality of human life, may, if it chooses, regulate, and even proscribe, abortion except where necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother. Pp. 163-164; 164-165.

4. The State may define the term "physician" to mean only a physician currently licensed by the State, and may proscribe any abortion by a person who is not a physician as so defined. P. 165.

5. It is unnecessary to decide the injunctive relief issue, since the Texas authorities will doubtless fully recognize the Court's ruling [p115] that the Texas criminal abortion statutes are unconstitutional. P. 166.
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I'd offer the same to you. Be specific and back your allegations.
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Pilot said:
I'm calling BS on that. Why not just drop the baby off in front of a church or firehouse? You could still remain anonymous, and not kill the baby. It would take much more than embarrassment or fear for someone to do that, which is why you almost never hear of it happening.
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Wait. Are you REALLY sitting in judgment on these women? Are you REALLY that safe and secure in your life of leisure to think you could UNDERSTAND the desperation some women go through? Your wages poverty? You have 5 children and the husband left? You probably have not had a care or worry in the world and don't see how your particular station in life makes you UNWORTHY to judge others.

How old are you , if I may ask?
 
Why, yes there are accurate records. There are about 14 dumpster babies per year in the United States, according to very well-kept and very accessible death statistics, about 10x lower than the rate in European countries, (hits on Google being a million hits every time a million people shared one news article, the number of hits on Google is a silly answer to the question of how many babies). To call this "very high" is laughable, the numbers are in the thousands per year in Asian countries, excluding China. In China, workers at garbage dumps have testified to how many dead babies they personally find in the average day. (14 dead babies per day found per employee, and trillions of additional tons of garbage never looked through, assuming the unexamined garbage has babies in it at the same rate as the examined garbage, China throws away the equivalent of the population of the United States on a bi-weekly basis.) This is aside from the million female babies aborted every year in China because the parents wanted a boy. It is incredibly easy to have an abortion in China, yet they have so many dumpster babies, well illustrating that your contention that availability of abortion prevents dumpster babies, is an invalid assertion.
 
Muddy Creek said:
You really think that all those deaths in the dumpsters is NOT important and that ONE death in a live baby left in a dumpster from a desperate woman is Okay?
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You seem to know how the quote system works. Would you please quote where I said that?

yeah, well, the left has long known that "pro-life" is not a stand on the right.
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Again, use some facts to support your claims. Don;t confuse your opinion with reality.

Why does it matter how many there are? Isn't one too many? And all those 1,460,000 represented reports on dumpster deaths of children. You dont' find that an alarmingly high rate of deaths of babies born and put in dumpsters or public places to die?
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There were 1,460,000 reports on dumpster babies yet no records exist? That seems like quite a few with no one noticing? Did these occur all in one year? One month? Any idea?

What do you mean that doesn't say much for women? Obviously, you enjoy a life without poverty, stress, abuse, suffering from criminal rape, incest, etc. My, aren't we high up on the food chain looking down at the least of these and calling Christ a liar?
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Calling Christ a liar???

But yes, I am high up on the food chain and it happened because I am an educated and responsible person. Your personal assessment of women doesn't gibe with any of those I know. Perhaps you should offer some stats for your claim.


It would be better for a fetus who had no feeling and no brain stem attached to die at that stage than the slow cruel death of being put in a dumpster.
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I doubt you should speak for either a fetus or women.
 
Muddy Creek said:
Wait. Are you REALLY sitting in judgment on these women? Are you REALLY that safe and secure in your life of leisure to think you could UNDERSTAND the desperation some women go through? Your wages poverty? You have 5 children and the husband left? You probably have not had a care or worry in the world and don't see how your particular station in life makes you UNWORTHY to judge others.

How old are you , if I may ask?
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Yes, I am judging anyone who would dump a baby in a dumpster.

Your post is disturbing. Who are we to question or judge anyone? Let's just do away with the courts and have a free for all.
 
Bonzai said:
What's so unbelievable ? You think Asian people don't have their own culture?..............................
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I don't believe your stories. It has nothing to do with Asian cultures.
 
AmericanWoman76 said:
Why, yes there are accurate records. There are about 14 dumpster babies per year in the United States, according to very well-kept and very accessible death statistics, about 10x lower than the rate in European countries, (hits on Google being a million hits every time a million people shared one news article, the number of hits on Google is a silly answer to the question of how many babies). To call this "very high" is laughable, the numbers are in the thousands per year in Asian countries, excluding China. In China, workers at garbage dumps have testified to how many dead babies they personally find in the average day. (14 dead babies per day found per employee, and trillions of additional tons of garbage never looked through, assuming the unexamined garbage has babies in it at the same rate as the examined garbage, China throws away the equivalent of the population of the United States on a bi-weekly basis.) This is aside from the million female babies aborted every year in China because the parents wanted a boy. It is incredibly easy to have an abortion in China, yet they have so many dumpster babies, well illustrating that your contention that availability of abortion prevents dumpster babies, is an invalid assertion.
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I think some of your figure are in error. The idea that there are that many abortions in China is preposterous...................
 
AmericanWoman76 said:
Why, yes there are accurate records. There are about 14 dumpster babies per year in the United States, according to very well-kept and very accessible death statistics
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BS

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/dec/31/news/cl-6641

Carol McCarty, a Los Angeles advertising executive, has teamed up with Debi Faris, an advocate for abandoned babies and force behind the new law, to create public awareness. McCarty contacted Faris after reading about Faris' widely publicized Garden of Angels, a Calimesa, Calif., cemetery where 44 abandoned newborns from Southern California have been buried in the last four years. Faris also created an entity called Safe Arms, to focus on prevention and to publicize the new law.
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There are no authoritative statistics on the number of abandoned newborn babies. In 1998, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services found, by compiling reports from newspapers around the country, that 105 newborns had been abandoned--33 of them were found dead.
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I absolutely cannot stand people using google hits for statistics. I just googled "U.S. Presidents"... apparently the have been three hundred and sixty four million U.S Presidents...
 
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