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Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

I did not say a fetus is a body part I said the fetus is attached to the woman. I said a pre viable fetus cannot live apart from the woman and that it was not a separate entity until it is born.

And there have been hundreds (if not thousands) of cases where premes survived outside the mother. So who are you to determine the validity of a life?

You may as well say old people who need constant care should just be murdered because they couldn't survive on their own.

Guess what? an infant cant survive on it's own.... Hell, generally a kid younger than 5-years-old probably couldn't survive on its own.



I suppose your point is moot.
 
And there have been hundreds (if not thousands) of cases where premes survived outside the mother. So who are you to determine the validity of a life?

You may as well say old people who need constant care should just be murdered because they couldn't survive on their own.

Guess what an infant cant survive on it's own.... Hell, generally a kid younger than 5-years-old probably couldn't survive on its own.

I suppose your point is moot.

No, premies can't survive without machines. And the US has the HIGHEST mortality rate of newborns in all the technological world. We LOSE baby because they ARE born early.
 
A fetus is a person and an individual. You have no damn proof to prove otherwise.

I was due on October 12th, I was born on September 17th - does that not make me valid as a human because I wasn't birthed on time? or was I only valid on October 12th or later?

A fetus is not a person.

As far as not being born on time, you are now grasping for something relevant to say; so desperate that you have to pretend that abortion has something to do with punctuality :lamo
 
What is the constitution but a group of individuals philosophical beliefs? Have you gone absolute on me now?

You don't know what the constitution is?

I'm not surprised

Random or not, the constitution is simply a group of people's best stab at discerning Truth, at best. And we have seen that often is wasn't a very good stab, or at least it's interpretation and implementation were not.

No, it's nothing of the sort. It takes a delusional understanding to think it is anything but a political and legal document that describes the organization and powers of our system of govt.


So now you are trying to take us from the discussion about when an unborn child actually becomes human, to the idea that conception itself is some nebulous process for which we can't fix a precise point. Why the shift?
You haven't yet provided an argument to my point that because we can't define when an unborn child becomes human, we should err on the side of caution and call it at conception. Now you want to equivocate on the point of conception?
As the tail may wag their dog, so the dishonest persons conclusions must wag their facts.

It doesn't matter when a living thing becomes a human. The only thing that matters is when it becomes a person, and that happens at birth. Until then, the constitution offers it no protection



“That is, in human reproduction, when sperm joins ovum, these two individual cells cease to be, and their union generates a new and distinct organism. This organism is a whole, though in the beginning developmentally immature, member of the human species. Readers need not take our word for this: They can consult any of the standard human-embryology texts, such as Moore and Persaud’s The Developing Human, Larsen’s Human Embryology, Carlson’s Human Embryology & Developmental Biology, and O’Rahilly and Mueller’s Human Embryology & Teratology.” – Dr. Robert George

It says nothing about the fetus becoming a person, and even if it did it wouldn't matter

And it says nothing about any fictional "moment of conception"
 
Progressive Democrats of America





As to the criminals in this nation, they legally buy their guns now at gun shows and on the internet where NO background check is currently required. If you think background checks won't hinder the supply of guns to criminals, then you've not studied the issue at all.

BTW, next time let's agree on the definitions of the political spectrums of the two parties before we talk about them. Agreed?

As you can see from the above, the progressives ARE like liberals and the fascists like the current right wing.

You think gun dealers sell guns to gangbangers at gun shows?

No sorry, the guns the gangsters buy are smuggled, stolen or are purchased 3rd party.

Buying a gun isn't exactly like buying candy at a gun show - at least if you're some shady strange dude that looks like a psycho or gangbanger.

Gun dealers just don't sell guns to anyone who wants one. However, I could go to the ghetto and buy one with no problem whatsoever. I could go buy a Mac 10 right now for $100 off some gangster on the streets with 10 bodies on it - and that Mac definitely didn't come from a reputable fire arms enthusiast - it came from a cartel.
 
You have said (If I remember correctly from your post) that a child is not a person until it is born. Is that your personal belief, or is that simply the law as it exists today, or both?

A fetus is not a person as that word is used in the constitution.
 
A fetus is not a person.

As far as not being born on time, you are now grasping for something relevant to say; so desperate that you have to pretend that abortion has something to do with punctuality :lamo

You're not in a position to make that determination.

If I really wanted to I could say the moon is made out of cheese and stick to that and be as snug as you.
 
You think gun dealers sell guns to gangbangers at gun shows?

No sorry, the guns the gangsters buy are smuggled, stolen or are purchased 3rd party.

Buying a gun isn't exactly like buying candy at a gun show - at least if you're some shady strange dude that looks like a psycho or gangbanger.

Gun dealers just don't sell guns to anyone who wants one. However, I could go to the ghetto and buy one with no problem whatsoever. I could go buy a Mac 10 right now for $100 off some gangster on the streets with 10 bodies on it - and that Mac definitely didn't come from a reputable fire arms enthusiast - it came from a cartel.

Yeah, right. No one cares who comes in to buy a gun at a dealer show. They want to make a profit. Do you think the gangsters come in wearing their colors and punching people?

You have a lot to learn about the type of criminals in this nation. Gun Dealers would sell it to the neighbor who threatened to kill the gun dealrer's grandma if he could make a buck.

Then, we have the ebay and other online sites that sell guns. Think they require a web cam to sell it?
 
Here is fact - abortion meets the criteria of first degree murder.

We have already established that you are willing to make dishonest claims and present them as facts. There's no need to provide further evidence of this

Funny how someone can be charged with murder for shooting or punching a pregnant woman in the stomach, however that same woman on that same day could go get an abortion and it's perfectly fine... If a "fetus" isn't human, than how can the criminal system charge someone with murder? oh yeah, because the only thing that matters in that instance is NOT weather the fetus was valid but its about weather or not the mother wanted the baby.

See how that works?

You have anything to say about that?

I think it's sick that you think an violent assault is funny
 
Abortion has nothing to do with privacy - there is absolutely nothing private about it considering we're talking about TWO individuals (one wanting to murder the other).

If someone wanted to mutilate themselves I could care less - THAT would be a privacy issue, however murdering someone is NOT a privacy issue. Attempting to portray abortion as a "privacy issue" is nothing more than a lame attempt to justify murder. That's what people want to do - justify abortion my any and all means necessary.

Calling abortion a privacy issue is like putting a mask over the criminals face. It doesn't change the fact it's wrong it just cloaks it in mystery.

There is only one person. The fetus is not a person
 

None of those laws define a fetus as a person, nor do they address the issue of abortion
 
We have already established that you are willing to make dishonest claims and present them as facts. There's no need to provide further evidence of this



I think it's sick that you think an violent assault is funny

The only dishonest person here is you because you keep on making crap up that suits your position on the issue.

All you keep on saying is that "a fetus is not a person" and all I ask is that you prove it but you cant.

Since you can't prove that it would be better NOT to just assume a fetus is not a person...

All you're doing is making brash assumptions with confidence and that is highly arrogant.
 
there is no confusion,.........you own you.

the government does not own you, you are not property of the state.

to have reproductive rights as you say, means you have control of your body, and no other person or entity does,........ before you are your own property.

No one owns you. You are the property of no one and no thing.
 
for some REASON you keep ASSOCIATING ME WITH HAVING SAID GOVERNMENT CAN BAN OR REGULATE ABORTION, AND I NEVER<--------- MADE SUCH A STATEMENT...........AT ALL.........I STATED VOTING WAS REGULATED BY THE FOUNDERS.

so you need to get you statements tied to the correct person that made them..........because i never did.

I have never claimed that you were for or against abortion. I asked for you to quote from the constitution where it says the govt has the power to regulate or ban abortion

So far, you have failed to do so.

And it is very hypocritical to complain about being asked questions about things you haven't said when you have done the same thing dozens of times in this thread. It is cowardly to expect others to do what you are unwilling to do.
 
you list yourself as a conservative, and you see i am getting fire from YOU ,as well as LIBERALS.

oh i am smart enough, its just those here who are not smart enough to answer, my questions.......i exclude<-- you from them...

You have gotten answers to every question you asked, but you are unable to answer my one question:

Where does the constitution say that the govt has the power to ban or regulate abortion?
 
I'm sure some states will call it that. I'm really not concerned or care about the language considering feticide is the same as homicide and carries the same penalty... Of course - that is - only when the mother wants the child.

You can split hairs all you like, but that doesn't change the fact individuals are prosecuted all the time for killing what you refer to as NOT a valid form of life.

No, you're not concerned with the language. That's why you insist on calling feticide "murder" :roll:

The dishonesty of your claims is obvious
 
You have gotten answers to every question you asked, but you are unable to answer my one question:

Where does the constitution say that the govt has the power to ban or regulate abortion?

Where does it say guns can be regulated, or vehical emissions, or food, etc etc...
 
Yeah, right. No one cares who comes in to buy a gun at a dealer show. They want to make a profit. Do you think the gangsters come in wearing their colors and punching people?

You have a lot to learn about the type of criminals in this nation. Gun Dealers would sell it to the neighbor who threatened to kill the gun dealrer's grandma if he could make a buck.

Then, we have the ebay and other online sites that sell guns. Think they require a web cam to sell it?

You ever been to a gun show?

You can tell the difference between someone who collects guns and who wants one to kill someone. A gun dealer will not sell a gun to someone that wants to kill someone.

You clearly have no experience with gun owners or dealers. Go try to buy a gun just to do it and see what happens. They will size you up and if you don't know what you're talking about or look like you don't know what the hell you're doing they won't sell you a gun.

You better believe gun dealers, owners, traders etc know what they're selling or trading can take a human life and that is a lot more serious than a profit. 100 bucks profit is not worth a human life - I know to a selfish progressive it is (because you assume we're greedy rednecks obsessed with murder) but not to us responsible folk.

Go learn something about us "gun nuts" before you make insane accusations.
 
The only dishonest person here is you because you keep on making crap up that suits your position on the issue.

All you keep on saying is that "a fetus is not a person" and all I ask is that you prove it but you cant.

Since you can't prove that it would be better NOT to just assume a fetus is not a person...

All you're doing is making brash assumptions with confidence and that is highly arrogant.

fetus /fe·tus/ (fēt´us) [L.] the developing young in the uterus, specifically the unborn offspring in the postembryonic period, in humans from nine weeks after fertilization until birth.

Prior to the nine weeks it's called a

The sperm and egg unite in one of your fallopian tubes to form a one-celled entity called a zygote. If more than one egg is released and fertilized, you may have multiple zygotes.

The zygote has 46 chromosomes — 23 from you and 23 from the father. These chromosomes will help determine your baby's sex, traits such as eye and hair color, and, to some extent, personality and intelligence.

Soon after fertilization, the zygote travels down the fallopian tube toward the uterus. At the same time, it will begin dividing rapidly to form a cluster of cells resembling a tiny raspberry. The inner group of cells will become the embryo. The outer group of cells will become the membranes that nourish and protect it.
Week 4: Implantation

By the time it reaches the uterus, the rapidly dividing ball of cells — now known as a blastocyst — has separated into two sections.

The inner group of cells will become the embryo. The outer group will become the cells that nourish and protect it. On contact, it will burrow into the uterine wall for nourishment. This process is called implantation.

The placenta, which will nourish your baby throughout the pregnancy, also begins to form.

Fetal development: The first trimester - MayoClinic.com
 
The only dishonest person here is you because you keep on making crap up that suits your position on the issue.

All you keep on saying is that "a fetus is not a person" and all I ask is that you prove it but you cant.

Since you can't prove that it would be better NOT to just assume a fetus is not a person...

All you're doing is making brash assumptions with confidence and that is highly arrogant.

I have already posted the quote from RvW that proves that the unborn are not persons
 
No, you're not concerned with the language. That's why you insist on calling feticide "murder" :roll:

The dishonesty of your claims is obvious

I don't care what you want to call it... The definition of knowingly and intentionally taking ones life in the English language is Murder.

You can call that action a shoe for all I care.

However you're a shining example and product of "whole language." Whole language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now doesn't that whole language thing sound familiar?
 
[h=3]ba·by[/h]/ˈbābē/
Noun
A very young child, esp. one newly or recently born.
 
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