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Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

Muddy Creek said:
What's immoral about an abortion?
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It's the taking of a human life.

About a woman deciding WHEN to be pregnant, HOW MANY TIMES to be pregnant and by WHOM? How is that not responsible.
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If a woman did all that there would be no need for an abortion.
You on the right are always saying that women need to be responsible. You take away their access to birth control and then HOLLER because abortion is needed if a woman does NOT want to be pregnant. how is THAT not INSANE?
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I have never advocated taking away access to birth control. You're wandering off here.
Sorry, but you have no moral issue here.
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That's not your decision to make.
.
And the pro-choice people are supporting the woman's right to decide her life
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But of course it extends much further than that.
WE don't know her circumstances. WE won't help her financially.
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In fact we do.

WE won't help her emotionally.
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It's clear you should be speaking for yourself here.

SHE is responsible for making her life. We are pro-abortion. We aren't making that decision for her. We are giving her the right to MAKE that decision if SHE wants.
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If she is responsible for all of this why expect emotional support, financial support, etc.?

Why have you mentioned religion so often? Are you still promoting abortion from a religious point of view?
 
Grant said:
It's the taking of a human life.



If a woman did all that there would be no need for an abortion.


I have never advocated taking away access to birth control. You're wandering off here.


That's not your decision to make.
.


But of course it extends much further than that.


In fact we do.



It's clear you should be speaking for yourself here.



If she is responsible for all of this why expect emotional support, financial support, etc.?

Why have you mentioned religion so often? Are you still promoting abortion from a religious point of view?
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The fetus isn't human. It's a gestation period of developing cells. It's not life nor human until it is born and the umbilical cord, which gives it sustenance, is cut.

Taking away birth control and the right to decide WHEN to have a child, how MANY children to have and by WHOM takes away a woman's civil right to privacy in her life and over her reproductive organs. YOU don't have that right. YOU don't have that power.
 
Grant said:
Muddy Creek said:
Actually they can continue living after you die. Then other living things, like worms and flies, can take over.
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No, they die. They can't sustain a life because they are housed inside the womb and take sustenance from the woman. She isn't giving sustenance, it dies. It is not life. It is not separate.
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Muddy Creek said:
The fetus isn't human. It's a gestation period of developing cells. It's not life nor human until it is born and the umbilical cord, which gives it sustenance, is cut.

Taking away birth control and the right to decide WHEN to have a child, how MANY children to have and by WHOM takes away a woman's civil right to privacy in her life and over her reproductive organs. YOU don't have that right. YOU don't have that power.
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Who is taking away any birth control over even advocating it? Are you still using religion to promote abortion? Can you please respond to the post rather than to the noises in your head?
 
Grant said:
Who is taking away any birth control over even advocating it? Are you still using religion to promote abortion? Can you please respond to the post rather than to the noises in your head?
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Congress under the demand of the right wingers have removed it from Medicaid. Hobby Lobby refuses as do other corporations, to offer it in their health insurance plan. And MANY insurance companies are jumping on the band wagon. Why do they allow Viagra do you suppose?
 
Muddy Creek said:
Congress under the demand of the right wingers have removed it from Medicaid. Hobby Lobby refuses as do other corporations, to offer it in their health insurance plan. And MANY insurance companies are jumping on the band wagon. Why do they allow Viagra do you suppose?
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So because they are not giving away 'free' birth control they are disallowing access? Do you genuinely not understand the difference?

Are you still using religion to advocate abortion? Do you still believe the Bible is God's word?
 
Grant said:
So because they are not giving away 'free' birth control they are disallowing access? Do you genuinely not understand the difference?

Are you still using religion to advocate abortion? Do you still believe the Bible is God's word?
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Yeah, basically. YOu think people who get Medicaid have money left over for birth control? How much do you make?

That religion card is played on all the "morality" of abortions....that's how I play it. Who cares what I believe . It's right wing nuts who use the bible quotes to go after our civil rights, not the democrats.
 
Muddy Creek said:
Yeah, basically
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Do you understand what 'access' means?
That religion card is played on all the "morality" of abortions....that's how I play it. Who cares what I believe . It's right wing nuts who use the bible quotes to go after our civil rights, not the democrats.
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I care because you are using the Bible to support your pro abortion stance. I'm just curious as to whether you are a hypocrite or not. Or are you a 'right wing nut'?
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Muddy Creek said:
These are moot points. The decision of WHEN to be pregnant, by WHOM, and HOW MANY TIMES remains with the woman...
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That decision is made at the time of procreation.

who will be the one to support it
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Wow, you'd better tell a whole bunch of guys sending in their child support, that their payment isn't going to support their child.

share it with a male
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If there is joint custody, then that choice to 'share' the child is beyond her control.

and raise the quantity of children she wants.
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She can choose to have however many children she wishes, just make that choice before the orgasm.

Nothing more, nothing less. Her right to the privacy of her life to make these decisions.
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The male in that equation is at least half of the said equation...Without him, no child exists, so he should have a say.
 
j-mac said:
I am probably going to regret engaging your posting, but can you tell us just what you are talking about? Not every pregnancy is a risk to the mothers life...If you think it is, please feel free to provide us with that information....

Here is what I have....
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About 8 percent of all pregnancies carry the risk of death due to preeclampsia,eclampsia, HELLP syndrome and other variants of the syndrome. Each one of the 8 percent who gets those syndromes may end up dying. We never know when a pregnancy might take a turn and become life threatening to someone we love.

Another 1 to 2.5 percent of pregnancies are etopic pregnancies which are also life threatening.

So about 1 out 10 pregnancies can be life threatening just from 2 of the many types of life threatening complications.... eclampsia variants and etopic pregnancies.



Roughly 300 women in the USA do die every year from 'preeclampsia, eclampsia, or a related condition such as HELLP syndrome. About 75,000 more USA women who had severe complications from these syndromes are counted as “near misses”—.


My daughter had HELLP syndrome with her pregnancy and she was very close to death when they performed the emergency
C section.


She went to the ER a few weeks before her due date because she was getting a horrible pain in her back just below her ribs which was caused because she was bleeding into the liver.
Usually there is pain the upper right part of the abdomen but her pain was in the back because she had so much bleeding into the liver.


Her OB/GYN was shocked when her test results came back showing she had HELLP syndrome. She had just seen him a couple days before and everything with the pregnancy appeared fine then.
My daughter was one the up to 8 percent of women in the US who every year developes 'preeclampsia, eclampsia, or a related condition such as HELLP syndrome." Thankfully she was not one of the roughly 300 women who do die every year but she was one of the roughly 75,000 women every year who are counted as near misses.

Every year in the U.S., up to 8 percent, or 300,000, of pregnant or postpartum women develop preeclampsia, eclampsia, or a related condition such as HELLP syndrome.

Roughly 300 women die, and another 75,000 women experience “near misses”—severe complications and injury such as organ failure, massive blood loss, permanent disability, and premature birth or death of their babies.

Usually, the disease resolves with the birth of the baby and placenta. But, it can occur postpartum—indeed, most maternal deaths occur after delivery.
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Beyond Downton Abbey: Preeclampsia Maternal Deaths Continue Today - The Daily Beast

Now many woman want to gestate and give birth and do not mind taking the risk.

During my first pregnancy my kidneys were damaged and my life was at risk but I wanted to give birth so I continued my pregnancy knowing I might not live to see my little one or even know if I had a boy or girl.

But after my personal experiences I could never support a law or a country that would force a woman to risk her life and continue a pregnancy she did not want.

On the other side of the coin I would never support a law or a country that would force a woman to have an abortion.

I feel each pregnant woman should have a choice.
 
AGENT J said:
1.) yes it is and that impacts nothing i said LMAO
2.) please stop lying it only makes you look silly, can you point out where i denied the fact that a new set of DNA is created? thats right i never did LMAO

if you disagree by all means prove your lie and quote me I cant wait LOL

so now if you would actually like to get on topic and stop embarrassing yourself and understand what i factually and actually said id be glad too.

Also while you are at it, feel free to qoute me calling anything a fact that isnt and any opinion of mine i pushed as fact. Id LOVE to read it.

also i said its meaningless to the abortion debate because regardless of what anybody calls it or considers it the some foundation of the debate still exists.

the entity, baby, kid, life, ZEF, zygote, fetus, child, jane, john etc is inside the woman, is not viable until 21 weeks at best and its presences alone is a risk of life.

I eagerly await you post and let me know if you need educated on anything else i ACTUALLY said

:D
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I didn't say you denied it, I just thought it ironic that you won't even consider the fact in the debate. The DNA identified at conception is the same DNA identified at viability so why do you progressively remove abortion rights as gestation progresses?
 
Stopandthink said:
1.)I didn't say you denied it,
2.)I just thought it ironic that you won't even consider the fact in the debate.
3.)The DNA identified at conception is the same DNA identified at viability so why do you progressively remove abortion rights as gestation progresses?
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good way to back off and try to start over LMAO

1.)really, so which scientific fact were you implying i argued?
2.) again, whats ironic about it unless i was denying it a fact, explain why its ironic? I dont take it into consideration for the reason already mentioned "entity, baby, kid, life, ZEF, zygote, fetus, child, jane, john etc is inside the woman, is not viable until 21 weeks at best and its presences alone is a risk of life." so its unique DNA is meaningless
3.) you already answer your questions, The DNA is meaningless to the discussion and the other reason is VIABILITY

theres factually no way to grant equal rights to both the ZEF and the WOMAN, everything single time somebody is giving up rights.

So logically i can never come up with a reason to force a woman to give up here right, liberties and freedoms and also force her to risk her life against her will before the ZEF is even viable, that asinine.
 
minnie616 said:
About 8 percent of all pregnancies carry the risk of death due to preeclampsia,eclampsia, HELLP syndrome and other variants of the syndrome. Each one of the 8 percent who gets those syndromes may end up dying. We never know when a pregnancy might take a turn and become life threatening to someone we love.

Another 1 to 2.5 percent of pregnancies are etopic pregnancies which are also life threatening.

So about 1 out 10 pregnancies can be life threatening just from 2 of the many types of life threatening complications.... eclampsia variants and etopic pregnancies.



Roughly 300 women in the USA do die every year from 'preeclampsia, eclampsia, or a related condition such as HELLP syndrome. About 75,000 more USA women who had severe complications from these syndromes are counted as “near misses”—.


My daughter had HELLP syndrome with her pregnancy and she was very close to death when they performed the emergency
C section.


She went to the ER a few weeks before her due date because she was getting a horrible pain in her back just below her ribs which was caused because she was bleeding into the liver.
Usually there is pain the upper right part of the abdomen but her pain was in the back because she had so much bleeding into the liver.


Her OB/GYN was shocked when her test results came back showing she had HELLP syndrome. She had just seen him a couple days before and everything with the pregnancy appeared fine then.
My daughter was one the up to 8 percent of women in the US who every year developes 'preeclampsia, eclampsia, or a related condition such as HELLP syndrome." Thankfully she was not one of the roughly 300 women who do die every year but she was one of the roughly 75,000 women every year who are counted as near misses.



Beyond Downton Abbey: Preeclampsia Maternal Deaths Continue Today - The Daily Beast

Now many woman want to gestate and give birth and do not mind taking the risk.

During my first pregnancy my kidneys were damaged and my life was at risk but I wanted to give birth so I continued my pregnancy knowing I might not live to see my little one or even know if I had a boy or girl.

But after my personal experiences I could never support a law or a country that would force a woman to risk her life and continue a pregnancy she did not want.

On the other side of the coin I would never support a law or a country that would force a woman to have an abortion.

I feel each pregnant woman should have a choice.
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How is it "forcing a woman to give birth" if we are saying that the law should be left to the states?
 
Where all 50 states stand on abortion, in two charts
Posted by Sean Sullivan on March 7, 2013 at 2:21 pm

Arkansas lawmakers overrode a gubernatorial veto on Wednesday to approve the nation’s most restrictive abortion law, banning (with some exceptions) abortions after the twelfth week of pregnancy. Opponents have vowed to challenge the law, so its ultimate fate remains to be decided.

So how does Arkansas’s new law stack up against restrictions in the other 49 states? The following chart, from a report published earlier this month by the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health research organization that started as an arm of Planned Parenthood, provides some answers. (Click inside the chart for a larger version.) Forty states have prohibitions based on a specified stage of pregnancy, none of which are as restrictive as the law Arkansas just adopted:
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Where all 50 states stand on abortion, in two charts
 
minnie616 said:
No one is saying medically necessary procedures be outlawed?
Tell that to Savita Halappanavar's husband and family.
She died from septic poisioning and may have been saved if doctors had aborted the dying fetus right away but because of Ireland's abortion bann and the fact theycould still hear a fetal heartbeat even though they knew for a fact the fetus was dying and they would never be able to save it they refused to give her an abortion.


I don't know the precentages but I do know when I was about 20 weeks gestation and went into the ER with early labor hoping the doctors could stop my labor so I might be able to continue the pregnancy and hopefully give birth to a healthy baby..I was told my pregnancy test came back negitive but the doctor who was covering for my doctor did not want to come in that day so they shot me full of meds to stop the labor and he would be in the next day to preform the abortion.

I only needed a DC ( dusting and cleaning) the next day beause when I transfrered from the gurrney to bed the very malformed fetus was expelled and I accidently saw how deformed it was. My doctor told me that fetus never would been viaible even if I had carried it longer.
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Thank you for revealing that.

You know what? "Sanctity of life"? They don't think that applies to you. In fact, they don't care what you went thru at all. They each have their platitudes. That is all that matter to them - and they will endlessly say them in as many ways as possible over and over again. You don't matter. You're just for making babies who have a right to life. You don't. You're just the vessel.

Again, thank you. I've told a couple of personal situations. They don't care or just made snide remarks.
 
minnie616 said:
About 8 percent of all pregnancies carry the risk of death due to preeclampsia,eclampsia, HELLP syndrome and other variants of the syndrome. Each one of the 8 percent who gets those syndromes may end up dying. We never know when a pregnancy might take a turn and become life threatening to someone we love.

Another 1 to 2.5 percent of pregnancies are etopic pregnancies which are also life threatening.

So about 1 out 10 pregnancies can be life threatening just from 2 of the many types of life threatening complications.... eclampsia variants and etopic pregnancies.



Roughly 300 women in the USA do die every year from 'preeclampsia, eclampsia, or a related condition such as HELLP syndrome. About 75,000 more USA women who had severe complications from these syndromes are counted as “near misses”—.


My daughter had HELLP syndrome with her pregnancy and she was very close to death when they performed the emergency
C section.


She went to the ER a few weeks before her due date because she was getting a horrible pain in her back just below her ribs which was caused because she was bleeding into the liver.
Usually there is pain the upper right part of the abdomen but her pain was in the back because she had so much bleeding into the liver.


Her OB/GYN was shocked when her test results came back showing she had HELLP syndrome. She had just seen him a couple days before and everything with the pregnancy appeared fine then.
My daughter was one the up to 8 percent of women in the US who every year developes 'preeclampsia, eclampsia, or a related condition such as HELLP syndrome." Thankfully she was not one of the roughly 300 women who do die every year but she was one of the roughly 75,000 women every year who are counted as near misses.



Beyond Downton Abbey: Preeclampsia Maternal Deaths Continue Today - The Daily Beast

Now many woman want to gestate and give birth and do not mind taking the risk.

During my first pregnancy my kidneys were damaged and my life was at risk but I wanted to give birth so I continued my pregnancy knowing I might not live to see my little one or even know if I had a boy or girl.

But after my personal experiences I could never support a law or a country that would force a woman to risk her life and continue a pregnancy she did not want.

On the other side of the coin I would never support a law or a country that would force a woman to have an abortion.

I feel each pregnant woman should have a choice.
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500,000 women die each year from pregnancy and labor.
5,000,000 women are premanently crippled each year from pregnancy and labor.
They do not care.

But they do not believe women have a right to life. There is no santity of life for woman. Women are not human life. Women are just organic incubators for men's children. Nothing else. Rapists have rights in procreation. Women don't. That's God's law - or natural law - in their opinion.

All their platitudes originate from men. Men wrote the Bible. Men made the rules. The standards. Men overwhelming dominate every legislative body making these women-are-our-babymaking-slaves rules. Many women are raised with those values of men ground into them from their earliest childhood. Men write the rules. Rules that say they decide what risks women take. They decide that women must risk death for their children.

All their hollow lofty words of "santity of human life" and "life begins at conception" really go back to the premise that men rule women and once a man inpregnates a woman - regardless of her age and whether she consented or not - from that moment on he has total power over her - including life and death. It is evil men who made their slogans and platitudes. Rapist men. Men who treated women like slaves.
 
AGENT J said:
good way to back off and try to start over LMAO

1.)really, so which scientific fact were you implying i argued?
2.) again, whats ironic about it unless i was denying it a fact, explain why its ironic? I dont take it into consideration for the reason already mentioned "entity, baby, kid, life, ZEF, zygote, fetus, child, jane, john etc is inside the woman, is not viable until 21 weeks at best and its presences alone is a risk of life." so its unique DNA is meaningless
3.) you already answer your questions, The DNA is meaningless to the discussion and the other reason is VIABILITY

theres factually no way to grant equal rights to both the ZEF and the WOMAN, everything single time somebody is giving up rights.

So logically i can never come up with a reason to force a woman to give up here right, liberties and freedoms and also force her to risk her life against her will before the ZEF is even viable, that asinine.
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1. You didn't argue it, I think you misunderstood me
2. It's ironic because you don't care what it is or what it's called until it is viable, when scientific fact shows you it is the same DNA since conception.
3. Again, why do you grant the fetus more rights around viability? Wouldn't a third term pregnancy pose more threat to mom's life?
 
Stopandthink said:
1. You didn't argue it, I think you misunderstood me
2. It's ironic because you don't care what it is or what it's called until it is viable, when scientific fact shows you it is the same DNA since conception.
3. Again, why do you grant the fetus more rights around viability? Wouldn't a third term pregnancy pose more threat to mom's life?
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1.) nope you either misspoke or are now back pedaling, pick one because im going by your words
Stopandthink said:
I can see that you really aren't debating scientific fact at all
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so again i ask, what scientific fact was i debating? hence arguing

2.) false again, "I" care the whole time LMAO but for the abortion debate it doesnt matter
also you keep repeating that scientific fact shows me its the same DNA like it was denied or something. It simply doesnt matter to the abortion debate, what dont you get

3.) Again i answered you already. I dont grant it anything i said id be ok if it was given more rights at viability because now we are talking about two living things and BOTH are viable.
yes a third term COULD but imo i think thats more than enough time to make a decision if you want to try to give birth or abort though, also the 21 week limit would be a SOFT limit if it was up to me. Case by case since it is still in the mother and still a threat.

so im still waiting for you to prove out any opinion i pushed as fact ot anything i called a fact that isnt? or are you gonna keep dodging this

so now this is your goal

point out where i pushed opinion ad fact or called something a fact that wasnt

actually focus on your original lie of a post

and just spit out what you would really like to ask me, because it glaringly obvious you have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to my stance, what i posted and facts.

SO lets educated you further and get you back on track
 
Republicans now do have a murderous war on women in a literal sense.
 
Welliam Wittier said:
I have the same question for Joko about his comments and republicans.
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Well ask him.
Don't ask me...I am not a baby killer and I have not been a republican in the last few years.
 
minnie616 said:
Well ask him.
Don't ask me...I am not a baby killer and I have not been a republican in the last few years.
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I'm not a baby killer either - and there are a bunch of messages all over the forum calling me a rightwing Tea Partier too. Actually I'm now a yellow dog feminist Democrat - specifically because of this issue of Republicans passing laws to force little girls to have their rapists babies and insuring all would-be rapists they'll do that for them.

I didn't use the word "all."
 
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