• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

US court declares Sea Shepherd pirates

Redress

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
112,957
Reaction score
60,487
Location
Sarasota Fla
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
In one of those stories only I might be interested in: US court declares Sea Shepherd pirates - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

An appeals court in the United States has labelled the anti-whaling group Sea Shepherd as pirates, clearing the way for Japanese whalers to pursue legal action against it.
In making his ruling, chief judge Alex Kozinski said people no longer needed a peg leg or an eye patch to be classified as pirates.
"When you ram ships, hurl glass containers of acid, drag metal-reinforced ropes in the water to damage propellers and rudders, launch smoke bombs and flares with hooks; and point high-powered lasers at other ships, you are, without a doubt, a pirate," he said.
This was true "no matter how high-minded you believe your purpose to be," the judge added, in a ruling that dubbed Sea Shepherd founder Paul Watson "eccentric."
Click to expand...

What I think is important is the idea that even if you are trying to aide a good cause, but do it illegally, you are still a criminal. Here is the Sea Shepard in action:

sea-shepherd-officially-pirates-003.jpg

Trying to save whales by intentionally putting other humans at risk is the wrong way to do things...
 
I doubt sea Shepard is going to be discouraged by this ruling, as long as it gets attention for its cause. Then again it is not like the Japanese are telling the whole story either.
 
Those anti-whaling vessels are pretty darn luck so far they have not run up against a ship that will attack them. I am all for protecting the whales, but I wouldn't think twice if the US Navy or someone else sent these liberal attack ships and their crews to the bottom of the ocean.
 
i'm not big on radical environmentalism, but i'm also very turned off by calling commercial whaling "research."
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I doubt sea Shepard is going to be discouraged by this ruling, as long as it gets attention for its cause. Then again it is not like the Japanese are telling the whole story either.
Click to expand...

What it does it open up the possibility to sue Sea Sheppard. That will discourage them.
 
Paul Watson, a person who dirties the reputation of Canadians, a man who swore in court to honor the conditions of his bail and then fled into hiding yet pathetically continues to protest his innocence, gets no sympathy or benefit from this Canadian, regardless of what I may think about the Japanese and their fishing practices.
 
Long overdue for those wankers. This means they may have their flag withdrawn and they'll be held if they ever touch an American port. Also means the Japanese can fire on them when they try their BS.
 
Fisher said:
Those anti-whaling vessels are pretty darn luck so far they have not run up against a ship that will attack them. I am all for protecting the whales, but I wouldn't think twice if the US Navy or someone else sent these liberal attack ships and their crews to the bottom of the ocean.
Click to expand...

Please fisher, this is not a politicly biased topic.
 
Redress said:
In one of those stories only I might be interested in: US court declares Sea Shepherd pirates - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)



What I think is important is the idea that even if you are trying to aide a good cause, but do it illegally, you are still a criminal. Here is the Sea Shepard in action:

View attachment 67143510

Trying to save whales by intentionally putting other humans at risk is the wrong way to do things...
Click to expand...

Perhaps in this case, although from a philosophical point of view, not quite. Laws themselves are just words on paper. Their true strength is embodied in the will of the people who comply with them. In some cases, laws that pervert or undermine those who must live under them can be resisted 'illegally', such as smuggling Jews out of countries under the lawful rule of the Nazis.

Back to this case: not quite sure I agree with the pirate designation, although I'm equally unsure what the category implies.
 
Helix said:
i'm not big on radical environmentalism, but i'm also very turned off by calling commercial whaling "research."
Click to expand...

The "research" is whaling. It is clear cut, no questions. However, there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Attacking people to protect whales is the wrong way.
 
I'm surprised the larger whalers don't fight back. There are private military companies dedicated to protecting ships from pirates.

IMO any publicity they get from this is only going to hurt their image and possibly even their cause in the eyes of all but a few radical environmentalists.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Please fisher, this is not a politicly biased topic.
Click to expand...

Take out the word liberal and my position is not changed. Those ships should be sunk and the surviving crew members should be arrested and sent to prison. It is a politically biased topic.
 
Redress said:
The "research" is whaling. It is clear cut, no questions. However, there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Attacking people to protect whales is the wrong way.
Click to expand...

i guess i don't see why they can't just eat another sea animal that isn't in population crisis.
 
Redress said:
The "research" is whaling. It is clear cut, no questions. However, there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Attacking people to protect whales is the wrong way.
Click to expand...

Not sure if its that one-dimensional. Sometimes "right" is split up among opposing parties. The only provision I would make is that people who choose to enforce their view point "by the sword" is to (1) be prepared to face the consequences of that life style and (2) exhaust all alternative legal options first.
 
Pilot said:
I'm surprised the larger whalers don't fight back. There are private military companies dedicated to protecting ships from pirates.

IMO any publicity they get from this is only going to hurt their image and possibly even their cause in the eyes of all but a few radical environmentalists.
Click to expand...

There may be a financial implication as well. I don't know the answer to this, but being declared "pirates" seems to me the equivalent of being declared a terrorist organization. Since Americans, by law, are prohibited from providing material support to a terrorist group, could this also mean that any American donating to this organization could be prosecuted and any bank accepting such donations would also be liable?
 
Redress said:
In one of those stories only I might be interested in: US court declares Sea Shepherd pirates - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)



What I think is important is the idea that even if you are trying to aide a good cause, but do it illegally, you are still a criminal. Here is the Sea Shepard in action:

View attachment 67143510

Trying to save whales by intentionally putting other humans at risk is the wrong way to do things...
Click to expand...

I'm surprised they haven't been classified as terrorists, but I suppose a pirate is just a terrorist by sea. It shouldn't be too hard to track them. Use a whaler as bait, and when the Shepherd comes, sink it and take the survivors into custody.
 
Redress said:
In one of those stories only I might be interested in: www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-27/us-court-declares-sea-shepherd-pirates/4543370]US court declares Sea Shepherd pirates - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)[/url]



What I think is important is the idea that even if you are trying to aide a good cause, but do it illegally, you are still a criminal. Here is the Sea Shepard in action:

View attachment 67143510

Trying to save whales by intentionally putting other humans at risk is the wrong way to do things...
Click to expand...

You and I whole heartedly agree Redress.

I watched whale wars a couple of times and thought to my self " criminals".

Although I hate whaling it doesn't excuse their actions which are basically terroristic.
 
Helix said:
i guess i don't see why they can't just eat
another sea animal that isn't in population crisis.
Click to expand...

I believe they go after " Minke's"...I could be wrong.

But they're not endangered or threatened.

Actually because of education and groups who expose the trade of whaling allot of their species are coming back.

I not saying I condone it, but I think the whales they hunt are not in danger.
 
CanadaJohn said:
There may be a financial implication as well. I don't know the answer to this, but being declared "pirates" seems to me the equivalent of being declared a terrorist organization. Since Americans, by law, are prohibited from providing material support to a terrorist group, could this also mean that any American donating to this organization could be prosecuted and any bank accepting such donations would also be liable?
Click to expand...

That seems likely, and as an added bonus donors would be eligible for the exclusive no fly list. Maybe their pirate friends could provide transportation for longer trips.
 
Helix said:
i guess i don't see why they can't just eat another sea animal that isn't in population crisis.
Click to expand...

Be aware that I am not condoning whaling. In point of fact, I consider whaling by the Japanese and others to be inexcusable. It is not needed. However, that does not excuse the tactics that Sea Sheppard employs.

Also note that the purpose of this is not to allow whaling ships to sink Sea Sheppard ships, but to open them up to lawsuits. With this ruling, the Japanese "research" company can now sue Sea Sheppard(and almost certainly win) and end their activities that way.
 
CanadaJohn said:
There may be a financial implication as well. I don't know the answer to this, but being declared "pirates" seems to me the equivalent of being declared a terrorist organization. Since Americans, by law, are prohibited from providing material support to a terrorist group, could this also mean that any American donating to this organization could be prosecuted and any bank accepting such donations would also be liable?
Click to expand...

That's actually a perplexing question, since a prosecutor would have to decide if it's worth the trouble to jail some hippies who donated a couple bucks to these extremists. It would have to be a very substantial amount of money to get DHS to pursue any legal action. All in all, I think this is just a way to legitimize more severe measures in stopping the Sea Shepherd.
 
Redress said:
Be aware that I am not condoning whaling. In point of fact, I consider whaling by the Japanese and others to be inexcusable. It is not needed. However, that does not excuse the tactics that Sea Sheppard employs.

Also note that the purpose of this is not to allow whaling ships to sink Sea Sheppard ships, but to open them up to lawsuits. With this ruling, the Japanese "research" company can now sue Sea Sheppard(and almost certainly win) and end their activities that way.
Click to expand...

it's a pity that they both can't lose.
 
They are pirates and terrorists - by any reasonable definition. That's what they actually did. I don't give a spotted owl's hoot about their noble motivations.

"L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs"
 
Cyrylek said:
They are pirates and terrorists - by any reasonable definition. That's what they actually did. I don't give a spotted owl's hoot about their noble motivations.

"L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs"
Click to expand...

If sea Shepard only stuck to reporting the actions of the whaling fleet there would not be much of a problem. Unfortunatly their confrontations only lead to aggressive reactions from the Japanese, which only leads to escalates the conflict. It truly is a whale war.
 
Redress said:
What it does it open up the possibility to sue Sea Sheppard. That will discourage them.
Click to expand...

Doesn't it open up the possibility of sinking them? Like, isn't it legal to shoot t pirate ships who attack you?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom