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Pope resigns

You should also tell it to the majority of American Catholics who pretty much ignore anything that comes out of the Vatican.

When you say "American Catholics," are you referring to the American Catholic group. If so, you'd be correct that a majority of them ignore the Vatican. If, however, you are referring to practicing Catholics, your claim here is wishful hyperbole.
 
I wouldn't go that far. Indeed, much of the time, you could see what rivalries, property disputes, political disputes, or social anxiety were propelling events forward. However, that does not negate the probability that in many or most of these cases, the reality of witchcraft existed. Views of the Church changed from the first many centuries to downplay the existence of witchcraft, to embracing it by the 14th and 15th centuries, and continually evolving its definition. From up on high to the lower rungs of the Church, for different circumstances it was possible for people to believe in witchcraft's existence in a given area. Now, in some cases it was more of the outsider priest that saw heresy and witchcraft in comparison with the local priest (sometimes the latter would get more anxious about the former because of it). Many episodes in Germany after the Protestantism took hold, clearly demonstrate the belief held by not only the victim (or their families), but also the court systems, was that witchcraft did in fact exist (in this one particular case I am thinking of, they just had to go through a more scientific process to prove it). Someone of a rival family, however often we are aware that they are trying to diminish our influence in this township, we do not eliminate the possibility that they will use (or have used) witchcraft against us. When someone has a personal grudge against me (and I against them), I could wonder if they may have made a pact with Satan and went to the Sabbat. This also does not begin to address folklore magic and witchcraft beliefs that were deeply ingrained in a culture.

If you want a more contemporary example, see South Africa's witchcraft beliefs. Social, political, or property disputes certainly are what we see at the helm of each person's problem. However, in their world, it quite literally is a series of good magic, bad magic, and anti-magic practices.

Once you discover that witchcraft did not actually exist, it is altogether too easy to then chalk it all up to the very observable social and political disputes that are influencing matters, when belief does actually matter.

It certainly is a fascinating topic, and much more complicated than a lot of people think.
 
Good riddance





I agree.

I don't know Tim Minchin, but he sure hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't use the same words, but I certainly agree with his message.

Anyone who is upset by what he said should stop the things that he sang about from happening.

When protecting a religion from criticism is more important to its leaders than protecting children from sex abuse that religion has a serious problem.




"As one of the most powerful and influential forces in the world, religion should never be off-limits to satirists." ~ Tim Minchin
 
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And what happens to the slave owners in the bible?

I'm not siding one way or another, but saying that the bible condones slavery is a stretch I can't let pass.

It's not a stretch, it's in bloody black and white. You're just embarrassed because you believe in a book that advocates slavery so you're desperately trying to twist it around to rationalize your beliefs.
 
When you say "American Catholics," are you referring to the American Catholic group. If so, you'd be correct that a majority of them ignore the Vatican. If, however, you are referring to practicing Catholics, your claim here is wishful hyperbole.

I'm talking about practicing Catholics in America who largely ignore Papal decrees on abortion and birth control and many other things because they're absurd.

Just like Catholicism.
 
I agree.
I don't know Tim Minchin, but he sure hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't use the same words, but I certainly agree with his message.
Anyone who is upset by what he said should stop the things that he sang about from happening.
When protecting a religion from criticism is more important to its leaders than protecting children from sex abuse that religion has a serious problem.
"As one of the most powerful and influential forces in the world, religion should never be off-limits to satirists." ~ Tim Minchin

He's my kind of kinky, check out 'if you really loved me' (my favorite of his), or masterpieces like 'Woody Allen Jesus' and '10 foot **** and a few hundred virgins'.

Don't they sell brushes in England?

He's Australian.
 
You guys jack this thread up to the point that you're talking about abortion? It's about a resigning Pope.
 
It's not a stretch, it's in bloody black and white. You're just embarrassed because you believe in a book that advocates slavery so you're desperately trying to twist it around to rationalize your beliefs.

I'm not a Christian. Unlike most christians, and especially Catholics, I've actually read, studied, understood, then applied reasoning, to the bible. Which is a large reason why I'm not Christian.

No where in the bible is slavory condoned, or given a pass. The folks that practice slavory tend to end up dead, or in dire straits. A rich man has as much chance to get into heaven as a camel passing through the eye of a needle. Well, slave owners, as a general rule, were all rich men. The most famous slave owner in the bible had his first born son murdered by God.
 
I'm not a Christian. Unlike most christians, and especially Catholics, I've actually read, studied, understood, then applied reasoning, to the bible. Which is a large reason why I'm not Christian.

No where in the bible is slavory condoned, or given a pass. The folks that practice slavory tend to end up dead, or in dire straits. A rich man has as much chance to get into heaven as a camel passing through the eye of a needle. Well, slave owners, as a general rule, were all rich men. The most famous slave owner in the bible had his first born son murdered by God.

Though I agree with your point you cheapen it by insulting Christians. There is no need to do that. There are plenty of Christians ho have "read, studied, understood, then applied reasoning, to the bible".
 
It's not a stretch, it's in bloody black and white. You're just embarrassed because you believe in a book that advocates slavery so you're desperately trying to twist it around to rationalize your beliefs.

It doesn't advocate slavery. Believe it or not, during biblical times, slavery was a part of normal everyday life.
 
I'm not a Christian. Unlike most christians, and especially Catholics, I've actually read, studied, understood, then applied reasoning, to the bible. Which is a large reason why I'm not Christian.

No where in the bible is slavory condoned, or given a pass. The folks that practice slavory tend to end up dead, or in dire straits. A rich man has as much chance to get into heaven as a camel passing through the eye of a needle. Well, slave owners, as a general rule, were all rich men. The most famous slave owner in the bible had his first born son murdered by God.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

There are other passages I could quote as well. Nowhere in the Bible is there a single condemnation of slavery, in fact it speaks over and over about how slaves are to obey their masters, even if they are being abused or treated badly. There is no excuse, according to 1 Timothy, for anyone to disobey anything that their Christian master tells them to do, how can you say that's not giving it a pass? It even teaches that Christians are fine and dandy owning other people!

It amazes me how hard people work to get around the facts in black and white. The Bible supports slavery. Just read it! It never condemns slavery, not once. Even the most revered writers of the Bible never condemn slavery, in fact, they directly encourage it and demand slaves to return to their masters.

Facts are facts.
 
It doesn't advocate slavery. Believe it or not, during biblical times, slavery was a part of normal everyday life.

And the Bible, like everything else, is a product of it's cultural time. It is no better than any other book, religion or social movement.
 
And the Bible, like everything else, is a product of it's cultural time. It is no better than any other book, religion or social movement.

Okay, but that's your opinion and nothing more. Obviously BILLIONS of people disagree with you.
 
Okay, but that's your opinion and nothing more. Obviously BILLIONS of people disagree with you.

It doesn't matter what people believe, only the facts matter.
 
It doesn't matter what people believe, only the facts matter.

Again, opinion and nothing more. Your opinions mean no more than anyone else's.
 
Again, opinion and nothing more. Your opinions mean no more than anyone else's.

You seem to have a serious aversion to evidence and facts, don't you?
 
You seem to have a serious aversion to evidence and facts, don't you?

Not at all. I just don't seem to think that you are a veritable library of facts. You have presented lots of opinions, not many facts. :shrug:
 
Believing in God is faith. Proof is the only thing that absolutely positively destroys faith. I have faith, I don't even want proof.
You seem to have a serious aversion to evidence and facts, don't you?
 
What is this here? Not sure if true or not.

Pope Allegedly Sought Immunity For Abuse Crimes Just Before Resigning | Addicting Info

Pope received news of his warrant of arrest before resignation - 1 Million Voices Against CBCP

THE TRUTH: Pope received news of his warrant of arrest before resignation

We knew something had to be up with the resignation of Pope Benedict. After all, Popes don’t just resign; in fact, this is the first time a Pope has resigned in 600 years. Therefore, the hoopla surrounding this is more than understandable. However, as per usual with the Catholic Church, there seems to be a catch, and, lo and behold, it likely surrounds the infamous abuse scandals that have plagued the church’s image for so long.

It seems that with his resignation announced, the Pope, whose given name is Joseph Ratzinger, has a meeting with the Italian President, Giorgio Napolitano on February 23 to beg for immunity against prosecution for allegations of child sex crimes. Apparently, this hastily arranged meeting, and likely the resignation as well, are the result of a supposed note received by the Vatican from an undisclosed European government that stated that there are plans to issue a warrant for the Pope’s arrest. This letter was allegedly received on February 4, and Ratzinger resigned a week later. Now, there’s no way people can ignore how fishy this is. The first Pope to resign in 600 years does so after panicking about an impending arrest and in the midst of a hastily arranged meeting begging for protection from the Italian government? How they will keep people from connecting the two is beyond me. Chances are, the world will be popping popcorn and steadily watching.

Well, for once, the guy might not get off easy. The International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and state calls upon the Italian President to deny help to Ratzinger, and to “not collude in criminality. Let’s just hope that Napolitano does not cave. However, there may be another avenue to make sure the Pope is brought to justice if the Italian President does cave.

It seems that in addition to these alleged attempts by this European government to prosecute, a New York based organization, The Centre for Constitutional Rights, has accused the Pope and his Cardinals of possible crimes against humanity for sheltering pedophile priests. The non-profit legal group has requested an ICC inquiry on behalf of the Survivor’s Network, citing the church’s “long-standing and pervasive system of sexual violence.”

Apparently, the Vatican has no comment. Well, of course it doesn’t. It knows that Ratzinger and his henchmen are guilty, and now they are just scrambling to save face and save his keister from jail. Shame, since that is exactly where he belongs.

The thing is, this institution knows no bounds when it comes to protecting their own, no matter how heinous the crimes. Anyone not living under a rock knows that the Pope and his cronies have abusing children for decades, and likely centuries. The thing is, they are just the biggest example of religion getting people passes. Shameful, but true. All those of us with a sense of justice and conscience can do is hope that one, if not both, of these attempts at legal action is successful.
 
l never liked this pope . john paul was more likable .
 
Hell will literally freeze over before the Pope is arrested.
 
Just found some more links. Not sure how much power The International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State has, but they forced a pope to resign and have him asking for immunity. Seems like someone turned up the A/C in Hell eh mak2?

itccs.org| The International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State

itccs.org | Pope Benedict to seek immunity and protection from Italian President Giorgio Napolitano on February 23

Letter to Italian President alleges Pope seeks 'legal immunity'

In a statement to Reuters today, Vatican officials announced that Joseph Ratzinger will remain a permanent resident of Vatican City after his resignation. Doing so will offer him legal protection from any attempt to prosecute him in connection with sexual abuse cases around the world, Church sources said today

"His continued presence in the Vatican is necessary, otherwise he might be defenseless".

This startling admission of guilt by the church is also a direct obstruction of justice, and lends more weight to the charge by the ITCCS and others that the Vatican has arranged with the Italian government to shield Ratzinger from criminal prosecution, in violation of international laws ratified by Italy.


**** just got real.
 
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