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Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global [W:478]

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

You're hopeless on this Joe, So far gone that I can't even appeal to you on a man to man basis like I did above...So you believe what you want, but just know that nothing on this front is going to happen unless your side of the argument gets all authoritarian and forces it on people...In the long run that is a loser.

I answered you man to man. I didn't treat you any other way. But at the end of he day, the science is the science.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Believe it or not, most of us skeptics understand the sciences involved. That's why we are skeptics rather than true believers.

How about taking a part of one of those links, and explaining in your own words how it works.

I don't really believe that. I've seen the links that are false, the misrepresentations, the cherry picking. I believe many think they understand, but those things suggest strongly that they don't.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Again, that doesn't matter. Everyone knows that, but conclude that is enough to contribute to the increase. The flaw in thinking is with you.

OK, you know that water is 95% of the greenhouse gasses. Did you know that the forcing of water already absorbs most of the spectral bands that CO2 traps?

Did you know that the greenhouse effect is well over 320 W/m^2, and by the formula in TAR, is only 32.2 W/m^2 of it for CO2 at 400 ppm? Water vapor is about 260 W/m^2 at 2%, about 270 W/m^2 at 3%, and about 275 W/m^2 at 4%.

The IPCC gives net forcing changes for greenhouse gasses. At the 278 ppm (1750 level) it is already warming 30.26 W/m^2. The added 36% to 379 ppm (2005 level) takes it only another 5.5% in value to the 31.92 W/m^2.

31.92 - 30.26 = 1.66 forcing change from 1750 to 2005. The IPCC doesn't put into scale the total CO2 forcing they claim, because you would see how insignificant it is.

Then...

It is accepted that CO2 adds 3.7 Wm^2 for a doubling of CO2. This however is laboratory conditions where CO2 is the only gas in the test. The scale I used from the TAR calculation uses this 3.7 value (200 ppm = 28.49, 400 ppm = 32.20, 32.2 - 28.49 = 3.71) without accounting for the fact the H2O is already making most the spectra useless to CO2. They turn around and claim positive feedback, because they observe more warming than the spectra alone provides. this is where I say the indirect solar changes are being hidden. The IPCC doesn't outright lie. That's how they get past the pal review process. Nobody can be given a pass for an outright lie. If you read the IPCC material for solar, they only speak of "direct" solar changes. i ask you. Where do the "indirect" changes go?

Oh...

This positive feedback is supposedly more H2O from the CO2 warming. It appears by the way the math works, they are increasing the humidity by about 4% for every 1% of Co2 warming, to get such a high positive feedback.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

OK, you know that water is 95% of the greenhouse gasses. Did you know that the forcing of water already absorbs most of the spectral bands that CO2 traps?

Did you know that the greenhouse effect is well over 320 W/m^2, and by the formula in TAR, is only 32.2 W/m^2 of it for CO2 at 400 ppm? Water vapor is about 260 W/m^2 at 2%, about 270 W/m^2 at 3%, and about 275 W/m^2 at 4%.

The IPCC gives net forcing changes for greenhouse gasses. At the 278 ppm (1750 level) it is already warming 30.26 W/m^2. The added 36% to 379 ppm (2005 level) takes it only another 5.5% in value to the 31.92 W/m^2.

31.92 - 30.26 = 1.66 forcing change from 1750 to 2005. The IPCC doesn't put into scale the total CO2 forcing they claim, because you would see how insignificant it is.

Then...

It is accepted that CO2 adds 3.7 Wm^2 for a doubling of CO2. This however is laboratory conditions where CO2 is the only gas in the test. The scale I used from the TAR calculation uses this 3.7 value (200 ppm = 28.49, 400 ppm = 32.20, 32.2 - 28.49 = 3.71) without accounting for the fact the H2O is already making most the spectra useless to CO2. They turn around and claim positive feedback, because they observe more warming than the spectra alone provides. this is where I say the indirect solar changes are being hidden. The IPCC doesn't outright lie. That's how they get past the pal review process. Nobody can be given a pass for an outright lie. If you read the IPCC material for solar, they only speak of "direct" solar changes. i ask you. Where do the "indirect" changes go?

Oh...

This positive feedback is supposedly more H2O from the CO2 warming. It appears by the way the math works, they are increasing the humidity by about 4% for every 1% of Co2 warming, to get such a high positive feedback.

Again, nothing new. These have been thrown out before and rebutted. Not going to look it p again now, but your not convincing me throwing out old stuff. Everyone's seen it.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Again, nothing new. These have been thrown out before and rebutted. Not going to look it p again now, but your not convincing me throwing out old stuff. Everyone's seen it.


So, you don't deny the above math...
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

So, you don't deny the above math...

No, I said I wouldn't address it with a link tonight. I'll be off to bed soon. I also said, it isn't new. It's been dealt with before and didn't hold WATER. ;)
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

No, I said I wouldn't address it with a link tonight. I'll be off to bed soon. I also said, it isn't new. It's been dealt with before and didn't hold WATER. ;)

No sense in addressing it with a canned response.

That only proves you are a follower of the AGW dogma. We already know that.

Explain it in your own words, else don't waste out time please.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

No sense in addressing it with a canned response.

That only proves you are a follower of the AGW dogma. We already know that.

Explain it in your own words, else don't waste out time please.

Calling best evidence canned allows you to ignore it. I understand. But, that's the point of my claim, best evidence puts the silliness aside.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Calling best evidence canned allows you to ignore it. I understand. But, that's the point of my claim, best evidence puts the silliness aside.
Ok, then at least quote the part you want us to see instead of using information overload.

I don't think you will fond anything that will disagree with what I said. the 3.7 W/m^2 is an accepted value by both sides, under laboratory conditions. The TAR lists 3 different CO2 formulas, each yield very close values. The values for H2O are the elusive ones that are seldom expressed. I took those values out of a excel file I made years ago, and forget where I got the formula from.

As for calling it canned, we all know there are sites that links material for debate. This allows lemming to post as if they understand.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

For anyone interested, according to The Role of Ocean-Atmospheric Interactions in the CO2 Climate problem, CO2 has a direct surface effect of 1.2 W/m^2 rather than the 3.7 W/m^2 when accounting for the overlap with H2O, for a doubling of CO2. They go on to claim a total of 15.5 W/m^2 with the vapor feedback, and a 2.2 degree increase.

Note...

Their temperate increase for the doubling of CO2 without the feedback is 0.17 degrees...

No matter how much I look, it appears they model such formulas to explain a greater increase in solar energy than they want to account for. They never explain how they eliminated other possible influences properly.
 
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Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

No it shows it going up even further in 2004.

Your really misinterpreting what you're reading. It's not uncommon for the novice. It really isn't. I misread my car often. That's why I see a mechanic. There's no shame in it.



Do you know what the difference is between a proxy record and an instrumental record?
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

My assertion is there is a clear consensus, and there is.



Your assertion depends on the AGW Diehards being right in their hypotheses.

you don't seem to understand their hypotheses. How can you support their position?
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Yes, I know that. But that is irrelevant.

Let me ask you, what makes you smarter than those doing the work?



I don't claim to be smarter than anyone. Those doing the work did the work. Those forming the propaganda used their work to create a false impression.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

It's not. Me not being a scientist doesn't mean a scientist couldn't explain it better. To accept your view, I'd have to believe scientist don't practice science. That mechanics don't fix cars. Doctors don't work to heal the ill and injured. This is silly on its face. You would need their work, the actual work, with the scientists before us explaining tiptoe to know better. You can't really get that here. Most if this understand that, so we link their words.

Novice responders do what your doing, hanging on something you think is so brilliant no one has ever addressed it before, including those doing this work. Now, that's arrogance.

I've properly limited my claims within the scope of my knowledge ability. You have to explain why you believe that which next to no serious scientist believes. And why they are so much dimmer than you.



Using their hypotheses, they cannot form an accurate predictions and cannot explain why.

If these are the best in the world and they don't understand the work they claim to be expert in doing, they may be the best, but that best is ridiculously incompetent.

Can you produce one prediction from 30 years ago that is accurate?
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

There are very few scientific studies being done any more to prove global warming. It has been proven many times over that increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere create global warming. The majority of studies in this field are being done with respect to mitigating the effects of global warming, adapting to it, and improving predictions of how much it will warm or how much it will affect regional climate like extreme storm events, extreme drought, etc.

At this point questioning global warming is like questioning gravity. It is basic physics, quantum mechanics and the Earth’s energy balance: if CO2 goes up, global warming occurs.

Conspiracy Theories: A Scientist on Global Warming | The Morton Report

It's not hard to do.



You may have missed my meaning. I asked if you could link to even one source that says that AGW is a scientific theory.

You are not going to be able to do so because it does not satisfy even one of the criteria to be a Scientific Theory. That's why it's a sham.

However, if i was a scientist in this field and wanted to get the grant money, this is what I'd be trying to prove, also.

The FACT that they have not done so and have in truth failed miserably fools only those who don't have the eyes to see.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

I don't really believe that. I've seen the links that are false, the misrepresentations, the cherry picking. I believe many think they understand, but those things suggest strongly that they don't.



Wow! Do you cover your eyes and ears when reviewing the materials?
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Calling best evidence canned allows you to ignore it. I understand. But, that's the point of my claim, best evidence puts the silliness aside.




"He who knows not and knows not he knows not..."
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

It's not. Me not being a scientist doesn't mean a scientist couldn't explain it better. To accept your view, I'd have to believe scientist don't practice science. That mechanics don't fix cars. Doctors don't work to heal the ill and injured. This is silly on its face. You would need their work, the actual work, with the scientists before us explaining tiptoe to know better. You can't really get that here. Most if this understand that, so we link their words.

Novice responders do what your doing, hanging on something you think is so brilliant no one has ever addressed it before, including those doing this work. Now, that's arrogance.

I've properly limited my claims within the scope of my knowledge ability. You have to explain why you believe that which next to no serious scientist believes. And why they are so much dimmer than you.



Not all scientists know what they are doing. Same is true for the other people who ply their trades in the other fields you mention.

It sounds as if you don't understand this and don't want to know anymore about it than you do, but are absolutely certain that what you don't understand is correct while you have no interest in finding out any more about it.

You are in all respects a perfect proponent of AGW.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

In related news....

Not a single person showed up at the Georgetown waterfront Tuesday for a climate change agenda event put on by Organizing for Action, the shadowy nonprofit advocacy group born out of President Obama’s 2012 campaign, the NRCC wrote in its blog.

The event page for the “Climate Change Day of Action Rally” disappeared after rainy weather appeared to drive away whatever people planned to attend.

OFA Gets Zero Attendance for Climate Change Rally | Washington Free Beacon


:lamo: Now that is funny right there.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Not all scientists know what they are doing. Same is true for the other people who ply their trades in the other fields you mention.

It sounds as if you don't understand this and don't want to know anymore about it than you do, but are absolutely certain that what you don't understand is correct while you have no interest in finding out any more about it.

You are in all respects a perfect proponent of AGW.

We're not talking that every single scientist s perfect. We're looking at a solid majority, which includes the best and the brightest.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

We're not talking that every single scientist s perfect. We're looking at a solid majority, which includes the best and the brightest.
Science is not a democratic process. Maybe you will be capable of debating this issue when you learn that.
 
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Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Science is not s democratic process. maybe you will be capable of debating this issue when you learn that.

Never said it was. If it was, you could vote on it. You might try to understand what I am saying.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Never said it was. If it was, you could vote on it. You might try to understand what I am saying.

What about the times that a majority of people are wrong?
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

What about the times that a majority of people are wrong?

We're not talking people. We're talking experts in the field. Most mechanics agree when diagnosing a car. Most doctors understand what certain symptoms mean. Same here. It's not as nilly willy as you're pretending.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

What about the times that a majority of people are wrong?

When sufficient evidence arises to show that, the majority changes their mind. That's the great part about science, it can change as new information is discovered.

Let me know when it does.
 
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