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Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global [W:478]

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

But it does. I've linked many things. I topped when it became clear you weren't reading it.


Wow, the nerve....You have the absolute gall to talk about what others read, or don't read that you post links to, that can span from a simple article of opinion that you agree with, to some big study that contains one line in a hundred pages that supports your belief, but you won't post the relevant point. That is pure obfuscation on your part, trying to make yourself seem scholarly when presenting your blind faith in AGW.

You then dismiss anything offered on the opposing argument without even reading it yourself, or in simpler terms when a video is given, and all you have to do is watch it and you don't but instead comment on it attacking the person talking, in this case a commentator, Krauthammer, which I would stand up against you in a debate any minute, of any day of the week, and failing to hear whom he was talking about, or addressing the person, showing your ignorance.

BTW, the person he spoke of Freeman Dyson, probably one of the smartest people on the planet, and an Obama supporter himself for your information...A little background for you....

Freeman Dyson is a scientist of enormous stature. For more than four decades, he taught theoretical physics at Princeton's Institute for Advanced Study - described by the New York Times as "the most rarefied community of scholars" in the US.
In a recent 8,000-word profile, the Times says Dyson is "a scientist whose intelligence is revered by other scientists." One colleague describes him as "infinitely smart." Another says: "You point Freeman at a problem and he’ll solve it. He’s extraordinarily powerful.”

Dyson is also a longstanding member of JASON - "a small government-financed group of the country’s finest scientists" that evaluates matters of an often classified nature. At JASON meetings, in which everyone present is considered brilliant, reports the Times, someone will idly pose a math question and Dyson will quickly provide an answer, pointing out that "the smallest such number is 18 digits long."

In the words of one of Dyson's colleagues, "When this happened one day at lunch, the table fell silent; nobody had the slightest idea how Freeman could have known such a fact or...could have derived it in his head in about two seconds.”

Dyson, who has written several books and received numerous awards (including 21 honorary degrees), is a big-picture thinker. The Times says he's known for his "interpretive clarity" and his "penetrating ability to grasp the method and significance of what many kinds of scientists do."

Now 85, Dyson has lived in the same house for more than 50 years and has been married to the same woman for equally as long. His car bears an Obama bumper sticker.

For the past four years, he has also challenged prevailing ideas about climate change. In a nutshell, he thinks the computer-generated models being used to predict long-term climate consequences are flawed because scientists have too little information about many of the variables that must be taken into account.

In 2007, Dyson reminded a Salon writer: "I was in the business of studying climate change at least 30 years ago before it became fashionable." Having seen many faddish notions come and go, Dyson is distressed that many environmentalists now believe "global warming is the greatest threat to the ecology of our planet."

Although the public thinks that "anyone who is skeptical about the dangers of global warming is an enemy of the environment," he feels the opposite is true.

"Many of the skeptics are passionate environmentalists," he insists. But they believe old-fashioned pollution and nuclear weapons are bigger concerns.

Based on Dyson's understanding of where the science of biotechnology is headed, he feels that "in 50 years, this whole problem of fossil fuels will evaporate." Just as computer technology has transformed the world in recent decades, he foresees a future in which biologists are able to manipulate the fuel-producing - and carbon dioxide processing - properties of trees.

"We'll have an ample supply of fuel without having to dig it out of the ground," he insists. "Fifty years is long enough for that kind of technology to take over the world, and 50 years is short enough so that the climate won't have changed very much in the meantime."

Dyson may or may not be correct about global warming. But as he himself points out, his arguments deserve to be heard. Silencing our finest minds won't lead to a better future.

Freeman Dyson and global warming

Now the man speaking himself....



There, both medium's for you print, and video. Now read, and watch before commenting Joe, and try to give an intelligent retort please. Thank you.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Wow, the nerve....You have the absolute gall to talk about what others read, or don't read that you post links to, that can span from a simple article of opinion that you agree with, to some big study that contains one line in a hundred pages that supports your belief, but you won't post the relevant point. That is pure obfuscation on your part, trying to make yourself seem scholarly when presenting your blind faith in AGW.

You then dismiss anything offered on the opposing argument without even reading it yourself, or in simpler terms when a video is given, and all you have to do is watch it and you don't but instead comment on it attacking the person talking, in this case a commentator, Krauthammer, which I would stand up against you in a debate any minute, of any day of the week, and failing to hear whom he was talking about, or addressing the person, showing your ignorance.

BTW, the person he spoke of Freeman Dyson, probably one of the smartest people on the planet, and an Obama supporter himself for your information...A little background for you....



Now the man speaking himself....



There, both medium's for you print, and video. Now read, and watch before commenting Joe, and try to give an intelligent retort please. Thank you.


yes, he's a bright fellow. But you'd demonize him if he said the opposite. His only attraction to you is he says what you want heard. He still doesn't represent the entire community, not even close. And he is not the only smart fellow in the room.

You should always seek a rebuttal:

Of course, models have been tested against the real world (both today's and eons ago's) and many of Dyson's other objections have been rebutted elsewhere. He also did not address the real world impacts already observed: ice melt, sea level rise, ocean acidification and more. His main concern seems to be that worrying about climate change distracts from more important problems such as poverty and infectious disease. Many might note that poverty (the inundation of Bangladesh) and infectious disease (improved conditions for transmission) are also problems exacerbated by climate change.

But Dyson's purpose seems to be to throw out "heretical" ideas that can then spur further debate. (As even he would admit, his heresies are a little more grounded in the real world when he's talking about nuclear weapons. Before discussing climate change, he told a roomful of people who probably want to put former President Ronald Reagan on Mount Rushmore that the Great Communicator blew a real chance to rid the world of nuclear weapons in 1986 because he was too attached to the "Star Wars" missile defense program.) As he said: "I know a lot about nuclear weapons and nothing about climate change."

News Blog: Freeman Dyson and the irresistible urge to be contrary about climate change

So, J, I dismiss for reason and not arbitrarily. Can you actually read and listen?
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

yes, he's a bright fellow. But you'd demonize him if he said the opposite. His only attraction to you is he says what you want heard. He still doesn't represent the entire community, not even close. And he is not the only smart fellow in the room.

You should always seek a rebuttal:

Of course, models have been tested against the real world (both today's and eons ago's) and many of Dyson's other objections have been rebutted elsewhere. He also did not address the real world impacts already observed: ice melt, sea level rise, ocean acidification and more. His main concern seems to be that worrying about climate change distracts from more important problems such as poverty and infectious disease. Many might note that poverty (the inundation of Bangladesh) and infectious disease (improved conditions for transmission) are also problems exacerbated by climate change.

But Dyson's purpose seems to be to throw out "heretical" ideas that can then spur further debate. (As even he would admit, his heresies are a little more grounded in the real world when he's talking about nuclear weapons. Before discussing climate change, he told a roomful of people who probably want to put former President Ronald Reagan on Mount Rushmore that the Great Communicator blew a real chance to rid the world of nuclear weapons in 1986 because he was too attached to the "Star Wars" missile defense program.) As he said: "I know a lot about nuclear weapons and nothing about climate change."

News Blog: Freeman Dyson and the irresistible urge to be contrary about climate change

So, J, I dismiss for reason and not arbitrarily. Can you actually read and listen?

*sigh* So, he's a "heretic" eh? That's not rebuttal, that is character assassination.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

*sigh* So, he's a "heretic" eh? That's not rebuttal, that is character assassination.

You never to read for comprehension. Always throwing in nonsense. No one is attacking his character. Only noting this isn't his area of expertise, something he admits to. Can't you even recognize this simple truth?
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

You never to read for comprehension. Always throwing in nonsense. No one is attacking his character. Only noting this isn't his area of expertise, something he admits to. Can't you even recognize this simple truth?

How many including you hold out Noam Chomsky as some kind of end all of a conversation in matters he has NO training in? I remember much Joe.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

How many including you hold out Noam Chomsky as some kind of end all of a conversation in matters he has NO training in? I remember much Joe.

You do realize I've never used Chomsky. I only asked MM once why if he MM said Chomsky was correct (he did which is why I addressed him) did he denounce him so. Other than that, I've never used Chomsky. So you may want to find another example.

What I have done here is link those in the field, the overwhelming consensus, using peer reviewed documents, or those referencing those documents.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

You do realize I've never used Chomsky. I only asked MM once why if he MM said Chomsky was correct (he did which is why I addressed him) did he denounce him so. Other than that, I've never used Chomsky. So you may want to find another example.

What I have done here is link those in the field, the overwhelming consensus, using peer reviewed documents, or those referencing those documents.

Well, that's good to know Joe....That a group of like minded people, whom all agree with each other at dinner parties, and slap each others backs agree with each other, and write reviews of each others work that is in agreement as well....Shocking I tell ya....:roll:
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Well, that's good to know Joe....That a group of like minded people, whom all agree with each other at dinner parties, and slap each others backs agree with each other, and write reviews of each others work that is in agreement as well....Shocking I tell ya....:roll:

You mean like they agree on science? J, you use that argument with anyone on anything. Including your side. The fact remains, these are scientist who largely take their professions seriously. They are not political ideologues on on a discussion site. The contempt someone you show for science has always amazed me.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

The blogger took the draft report out of context. That report states that some argue for a mechanism that amplifies solar forcing (a natural factor). However, subsequent paragraphs discount that hypothesis. The closing paragraph of that section of Chapter 7 states:

Although there is some evidence that ionization from cosmic rays may enhance aerosol nucleation in the free troposphere, there is medium evidence and high agreement that he cosmic ray-ionization mechanism is too weak to influence global concentrations CCN or their change over the last century or during a solar cycle in any climatically significant way. The lack of trend in the cosmic ray intensity over the last 50 years provides another strong argument agains the hypothesis of a major contribution of cosmic rays to ongoing climate change.

The draft document also notes in its summary for policymakers, "No robust association between changes in cosmic rays and cloudiness has been identified."

In other words, once one reads the draft report's language in its full context, there is no "game-changing admission of enhanced solar forcing." The report does not reflect reduced confidence in AGW.

Another Faux report uncritically seized on by deniers? Say it isn't so!

Yet another "skeptic" who didn't bother going to the primary source.

You mean we cannot be skeptical... especially when the IPCC and its machinery have been caught in fraud, strong arm tactics, and attempted blackballing of those who challenge the theory of global warming?

It's odd don't you think, that they can't figure out the role of clouds in all this, discount the influence of the sun (and it seems to have an effect as it gets significantly cooler in most places at night), the role of the oceans, and the fact this is a volatile planet that has seen great temperature swings? Computer models are flawed, and some of the scenario's they foment are laughable.

The above are not small variables, yet we have yahoo's who claim this is solid science??????????????????? I really wonder what type of freakazoid behavior we would have beyond the hysteria we have today if we had a Little Ice Age... as they did some 500-years ago? Perhaps we'd have to go out and sacrifice something... like our freedom in order to "save the planet". Never mind... the Socialists have their claws in that already.

BTW... no global warming in the past 15-years.

For those who haven't seen it... here are some experts who think this is all Bullchit.
From the BBC and CBC.

I love what the Africans say near the end of the BBC documentary.

THE GREAT GLOBAL WARMING SWINDLE


GLOBAL WARMING - DOOMSDAY CALLED OFF
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

*sigh* So, he's a "heretic" eh? That's not rebuttal, that is character assassination.

He calls himself a heretic, he revels in the title... If you actually knew anything about the man other than the cherry picked portrayal bullet points you've been fed, you would know that he doesn't dispute AGW. He doesn't dispute Co2's role as a greenhouse gas that is warming the planet. To re-iterate some of what Boo said, he just thinks it isn't as important or as big of a problem as the mainstream community does. He also thinks we'll be able to "techno" fix the problem in the future before it gets out of control.

This is all a far cry from your partisan polemic understanding of what he represents as though he debunks the entire notion of AGW as junk science.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

You mean we cannot be skeptical... especially when the IPCC and its machinery have been caught in fraud, strong arm tactics, and attempted blackballing of those who challenge the theory of global warming?

It's odd don't you think, that they can't figure out the role of clouds in all this, discount the influence of the sun (and it seems to have an effect as it gets significantly cooler in most places at night), the role of the oceans, and the fact this is a volatile planet that has seen great temperature swings? Computer models are flawed, and some of the scenario's they foment are laughable.

The above are not small variables, yet we have yahoo's who claim this is solid science??????????????????? I really wonder what type of freakazoid behavior we would have beyond the hysteria we have today if we had a Little Ice Age... as they did some 500-years ago? Perhaps we'd have to go out and sacrifice something... like our freedom in order to "save the planet". Never mind... the Socialists have their claws in that already.

BTW... no global warming in the past 15-years.

For those who haven't seen it... here are some experts who think this is all Bullchit.
From the BBC and CBC.

I love what the Africans say near the end of the BBC documentary.

This is all nonsense that has been debunked throughout this thread. Along with code and j-mac you also do not understand science, at all.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

You mean like they agree on science? J, you use that argument with anyone on anything. Including your side. The fact remains, these are scientist who largely take their professions seriously. They are not political ideologues on on a discussion site. The contempt someone you show for science has always amazed me.

I don't have contempt for science Joe, just for those that would cheapen the use of science for gain, as is with what is going on here.

For instance, You believe that man is causing warming of the earth through the prospect of existence on the planet, and accelerating it through the use of energy with current technology we have today. However, your proposal to strive toward a solution is not to find something that works reliably, or even semi reliably, but rather to do away with the energy's we have today without a viable replacement ready to go. That' one. Another, is that AGW proponents say that we can mitigate our use of fossil fuels through the creation of a fiat currency called carbon credits, that is really nothing more than a scheme of wealth redistribution between nations and does NOTHING to actually mitigate the use, or overuse of, and production of Co2 into the atmosphere. Lastly, much like what caused Kyoto to collapse, in that you can't get all the nations of the earth on board with doing any one thing at one time in unison, you will never get other countries to actually stop using cheap, Co2 creating modes of energy, therefore what you have is only dupes like us giving up the engine of prosperity while others laugh and continue to use them. It's a sham.

It is totally political, and a fraud, cooked up by oligarchs that want to believe that a free nation shouldn't exist, and that it just isn't fair that countries like the US should be so wealthy, while backwaters like sub saharan Africa should live in mud huts and starve. And that we must give up our standard of living because it is not enjoyed by everyone else. It is dishonest, foolish, and unnecessary at this time.

If the globe is warming, or cooling, we must find ways to cope with what is coming, not at a panicked crisis mode, because it could be 500 or a 1000 years in the future, but rather continue to develop and invent, not by choking off modes of success, and spreading the wealth, but making invention worth a premium so that it makes sense to do so.

You AGW believers have got to settle down and figure a way to work hand in hand with people, instead of using fear, and wild claims to force what you want to see happen. It is a fools game you have adopted.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

This is all nonsense that has been debunked throughout this thread. Along with code and j-mac you also do not understand science, at all.

Nothing has been debunked, just debated. Beware the man who thinks that everyone that disagrees with him is stupid, fore he has a fool telling him so.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

He calls himself a heretic, he revels in the title... If you actually knew anything about the man other than the cherry picked portrayal bullet points you've been fed, you would know that he doesn't dispute AGW. He doesn't dispute Co2's role as a greenhouse gas that is warming the planet. To re-iterate some of what Boo said, he just thinks it isn't as important or as big of a problem as the mainstream community does. He also thinks we'll be able to "techno" fix the problem in the future before it gets out of control.

This is all a far cry from your partisan polemic understanding of what he represents as though he debunks the entire notion of AGW as junk science.


I know what Dyson says about AGW, but he takes, much like my own approach to it, a pragmatic approach.

We don't have the tech to replace current energy methods

We don't have reliable replacements

We do have centuries before any real panic needs take place

And, instead of using fear, we should be working toward better things..

The only reason you believers want to use such heightened rhetoric concerning the possibility of AGW is to ultimately control people....It is a cynical evil approach, full of liars, and fools.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

This is all nonsense that has been debunked throughout this thread. Along with code and j-mac you also do not understand science, at all.
Someone went through and debunked all those scientists in the BBC and CBC documentaries? ROTFLOL... did Algore join DP... ROTFLOL?

I don't understand science, but you do? You seem to be on a side that thinks this is all decided. That's not science.

I understand propaganda, and I'll stand with the scientists who don't believe we could change the climate if we tried.

Why is it they cannot figure out the roles of clouds, the oceans, and discount that burning ball in the sky? These are not small elements, yet they haven't a farking clue about how to value these things. BUT... TEAM ALGORE (what are his climatology qualifications beyond being a Socialist?) has all the answers, and will dictate them to us shortly.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

I don't have contempt for science Joe, just for those that would cheapen the use of science for gain, as is with what is going on here.

For instance, You believe that man is causing warming of the earth through the prospect of existence on the planet, and accelerating it through the use of energy with current technology we have today. However, your proposal to strive toward a solution is not to find something that works reliably, or even semi reliably, but rather to do away with the energy's we have today without a viable replacement ready to go. That' one. Another, is that AGW proponents say that we can mitigate our use of fossil fuels through the creation of a fiat currency called carbon credits, that is really nothing more than a scheme of wealth redistribution between nations and does NOTHING to actually mitigate the use, or overuse of, and production of Co2 into the atmosphere. Lastly, much like what caused Kyoto to collapse, in that you can't get all the nations of the earth on board with doing any one thing at one time in unison, you will never get other countries to actually stop using cheap, Co2 creating modes of energy, therefore what you have is only dupes like us giving up the engine of prosperity while others laugh and continue to use them. It's a sham.

It is totally political, and a fraud, cooked up by oligarchs that want to believe that a free nation shouldn't exist, and that it just isn't fair that countries like the US should be so wealthy, while backwaters like sub saharan Africa should live in mud huts and starve. And that we must give up our standard of living because it is not enjoyed by everyone else. It is dishonest, foolish, and unnecessary at this time.

If the globe is warming, or cooling, we must find ways to cope with what is coming, not at a panicked crisis mode, because it could be 500 or a 1000 years in the future, but rather continue to develop and invent, not by choking off modes of success, and spreading the wealth, but making invention worth a premium so that it makes sense to do so.

You AGW believers have got to settle down and figure a way to work hand in hand with people, instead of using fear, and wild claims to force what you want to see happen. It is a fools game you have adopted.

No where have I talked about solutions. But that's what makes it political for you. If its true, we might have to adjust. You don't want to adjust; therefore, for you, it can't be true. you'll fight it to your death, not because of the science, but because you don't want to ever have to address the consequences of it being true.

But that's politics. The science is just the science. Nothing more. And scientist don't disagree on it. Its as accepted as gravity. And this is true whether we do anything or not.

And unless you've been hiding under a rock, you know efforts have been made to deal with this. That is what alternative energy is about. No one of consequence has suggest we just stop doing anything. So, I'm not sure what else to tell you. You're wrong about the science. Wrong about who is political. And wrong about what's being done.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Nothing has been debunked, just debated. Beware the man who thinks that everyone that disagrees with him is stupid, fore he has a fool telling him so.

Putting down ignorant claims based on nonsense is not debate, it is debunking garbage. If I ran around these forums claiming the sun is green should others respect my opinion and hold it dear? Of course not. Like your failed predecessors you deal in bs, ignorance, and lack of critical thinking skills.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

I know what Dyson says about AGW, but he takes, much like my own approach to it, a pragmatic approach.

We don't have the tech to replace current energy methods

We don't have reliable replacements

We do have centuries before any real panic needs take place

And, instead of using fear, we should be working toward better things..

The only reason you believers want to use such heightened rhetoric concerning the possibility of AGW is to ultimately control people....It is a cynical evil approach, full of liars, and fools.

So much is wrong here it blows my mind.

The fact that you used Dyson as evidence of AGW being a myth shows you don't have the slightest clue what he says. Again, don't read right wing propaganda sites or you end up looking like a fool as you have here.

We could transition away from fossil fuels if you people would stop sabotaging the process, like you are now.

We have replacements but again, you fight them with every waking breath because you're a conservative and you're terrified of anything new.

Centuries? It would be an exaggeration to say a century. By the time I'm dying the world could be in a truly bad spot, my children could be screwed by this.

Fear? Oh please. This coming from the guy that says the worldwide scientific community is conspiring to trick everyone so that they can steal their money to feed the progressive milk machine. We don't need fear, we need policy and action to tackle the problem. If you're terrified its again because you're a "wet your pants scared" conservative.

Oh yeah there's that fear... we're trying to control you.... woooooh whoooooooHHHH ooooooH i'm coming to get you mac. I'm coming for your wallet.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Someone went through and debunked all those scientists in the BBC and CBC documentaries? ROTFLOL... did Algore join DP... ROTFLOL?

I don't understand science, but you do? You seem to be on a side that thinks this is all decided. That's not science.

I understand propaganda, and I'll stand with the scientists who don't believe we could change the climate if we tried.

Why is it they cannot figure out the roles of clouds, the oceans, and discount that burning ball in the sky? These are not small elements, yet they haven't a farking clue about how to value these things. BUT... TEAM ALGORE (what are his climatology qualifications beyond being a Socialist?) has all the answers, and will dictate them to us shortly.

I didn't watch those documentaries and haven't a clue what they said. I based my response on what you said. You admit that you know nothing of science so perhaps the problem lies in the translator. Everything you said was pop nonsense, where you got it from doesn't matter.

Discount the burning ball in the sky huh? Well gee... if we did that there wouldn't be any warming, or energy at all other than heat energy from gravitational forces squeezing down on the core of the earth... so I'm pretty sure they've accounted for the sun, lmao. This is why you should research what you're talking about first.

Every last aspect of climate change has not been figured out, no, and it never will be. In every scientific field we are learning more and more each day. What we've learned about climate change so far is more than enough to spur policy change. Until further notice there's no good reason to do otherwise.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boy what a snotty bunch you AGW cultists are...y'all get something that questions your precious religion of man is the problem, and boy the arrogant, snide little comments come out don't they? The point remains that Dyson, as well as many others say that alarmists like yourselves are the true danger behind the climate change scam.

It must really burn you all up that you can't get **** done the way you want to, because people have common sense, and recognize propaganda when they see it...lol

Tell you all what, if man is such the problem on this earth, then you should do your part, being that with every exhalation you exhale Co2 into the atmosphere, so just stop exhaling.....:mrgreen:
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boy what a snotty bunch you AGW cultists are...y'all get something that questions your precious religion of man is the problem, and boy the arrogant, snide little comments come out don't they? The point remains that Dyson, as well as many others say that alarmists like yourselves are the true danger behind the climate change scam.

It must really burn you all up that you can't get **** done the way you want to, because people have common sense, and recognize propaganda when they see it...lol

Tell you all what, if man is such the problem on this earth, then you should do your part, being that with every exhalation you exhale Co2 into the atmosphere, so just stop exhaling.....:mrgreen:

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Before discussing climate change, he told a roomful of people who probably want to put former President Ronald Reagan on Mount Rushmore that the Great Communicator blew a real chance to rid the world of nuclear weapons in 1986 because he was too attached to the "Star Wars" missile defense program.) As he said: "I know a lot about nuclear weapons and nothing about climate change."


----

So, J, I dismiss for reason and not arbitrarily. Can you actually read and listen?

Can you?

That was a Reagan quote. Not Dyson.

"As he said" Dyson was speaking of Regan's words.
 
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Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Who said I was going anywhere? Proving once again that you have a problem with comprehension.
 
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