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EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

mak2 said:
I am not quite sure the point of this, maybe Bush did not have as good intel, he never got OBL. If you are trying to point out a difference in morals less than 50 times is still quite a few if you think it is wrong.
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Well other than Obama having more foreign complicity than Bush. Not so much the issue over Morals.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

mak2 said:
I am not quite sure the point of this, maybe Bush did not have as good intel, he never got OBL. If you are trying to point out a difference in morals less than 50 times is still quite a few if you think it is wrong.
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Well, it is a point. I am not so sure about some miraculous increase in the validity of intel from the last administration to this one. And it should be noted that the killing of OBL was at least in some part creditable to both administrations. As far as morals go, I don't believe I ever heard of Bush signing an order to kill American's based only on the administrations say so....Could you point that one out for me?
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

no, I was just trying to reply to MMC. He brought up the 50:300 ratio. I still think if we get a shot at senior AQ it is probably a good idea to take it, even if he is an American. I am thinking about it now though.
j-mac said:
Well, it is a point. I am not so sure about some miraculous increase in the validity of intel from the last administration to this one. And it should be noted that the killing of OBL was at least in some part creditable to both administrations. As far as morals go, I don't believe I ever heard of Bush signing an order to kill American's based only on the administrations say so....Could you point that one out for me?
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

mak2 said:
no, I was just trying to reply to MMC. He brought up the 50:300 ratio. I still think if we get a shot at senior AQ it is probably a good idea to take it, even if he is an American. I am thinking about it now though.
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Agreed, However, I do think that some sort of oversight through the courts, like say FISA, or congress say the Intel, or Foreign Relations committees should be in the loop, and have to agree before allowing the summary killing of an American.

Please understand, if an American turns coat, and actively plots against America, or her citizens, then we have to consider them as part of the enemy force, and they deserve the consequences....I am extremely uneasy though about the vague language concerning this in the most recent order from the WH. It is vague enough, and without oversight as to open the door to targeting not only those overseas, but at some point you can see some crazy scenario where it could be used on our own shores.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

I think we pretty much agree on this one. I think maybe who is in the white house makes you a bit more distrustful than me, but I can see your point. If it really only applies to senior AQ and stays that way, it is probably a good thing.
j-mac said:
Agreed, However, I do think that some sort of oversight through the courts, like say FISA, or congress say the Intel, or Foreign Relations committees should be in the loop, and have to agree before allowing the summary killing of an American.

Please understand, if an American turns coat, and actively plots against America, or her citizens, then we have to consider them as part of the enemy force, and they deserve the consequences....I am extremely uneasy though about the vague language concerning this in the most recent order from the WH. It is vague enough, and without oversight as to open the door to targeting not only those overseas, but at some point you can see some crazy scenario where it could be used on our own shores.
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

danarhea said:
You don't see the problem? I do. I do not trust the government to make the decision on whether citizens live or die. We fought a war against King George to stop crap like this from happening.
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Academic debate over these issues doesn't accomplish anything. The alternative is what? Allow them to plot and commit acts of terrorism in peace because they won't allow themselves to be captured? We're not talking about your friendly neighborhood fatty on his way to the Pleasantville mall to buy a soft serve.

danarhea said:
But maybe you are right. Maybe all the crap Bush was doing, like spying on American citizens without a warrant, and torturing people was OK, because the government said they had a reason to do so...... But wait. You liberals bashed the crap out of Bush for doing those things.
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I've never supported torture and, while I don't support the idea of warrantless wiretapping, it doesn't really bother me all that much as nothing derived from it would be admissible in court. If you can't be captured in war then you should be killed.

danarhea said:
Here's the deal, summed up in one phrase..... The Constitution of the United States of America.... It trumps Bush, and yes, it sure the hell trumps Obama too.
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No Constitutional right is absolute. That is elementary civics.
 
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

danarhea said:
You don't see the problem? I do. I do not trust the government to make the decision on whether citizens live or die. We fought a war against King George to stop crap like this from happening. But maybe you are right. Maybe all the crap Bush was doing, like spying on American citizens without a warrant, and torturing people was OK, because the government said they had a reason to do so...... But wait. You liberals bashed the crap out of Bush for doing those things. You liberals especially bashed Bush for spying, and nobody got killed because they got spied on. So why isn't what Bush was doing OK with you, but it's OK for Obama to kill Americans without due process? Is the Constitution OK to judge Bush with, but wrong for judging the actions of Obama?

Here's the deal, summed up in one phrase..... The Constitution of the United States of America.... It trumps Bush, and yes, it sure the hell trumps Obama too.
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Even the "liberals" are upset with the idea of drone strikes on Americans. No one who has been paying attention to the progression of government powers is on board with the idea of killing people who are suspected of being terrorists, just on the say so of the president.

Both Stewart and Colbert, neither of whom has been accused of being a right winger, skewered the idea on their programs. Right off hand, I can't think of any informed commentator from either side who is OK with this huge extra Constitutional power grab, but I suppose there must be someone.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

j-mac said:
Agreed, However, I do think that some sort of oversight through the courts, like say FISA, or congress say the Intel, or Foreign Relations committees should be in the loop, and have to agree before allowing the summary killing of an American.

Please understand, if an American turns coat, and actively plots against America, or her citizens, then we have to consider them as part of the enemy force, and they deserve the consequences....I am extremely uneasy though about the vague language concerning this in the most recent order from the WH. It is vague enough, and without oversight as to open the door to targeting not only those overseas, but at some point you can see some crazy scenario where it could be used on our own shores.
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I strongly disagree. Until a citizen actually commits a crime, he is protected by the Constitution. And, again, I do NOT trust the government, in any way, shape, or form, to decide who lives, and who dies without due process. True, we will be more protected by going after who we THINK MAY COMMIT a terrorist act, but as Ben Franklin once said, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.". In addition, when asked what kind of government we were going to have, Franklin replied "A Republic, if we can keep it". Looks to me that we are not keeping it, but throwing it in the trash heap instead. Good bye, Republic. We are going to miss you.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

Will the government be able to carry out drone strikes on Americans that make less than 250k annually or just above 250k?
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

I am pleasantly surprised that this drone issue has caused such an uproar. It has taken a few years, but at least people are objecting.

My cynical side says nothing of substance will come of it, simply because the hoax of the GWOT is so well established in the public perception.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

This might be interesting to all.....

Spy-Rdees.jpg




Created thru research by the US Air Force!
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

danarhea said:
I strongly disagree. Until a citizen actually commits a crime, he is protected by the Constitution. And, again, I do NOT trust the government, in any way, shape, or form, to decide who lives, and who dies without due process. True, we will be more protected by going after who we THINK MAY COMMIT a terrorist act, but as Ben Franklin once said, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.". In addition, when asked what kind of government we were going to have, Franklin replied "A Republic, if we can keep it". Looks to me that we are not keeping it, but throwing it in the trash heap instead. Good bye, Republic. We are going to miss you.
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I agree that both parties are trashing the fundamentals in their own pursuits, however, this is neither Franklin's time, nor Madison's, and if there is one thing threatening our basic rights as American's, it is summed up just a couple of postings up on the page as articulated by Napoleon....

Napoleon said:
No Constitutional right is absolute. That is elementary civics.
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It should be frightening to every American that liberals who believe they are in total charge today actually believe this.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

You're right J-Mac, the average american is pretty well brainwashed, and that's sad.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

Henry David said:
You're right J-Mac, the average american is pretty well brainwashed, and that's sad.
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Don't feel too bad. The average person in the world is brainwashed and, in some places, the vast majority.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

American said:
I'd like to think this couldn't happen here, but I have a little bit of concern that we are heading down a slippery slope. It didn't just start. It started with local police buying and obtain surplus military equipment. And not he govt is all over the idea of limiting fire arms.
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I think that if they can find them with a drone, then they should capture them and torture them for a while. You know, ship them to Egypt or Bulgaria or any of the 51 black sites outside the Continental USA where the torture is "more" legal. Then ship them to Guantanamo for some theatrical justice and then hang the bastards. I mean, think of the jobs it makes or just "kaboom' and no new jobs. Besides that, GWShiiteForBrains proved that you can surely trust the decisions coming from the Ivory Tower, commonly referred to as the Whitehouse, or not, eh?
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

j-mac said:
It should be frightening to every American that liberals who believe they are in total charge today actually believe this.
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Why? Because its the truth? None of the rights in the Constitution have ever been absolute nor will they ever be.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

Napoleon said:
Why? Because its the truth? None of the rights in the Constitution have ever been absolute nor will they ever be.
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I won't entertain your fantasy of the Constitution being moot.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

j-mac said:
I won't entertain your fantasy of the Constitution being moot.
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You mean you refuse to accept the reality that there is no such thing as an absolute Constitutional right.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

Napoleon said:
You mean you refuse to accept the reality that there is no such thing as an absolute Constitutional right.
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No, I mean what I posted....You can read no?
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

j-mac said:
No, I mean what I posted....You can read no?
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Sure, and what I read was pure right wing myth. No such thing as absolute Constitutional rights. Get used to it.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

Napoleon said:
Sure, and what I read was pure right wing myth. No such thing as absolute Constitutional rights. Get used to it.
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I am going to give you an answer I answered some time ago from a different website.

If you have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness then so does everyone else. If one other does not have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness then no one does. If all species respond to any command that one simple command is to survive. Every individual has the right to survive. If every individual has the right to survive then it follows that every individual should be free to act in ways that ensure their survival. Any arguments made that would assert that the rights of the individual are not absolute are tyrannical arguments that would subjugate the individual to accepting rights granted them by the tyrant rather than believing rights are inherent. The rights of the individual are natural rights and if they were granted at all they were granted by God and can not be taken away by any legal authority regardless of what act of legislation may of passed declaring otherwise. Rights are most certainly absolute, what is not absolute is that every individual will fight for their rights.

Deal with it.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

Dittohead not! said:
Quite impressive, but fake.

At least, for now.
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I think he needs to do a little more research.

360_insect_robot_0418.jpg


So what's hot at DARPA right now? Bugs. The creepy, crawly flying kind. The Agency's Microsystems Technology Office is hard at work on HI-MEMS (Hybrid Insect Micro-Electro-Mechanical System), raising real insects filled with electronic circuitry, which could be guided using GPS technology to specific targets via electrical impulses sent to their muscles. These half-bug, half-chip creations — DARPA calls them "insect cyborgs" — would be ideal for surveillance missions, the agency says in a brief description on its website.

DARPA declined TIME's request to interview Dr. Lal about his program and the progress he is making in producing the bugs. The agency added that there is no timetable for turning backyard pests into battlefield assets. But in a written statement, spokeswoman Jan Walker said that "living, adult-stage insects have emerged with the embedded systems intact." Presumably, enemy arsenals will soon be well-stocked with Raid.

Read more: Unleashing the Bugs of War - TIME

Military Mosquito Robots Collecting DNA & Blood! - YouTube

Moreover the US Army was working on Beetles.
 
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