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After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slavery

Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

calamity said:
Being stuck in the paradigm where those saying something you disagree with politically are "Liberals" is sort of immature. If I wanted an opinion on the level of a high school kid, I'd ask one.
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I'll be looking forward to the debate just as soon as you graduate.
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

Grant said:
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Blue states tend to believe that Blacks are inferior, which is why they support more welfare, and programs like affirmative action. Republicans tend to believe that Black people are equal in intellect and ability and can do without such racist programs.
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Well welfare is based on income not race.

Affirmative action is based on race but most institutions (colleges) also give points for individuals from different backgrounds as well. For the most part most businesses and universities agree with the idea of affirmative action and creating diversity in the workplace.

Everything is about demographics, with one generation setting the scene for the next, hoping to create a better world for their children.

Now we have created these social programs but who will pay for the aging boomers when 55 million Americans lives have been destroyed since R vs W? These were all potential taxpayers. Do you think the surviving children who inherit all this debt will look at this present generation with any gratitude? Whatever for? We can certainly thank past generations for their work but there is little about this one that future generations can be grateful for.
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Kind of off topic. I'm curious though...when was the last generation that didn't pass a deficit on to the future generation?
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

Grant said:
Let's forget about the maps.

Yes, of course the Democrats of 1860 were racist and it is my contention that they are racist now, albeit with more subtlety.
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And that the population of racists from the South all moved North where they continued to vote for racists. We've seen that much of a population shift over the last even 50 years that all the racists that voted Democrat moved North. Even look at 1964:

1964.gif


The deep south, Mississippi, Alabama - red then, red now. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but Mississippi and Alabama were not the most racially progressive states of the time. Why didn't any of the racist Democrats vote there?
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

Grant said:
I'll be looking forward to the debate just as soon as you graduate.
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Let's try this again. Are you arguing that Strom Thurmond left the Democrats because they were racist and joined the Republicans because they were not?

Surely not.
Thurmond was increasingly at odds with the national Democratic Party, a majority of whose leaders were supporting the civil rights movement led by African Americans in the South seeking enforcement of their right as citizens to vote and an end to racial segregation. He opposed the Civil Rights Bill of 1964, which was passed. On September 16, 1964, he switched his party affiliation to the Republican Party. He said, the Democratic Party has:
"forsaken the people to become the party of minority groups, power-hungry union leaders, political bosses, and businessmen looking for government contracts and favors.... invaded the private lives of people by using the powers of government for coercion and intimidation of individuals.... encouraged lawlessness, civil unrest and mob actions.... [and] nominated for vice president a key leader of the Americans for Democratic Action, the most influential Socialist group in our Nation." He was one of the first prominent Democrats to switch parties.

He played an important role in South Carolina's support among white voters for the Republican presidential candidates Barry Goldwater in 1964 and Richard Nixon in 1968. South Carolina and other states of the Deep South had supported the Democrats in every national election from the end of Reconstruction, when white Democrats re-established political control in the South, to 1960. However, discontent with the Democrats' increasing support for civil rights resulted in John F. Kennedy's barely winning the state in 1960.

After Kennedy's assassination in 1963, President Lyndon Johnson's strong support for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 angered white segregationists even more. These laws ended segregation and committed the federal government to enforce voting rights of citizens by the supervision of elections in states in which the pattern of voting showed that blacks had been disfranchised. Goldwater won South Carolina by a large margin in 1964.
Strom Thurmond - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Does Wiki have a liberal bias?
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

iliveonramen said:
Well welfare is based on income not race.
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Do you feel that these welfare programs have effected every group in the United States equally?

The Moynihan Report was prescient, but is still being ignored.The Negro Family: The Case For National Action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Black Family: 40 Years of Lies by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Summer 2005

Affirmative action is based on race but most institutions (colleges) also give points for individuals from different backgrounds as well. For the most part most businesses and universities agree with the idea of affirmative action and creating diversity in the workplace.
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It perpetuates the myth that Black people are inferior. It is evil, it is paternalistic, and I'm not even certain that it is well intentioned. Would you want your race to be treated that way, as though you were still a backward child?

Kind of off topic. I'm curious though...when was the last generation that didn't pass a deficit on to the future generation?
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You can look it up, but what's killing the goose is the debt and the social programs that the next generation will inherit. Too many have become dependent on government, without reason, and that has never happened before. Nor has this huge debt ever happened before. Nor have there ever been as many abortions as before. While you might think abortions are off topic, they really are not. Instead of having children Americans are importing other people in the hope that they will pay for the boomers pensions and health care.. All of this is very unrealistic and is all tied together. Demographics never lie.
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

calamity said:
Let's try this again. Are you arguing that Strom Thurmond left the Democrats because they were racist and joined the Republicans because they were not?

Surely not.

Does Wiki have a liberal bias?
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It doesn't mention race in your excerpt.

He said, the Democratic Party has:"forsaken the people to become the party of minority groups, power-hungry union leaders, political bosses, and businessmen looking for government contracts and favors.... invaded the private lives of people by using the powers of government for coercion and intimidation of individuals.... encouraged lawlessness, civil unrest and mob actions.... [and] nominated for vice president a key leader of the Americans for Democratic Action, the most influential Socialist group in our Nation." He was one of the first prominent Democrats to switch parties.
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Makes sense to me.

Did you know that a higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act?
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

Grant said:
1. It doesn't mention race in your excerpt.



2. Makes sense to me.

3. Did you know that a higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act?
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1. Really?
Thurmond was increasingly at odds with the national Democratic Party, a majority of whose leaders were supporting the civil rights movement led by African Americans in the South seeking enforcement of their right as citizens to vote and an end to racial segregation. He opposed the Civil Rights Bill of 1964, which was passed. On September 16, 1964, he switched his party affiliation to the Republican Party. He said, the Democratic Party has:
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2. Why am I not surprised?
He said, the Democratic Party has:"forsaken the people to become the party of minority groups..."
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3. Total facepalm
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

calamity said:
1. Really?


2. Why am I not surprised?


3. Total facepalm
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Here's the deal. this is not all about Strom Thurmond any more than it is about Robert Byrd, George Wallace or Bull Conner. If we are going to single out individuals from each party as being representative of that party then the debate will just evolve into nothingness.

What can be debated however is the general philosophy of each party over the generations. In that sense I feel the Republicans come out far ahead.

A similar story is told in the Senate. On the critical vote to end the filibuster by Southern Democrats, 71 senators voted to invoke cloture. With 67 votes needed, 44 Democrats and 27 Republicans joined together to bring the bill to a final vote. Of those voting “nay,” 80 percent were Democrats, including Robert C. Byrd and former Vice President Al Gore’s father, who was then a senator from Tennessee. Again, it is clear that the civil rights bill would have failed without Republican votes. Close observers of the Senate deliberations recognized that the Republican leader, Senator Everett McKinley Dirksen of Illinois, had done yeoman work in responding to the objections of individual Republicans and holding almost all of them together in support of the bill. “More than any other single individual,” the New York Times acknowledged, “he was responsible for getting the civil rights bill through the Senate.”
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Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

Grant said:
Here's the deal. this is not all about Strom Thurmond any more than it is about Robert Byrd, George Wallace or Bull Conner. If we are going to single out individuals from each party as being representative of that party then the debate will just evolve into nothingness.

What can be debated however is the general philosophy of each party over the generations. In that sense I feel the Republicans come out far ahead.
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I should have included the link to include a broader overview.Who Opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964? | Stan Collender's Capital Gains and Games
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

calamity said:
Being stuck in the paradigm where those saying something you disagree with politically are "Liberals" is sort of immature. If I wanted an opinion on the level of a high school kid, I'd ask one.
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A Liberal said in post #2, on this thread, that Louisiana changed a constitutional ban on interracial marriage just a few years ago. That's erroneous. No one seemed at all bothered by it. Did it bother you that an outrageously erroneous statement such as that was posted?
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

calamity said:
Let's try this again. Are you arguing that Strom Thurmond left the Democrats because they were racist and joined the Republicans because they were not?

Surely not.

Does Wiki have a liberal bias?
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Are you saying that Strom Thurman changed parties for purely racist reasons?
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

calamity said:
Are you being obtuse or are you just extremely ignorant? Southern politics
radically changed in the 1960's after LBJ pushed through the Civil Rights Act. Anyone who studied any amount of US History knows this.

You're basically arguing that the Democratic party never changed which is either an intentional lie or a stunningly ill-informed statement. Either way, it's false.
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It changed and for the worse ( and thats saying something ) as Democrats realized they could buy votes and force people into their party by perpetuating policies that enable dependence.

And its still going on strong. Do you want me to post the unemployment rates and percentage of blacks on Govt assistance ......currently ?

Or do you want to ?

Welfare reform is typically a discussion that involves demagogy and accusations of cruelty from the left and reasoned statements from those on the right.

Get over it, your party institutionalized slavery and called it "assistance" and sympathy.
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

The Democrats of the 70's moved too far to the Left. True.
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

No. I'm saying the Southern Democrats and those who once voted for them became Republicans for reasons of race.
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

Didn't read it.
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

calamity said:
No. I'm saying the Southern Democrats and those who once voted for them became Republicans for reasons of race.
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Maybe because there were too many racists in the Democrat party? Afterall, it was the Democrats who killed civil rights legislation prior to 1964--Al Gore, Lyndon Johnson--and a higher percentage of Democrats voted against the CRB of 1964. Why would racist Democrats change to the party that voted 92% yay for the CRB of 1964?
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

apdst said:
Maybe because there were too many racists in the Democrat party? Afterall, it was the Democrats who killed civil rights legislation prior to 1964--Al Gore, Lyndon Johnson--and a higher percentage of Democrats voted against the CRB of 1964. Why would racist Democrats change to the party that voted 92% yay for the CRB of 1964?
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Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech! Thud!

That's the sound of a Republican hitting the brick wall of thinking.
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

I'm not shocked it is Mississippi,those kind's of thing move at snails speed there. ijs:peace
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

Grant said:
Here's the deal. this is not all about Strom Thurmond any more than it is about Robert Byrd, George Wallace or Bull Conner. If we are going to single out individuals from each party as being representative of that party then the debate will just evolve into nothingness.

What can be debated however is the general philosophy of each party over the generations. In that sense I feel the Republicans come out far ahead.
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Southern Democrats left the party when the party leadership pushed through Civil Rights. Simple as that, though some would interpret the spilt as more about economics than race.
The bill divided and engendered a long-term change in the demographics of both parties. President Johnson realized that supporting this bill would risk losing the South's overwhelming support of the Democratic Party. Both Attorney General Robert Kennedy and Vice President Johnson had pushed for the introduction of the civil rights legislation. Johnson told Kennedy aide Ted Sorensen that "I know the risks are great and we might lose the South, but those sorts of states may be lost anyway."[29] Senator Richard Russell, Jr. warned President Johnson that his strong support for the civil rights bill "will not only cost you the South, it will cost you the election."[30] Johnson, however, went on to win the 1964 election by one of the biggest landslides in American history. The South, which had started to vote increasingly Republican beginning in the 1930s, continued that trend, becoming the stronghold of the Republican party by the 1990s.[31] Political scientists Richard Johnston and Byron Schafer have argued that this development was based more on economics than on race.
Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Be all that as it may, fact remains, the D's of the 60's are not the same as the D's post the Civil Rights era.
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

Danbury said:
Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech! Thud!

That's the sound of a Republican hitting the brick wall of thinking.
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What do you mean?
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

apdst said:
What do you mean?
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Those Dems joined the GOP, party of the Southern Strategy.
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

calamity said:
Southern Democrats left the party when the party leadership pushed through Civil Rights. Simple as that, though some would interpret the spilt as more about economics than race.

Be all that as it may, fact remains, the D's of the 60's are not the same as the D's post the Civil Rights era.
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Why did they join the Republicans, when so many more Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Bill?
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

Danbury said:
Those Dems joined the GOP, party of the Southern Strategy.
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92% of the members of the party of the "Southern Strategy" voted yay for the Civil Rights Bill. Why would racists from the Democrat Party join the Republican party, for racst reasons. See how idiotic that notion is?
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

Danbury said:
Those Dems joined the GOP, party of the Southern Strategy.
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Your proud of your partkes institutionalized dependence and the damage its done to the black family ?
 
Re: After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slaver

Fenton said:
Your proud of your partkes institutionalized dependence and the damage its done to the black family ?
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That's the reason LBJ pushed the CRB...it was the best way to keep blacks under control.
 
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