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SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

It's very relative...

How so? As you proclaimed 'If companies could use slaves for work they would' but see...they CAN'T thus it is not relative AT ALL! all the rest is jibber jabber.
 
No, because these minimum wage rates were more progressively adjusted in the 90's in an effort to maintain parity with inflation (of course monitary policy limiting inflation did have an effect also). This was done because as you accurately stated that prior to they were not...but now they are right in line if not a little ahead...check it out.

No...they were not.

Federal Minimum Wage Rates, 1955

This shows the rates adjusted for inflation from the same source you provided. You are wrong.
 
yes, do that and then those who are without the means to pay for the essential services they require - thru no fault of their own - but which care is now covered by welfare, will be left to die
another example of the vaunted compassionate conservatism

Really? How do you explain 11 to 15 million "undocumented" workers? Work is not an option, it is a requirement. There is no rational reason for 15% of the non-disabled US population to not work.
 
Re: SOTU Address:

Explain this: Norway and Denmark retained the pole positions they held last year in the overall prosperity measure, while Sweden leapfrogged Australia and New Zealand into third. Canada, Finland, the Netherlands, Switzerland and Ireland rounded out the top ten.
In its sub-indexes, Legatum named Switzerland the strongest economy and home to the best system of governance. Denmark is the most entrepreneurial and New Zealand has the best education, while health is best in Luxembourg and Iceland is the safest. Canadians enjoy the most personal freedom and Norwegians have the greatest social capital. Every one of them is a liberal government.

Rubbish. Every one of them is hardly "liberal" as we know it. What all have are largely homogenous populations, where folks are not encouraged to suckle the government teat as the low-information liberals are here in the US. For instance, they do not have major sub-cultures with illegitimate birth rates of 70 and 50%. While they may be more socialist than us, they have far less dead-weight promulgated by their "liberal" governments.
 
yes, do that and then those who are without the means to pay for the essential services they require - thru no fault of their own - but which care is now covered by welfare, will be left to die
another example of the vaunted compassionate conservatism

I was thinking that compassionate conservatism’s position would be something along the lines of ‘God would provide and care for those who need’…but I suppose the anthesis of this would be Darwinism where survival would be of the fittest ergo some would be ‘left to die’…remind me again which side of the isle believes in such…

there u go
 
How so? As you proclaimed 'If companies could use slaves for work they would' but see...they CAN'T thus it is not relative AT ALL! all the rest is jibber jabber.

I said exactly why. You cut it out of the quote. The point is, companies will go for as little wages as possible no matter the cost to society or the people they hurt. We are asking for a basic living wage that adjusts to inflation. We are not asking to live in luxury or to take a living from anyone else. That is the difference. Humanity vs profit.
 
Re: SOTU Address:

In America, if there's TRULY something you want to do, with hard work and sacrifice, you can usually find a way to go do it....

This is the "everyone can be an exception" fallacy.
 
Re: SOTU Address:

Is there some reason that you continue to spout the Obama talking points? let me know when we have a deficit reduction, economic growth of over 4%, less than 22 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers, a reduction of people on food stamps and other taxpayer assistance? Learn how our economy works and the four components. Then go to OBama and help him understand it.

I'm citing a fact, and you keep calling it a talkng point? Yeah right, facts are the talking points that conservatives hate. I get it. We have a deficit reduction taking place right now. Where have you been? We learned about a month ago that the U.S. budget deficit for the most recent fiscal year fell to $1.089 trillion, $200 billion smaller than it was last year, and nearly $300 billion smaller than when President Obama took office.

For the right, the complaints stayed the same -- the deficit that exploded under Bush/Cheney was still too high. But regardless of ideology, the fact remains that there's been an enormous drop in the size of the deficit in the first half of the Obama era.
 
I said exactly why. You cut it out of the quote. The point is, companies will go for as little wages as possible no matter the cost to society or the people they hurt. We are asking for a basic living wage that adjusts to inflation. We are not asking to live in luxury or to take a living from anyone else. That is the difference. Humanity vs profit.

Nonsense. You advocate "free-stuff". Conservatism advocates accountability.
 
How so? As you proclaimed 'If companies could use slaves for work they would' but see...they CAN'T thus it is not relative AT ALL! all the rest is jibber jabber.
I have heard the phrase "liberish" used in this sense. I think it comes from the notion that if you say a lot of stuff real fast and throw in some catchy phrases, people will miss the fact that the lot of stuff you just said is complete BS. Weird, I know, but we do have the latest election results to testify to its effectiveness on a significant portion of the American public. Thank the schools, who also apparently teach only Keynesian economics, and even that not very well.
 
Re: SOTU Address:

I'm citing a fact, and you keep calling it a talkng point? Yeah right, facts are the talking points that conservatives hate. I get it. We have a deficit reduction taking place right now. Where have you been? We learned about a month ago that the U.S. budget deficit for the most recent fiscal year fell to $1.089 trillion, $200 billion smaller than it was last year, and nearly $300 billion smaller than when President Obama took office.

For the right, the complaints stayed the same -- the deficit that exploded under Bush/Cheney was still too high. But regardless of ideology, the fact remains that there's been an enormous drop in the size of the deficit in the first half of the Obama era.

What I bolded is a bald-faced lie.
 
Yes, that is exactly the problem. But the conservative problem is that you believe the bad part of that is the government and not the horrible private wages. Minimum wage hikes throughout history have not caused any significant increase in unemployment. Prices will rise no doubt, but the wage increase will more than compensate for those adjusted prices.

And the US needs "guest workers" because? If you raise the minumum wage will that create (or save) any jobs? McJobs are NEVER going to support "families" at the level that liberals wish them to. If they did then who would seek to gain more work skills and experience? Those tha now make minimum wage X 1.5 or minimum wage + $4/hour will expect to still make that realtive to a McJob, so the minumum dream wage "increase" will simply disappear from inflation. Minimum rents will rise, as will food costs and all COLA adjustments for retirement pay and SS benefits. You cannot magically dictate "fairness" without thinking it through.
 
I have heard the phrase "liberish" used in this sense. I think it comes from the notion that if you say a lot of stuff real fast and throw in some catchy phrases, people will miss the fact that the lot of stuff you just said is complete BS. Weird, I know, but we do have the latest election results to testify to its effectiveness on a significant portion of the American public. Thank the schools, who also apparently teach only Keynesian economics, and even that not very well.

Lol, that's funny considering that's exactly what Romney tried doing in the debate but we're getting off topic here.

I explained what I meant so maybe you should respond to that instead of spouting off nonsense about something that was answered.

Austrian economics is a joke in a fantasy world.
 
I said exactly why. You cut it out of the quote. The point is, companies will go for as little wages as possible no matter the cost to society or the people they hurt. We are asking for a basic living wage that adjusts to inflation. We are not asking to live in luxury or to take a living from anyone else. That is the difference. Humanity vs profit.

Nonsense.

If I pay the lowest wage, I will get the lowest quality of worker.

And just about the time I finish my investment in training him, he's likely to go to work for someone else.

If I pay a higher wage, I can get a better quality worker, and I'm not constantly training people because of turnover.

And if I want to be competitive in the marketplace, I'll offer benefits, to get the BEST workers, so that I can out- think and out- work my competitors.
 
No...they were not.

Federal Minimum Wage Rates, 1955

This shows the rates adjusted for inflation from the same source you provided. You are wrong.

Yes, rates adjusted to constant 1996 dollars...NEWSFLASH...this is 2012! Note how the adjusted rate in 1996 is $4.75, what is the min. wage today?...$7.25 which equates to $4.97 (per your source) which is ABOVE $4.75...YOU ARE WRONG...see?
 
Even allowing more drilling would help.

We're already doing that. Global drilling for oil and gas is dominated by North America, in particular the USA. In January 1995 there was 737 oil and gas rigs drilling in the USA, 42% of the world total. By October 2011 this figure had grown to 2010 rigs, 55% of the world total. Proportionally the USA has increased it's drilling effort compared to the rest of the world and currently benefits from lower oil prices, significantly lower natural gas prices and higher economic growth than many OECD peers.
Oil Production Remains the Same, but Rig Counts Continue to Grow
 
Re: SOTU Address:

Because obviously all the oil we use comes from there.


Your claim was that oil came from oil companies.

Mine is that oil comes from nations like Venezuela, Canada, Norway, Saudi Arabia, etc., as well as the United States.........

THAT'S who gets paid for the oil.
 
We're already doing that. Global drilling for oil and gas is dominated by North America, in particular the USA. In January 1995 there was 737 oil and gas rigs drilling in the USA, 42% of the world total. By October 2011 this figure had grown to 2010 rigs, 55% of the world total. Proportionally the USA has increased it's drilling effort compared to the rest of the world and currently benefits from lower oil prices, significantly lower natural gas prices and higher economic growth than many OECD peers.
Oil Production Remains the Same, but Rig Counts Continue to Grow

Thank you, G. W. Bush......

It takes about 3 years from the time you apply for a drilling permit until you first drill...

I guess Obama can blame Bush for his success there as well.
 
Lol, that's funny considering that's exactly what Romney tried doing in the debate but we're getting off topic here.

I explained what I meant so maybe you should respond to that instead of spouting off nonsense about something that was answered.

Austrian economics is a joke in a fantasy world.
You explained with nonsense. You have no right to a basic living wage. Such things are earned. My comments weren't directed to you anyway. I quit the education business a long time ago.
 
It doesn't increase consumer spending. It creates more unemployment. The fact of the matter is, businesses are reducing workers to 29 hours a week because of Obamacare regulations. Raising the minimum wage will only hurt these workers more, while at the same time it will crowd out young unskilled workers and minorities out of the Labor Market. You are not calculating the opportunity costs associated with a minimum wage increase. For every household that sees a 2800 increase, another has lost their income as businesses adjust to increased costs. They also charge more for their Goods and Services. It hurts the economy. It doesn't help it.

Consumer spending is on the decline as well - Retail sales growth slows as higher taxes kick in | Reuters



The multiplier effect (the amount of GDP that is increased by one dollar of spending) for low-income earners is according to a Dartmouth study titled “real time estimates of the effect of the American recovery and reinvestment act “the multiplier effect is between 1.96 to 2.31.which is pretty good, considering that infrastructure spending,which most consider the gold standard for stimulus spending is 1.85.And anyone making $9.00 bucks (let alone the current rate) an hour would/ will,imo qualify as low-income workers.


By the way please explain to me how increasing the economy, by putting more money into the peoples pocket that have lost ground for the last thirty years”will crowd out young unskilled workers and minorities out of the Labor Market “.Who makes up the majority of those that will get their wages kicked up.:peace
 
And the US needs "guest workers" because? If you raise the minumum wage will that create (or save) any jobs? McJobs are NEVER going to support "families" at the level that liberals wish them to. If they did then who would seek to gain more work skills and experience? Those tha now make minimum wage X 1.5 or minimum wage + $4/hour will expect to still make that realtive to a McJob, so the minumum dream wage "increase" will simply disappear from inflation. Minimum rents will rise, as will food costs and all COLA adjustments for retirement pay and SS benefits. You cannot magically dictate "fairness" without thinking it through.


I don't know what guest workers have to do with this.

Raising the minimum wage is more likely to create jobs because it will put money into the hands of people that can not afford to spend who will now be able to. You will have people that could not afford to buy a house or rent who will now be able to. Your argument against raising it is that it will never get to the levels others wish so you'd simply rather wages continue to slide downwards(through inflation) to horrible levels just because it won't be "enough".

Allowing people to have a basic living at minimum wage does NOT stop people from gaining more skills/experience. Not everyone on minimum wage is some lazy scumbag/dropout that you conservative/libertarians seem to think. People work those jobs for many reasons.

If people expect their job to pay relative to minimum wage then that shows how disgusting their true nature is. They're more worried about someone "beneath" them earning closer to what they make. Sickening. I've made my way to an above minimum wage job. It's still not where I want to be but it's a move up. I don't care if those past horrible jobs I had now pay what I'm making now or more so because I'd be happy that there are more people that are able to afford a basic living rather than having to scrape by or work 7 days a week to afford what they can. Your wage does not make your more or less of a person than others. That's one of the real problems in this country. Everyone values each other by what they have rather than who they are.

If you adjust wages for inflation, all those cost increases soon become meaningless.
 
You explained with nonsense. You have no right to a basic living wage. Such things are earned. My comments weren't directed to you anyway. I quit the education business a long time ago.

More sickening comments from conservatives. EVERYONE that works full time hours should have a basic living wage. It's called being human and having empathy.

I can't believe how little people here care about others. It's all everyone for themselves. So disgusting. It makes me literally sick to my stomach that people actually think this way.
 
Re: SOTU Address:

What I bolded is a bald-faced lie.

With the end of fiscal year 2012, the Congressional Budget Office announced the 2012 federal budget deficit: $1.1 trillion. Not only has the president cut the deficit by $312 billion during his first term (so far), but he's cut the deficit by $200 billion in the past year alone. And the CBO projected that the 2013 Obama budget, if enacted as is, would shrink the deficit to $977 billion -- a four year total of nearly $500 billion in deficit reduction.

In fact ( I know how conservatives hate facts ) the president is responsible for the lowest government spending growth in 60 years, according to the Wall Street Journal's Market Watch.

Reagan had the greatest spending at Annualized Growth of Federal spending in his first term at 8.7% Bush's second term had the second highest at 8.1%. His first term was at 7.3%
Obama has had the lowest at 1.4%. Next to Obama was Clinton first at 3.2% and Clinton second at 3.9%

Fact: the president's record is exactly the opposite of what Romney says. And how long ago was this statistic released by the Wall Street Journal and subsequently affirmed by fact checkers? Five months ago.

Furthermore, I can name two Democratic presidents who've cut the deficit through the duration of their presidencies: Clinton and Obama. And what about Republican presidents? Bush 43? He turned a $200 billion surplus into a $400 billion deficit by the end of his first term, and a $1.2 trillion deficit by the end of his second term. Bush 41? No. Reagan? No. Ford? No. Nixon? No. The last Republican president who cut the deficit was Eisenhower. Of course we don't see Republicans like Ike anymore, do we?
 
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