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Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

Pilot said:
Actually, it may be in violation of the ruling.



Looks like the state is very limited in the second trimester, which 12 weeks would fall under.
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The "trimester" structure is no longer good law. It was updated in Casey on a test of "viability."
 
Ikari said:
What about women who don't know until they go into labor? I mean, should they be forced to care for a baby they knew nothing about?
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dont know, i said that way more rare LMAO than the common occurrence or not knowing until 12 weeks.

also they wouldnt be forced to care for it they can give it up?
 
Harshaw said:
The "trimester" structure is no longer good law. It was updated in Casey on a test of "viability."
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I stand corrected. I'll have to read up on that.
 
Ikari said:
Don't you mean pro-choice with very light restrictions?
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thanks (i fixed it) but actually i just meant pro-choice with restrictions

why do you think they are light? especially since i haven't really gone into detail, id just call them restrictions.
 
Objective-J said:
thanks but actually i just meant pro-choice with restrictions

why do you think they are light? especially since i haven't really gone into detail, id just call them restrictions.
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It comes off as "I'll give them nearly 6 months to figure out they're pregnant and to abort the baby, and after that...well, I could probably see letting more happen, whatever" more than any form of stringent oversight or restriction.
 
Ikari said:
1.)So there are statistics on this then, care to share them?



Couldn't this argument cut both ways?
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1.) yeah they have been posted before, well, when a woman commonly finds out has been posted before NOT how many woman dont find out until they go into labor LMAO
when i feel like looking ill see if i can find them

2.) not sure if i understand what you are saying, are you saying that banning abortion doesnt force a woman to care for her child because she could give it up?
 
Ikari said:
It comes off as "I'll give them nearly 6 months to figure out they're pregnant and to abort the baby, and after that...well, I could probably see letting more happen, whatever" more than any form of stringent oversight or restriction.
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oh thats how it comes off to you? seems you have a good imagination since again i didnt go into detail :shrug:

like i said im fine with a soft ban at 21/22 weeks since that viability and then case by case.
 
Harshaw said:
The "trimester" structure is no longer good law. It was updated in Casey on a test of "viability."
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The limit of viability ( meaning 50 percent will survive ) is 24 weeks gestation.
It has remained unchanged for the last 12 years.
No fetus less than 21 weeks and some days has ever survived. Experts say no fetus younger than 21 weeks will ever survive even with medical help as their lungs are not developed enough.

Roe vs Wade set viability between 24 weeks and 28 weeks gestation.
 
minnie616 said:
The limit of viability ( meaning 50 percent will survive ) is 24 weeks gestation.
It has remained unchanged for the last 12 years.
No fetus less than 21 weeks and some days has survived. Experts say no fetus younger than 21 weeks will ever survive even with medical help as their lungs are not developed enough.

Roe vs Wade set viability between 24 weeks and 28 weeks gestation.
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I . . . do not know why you said this to me.
 
Deuce said:
Keep in mind that for some period of time you might not even be aware of the pregnancy.
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Yeah - I know . . . that's how it was for me for two of my kids.
 
Rocketman said:
Because only an idiot would not realize she was pregnant in 3 months
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well you are factually wrong :shrug:

many woman have a very light period or no period at all on BC so some times when it fails theres no reason to suspect they are pregnant until something more than spotting or not having a period.

Sorry, facts dont change simply because you dont like them
 
Objective-J said:
oh thats how it comes off to you? seems you have a good imagination since again i didnt go into detail :shrug:

like i said im fine with a soft ban at 21/22 weeks since that viability and then case by case.
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So 5.5 months and then likely more after that, but not exactly guaranteed.

It's pretty much as I said before. And yes it's without you going into details, and maybe those details would show you aren't quite as flippant as your overview statements make you seem to be.
 
Objective-J said:
1.) yeah they have been posted before, well, when a woman commonly finds out has been posted before NOT how many woman dont find out until they go into labor LMAO
when i feel like looking ill see if i can find them
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Yeah, it would be great if you backed up what you are saying with actual numbers and studies.

Objective-J said:
2.) not sure if i understand what you are saying, are you saying that banning abortion doesnt force a woman to care for her child because she could give it up?
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It very well could be used in that light.
 
12 weeks seems very reasonable. There is no rational reason I can think of to let it go beyond that. Hell, even in Russia they have a 12 week limit. You can pretty much walk into any clinic prior to that and get an abortion no questions asked. Once you reach 12 weeks, though, you're SOL. Medical emergencies only.
 
Ikari said:
1.)So 5.5 months and then likely more after that, but not exactly guaranteed.

2.)It's pretty much as I said before. And yes it's without you going into details, and maybe those details would show you aren't quite as flippant as your overview statements make you seem to be.
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1.) of course its not guaranteed, theres scenarios where I still think its should be legal after 21/22 weeks but not many, the majority of rights should go to the ZEF after 21/22 weeks and before that the majority should go to the woman.
2.) doubtful because its your bias that makes you view it as flippant, not anything factual
 
Objective-J said:
2.) doubtful because its your bias that makes you view it as flippant, not anything factual
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No, it was your argument that seems flippant. As I said, perchance in your more detailed explanations it would come across differently. Don't get all pissy with me, you're the one who wrote the sentences.
 
Ikari said:
1.)Yeah, it would be great if you backed up what you are saying with actual numbers and studies.



2.)It very well could be used in that light.
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1.)Maybe i will but its already be done so im not really concerned with it
but if you dont think that theres a large amount of women that dont find out they are pregnant around 12 weeks or later you simply djust dont know. But like i saidif i have a chane ill look. It was posted in a thread and Rapidalpaca also was holding strong at the 12 week mark and the links made him soften some but only some.

2.) who cares is there somebody that says banning abortion forces a woman to care for her child? Ive never seen that argument evere
 
Ikari said:
No, it was your argument that seems flippant. As I said, perchance in your more detailed explanations it would come across differently. Don't get all pissy with me, you're the one who wrote the sentences.
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yes, seems flippant to you because of your bias :shrug:
no body is pissy im laughing at your assessment, but it seems you are pissy LOL
 
Objective-J said:
1.)Maybe i will but its already be done so im not really concerned with it
but if you dont think that theres a large amount of women that dont find out they are pregnant around 12 weeks or later you simply djust dont know. But like i saidif i have a chane ill look. It was posted in a thread and Rapidalpaca also was holding strong at the 12 week mark and the links made him soften some but only some.
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I don't know actually, that's why I asked for the stats. I want to know if this is just one of those things people randomly make up or if it's real. Usually when people refuse to back up their claims with measured values, it means they are making it up.

Objective-J said:
2.) who cares is there somebody that says banning abortion forces a woman to care for her child? Ive never seen that argument evere
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Ever, huh? Alright, I'll pocket it till later.
 
Hatuey said:
Prices of abortion providers may be a factor in when a person decides to have an abortion.
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Heavens - imagining discount on abortions after 16 weeks or something?

Most abortions are done in the first 12 weeks (before 9, actually) - and it's less of a procedure the earlier it is.
 
Ikari said:
1.)I don't know actually, that's why I asked for the stats. I want to know if this is just one of those things people randomly make up or if it's real. Usually when people refuse to back up their claims with measured values, it means they are making it up.



2.)Ever, huh? Alright, I'll pocket it till later.
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1.) i understand, its real though, like i said if i have time maybe ill look back

wonder if theres a way to do a search and cross reference my name and rapidalpacas? might make it easy

2.) yes ever, not that i have ever read, the argument is forcing her to risk her life against her will not keeping the baby after its born LOL
 
Objective-J said:
well you are factually wrong :shrug:

many woman have a very light period or no period at all on BC so some times when it fails theres no reason to suspect they are pregnant until something more than spotting or not having a period.

Sorry, facts dont change simply because you dont like them
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We have 4 kids, there was no doubt within 6 or 7 weeks, like I said only an idiot
 
Rocketman said:
We have 4 kids, there was no doubt within 6 or 7 weeks, like I said only an idiot
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and yet you are still factually wrong, you having that many kids doesn't change anything LMAO
 
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