Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global [W:478]

code1211 · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
Your question doesn't matter. What matters is how it works. If this was as flawed as you think, it would easily convince most scientist. It doesn't at all. So the flaw is likely in your understanding (this is why I included earlier the part about cherry picking parts for you).

You have this backwards. Climate has been changing since the Earth became a sphere. It always has changed and it seems pretty likely that it will continue to change. To doubt, all I need to do is not buy the misinformation. To believe, you should be able to explain what is happening.

The Climate is changing right now as it always has for natural reasons. There is absolutely no difference between the current change and previous changes. In the last 2000 years, the Globe has warmed by about 0.7 degrees. In the last 8000, the Globe has cooled by about 1.0 degrees.

In the last 10,000 years, the globe has warmed and cooled in a range of about 2 degrees and we are smack dab in the middle of that range right now.

It is the AGW Diehards who need to prove that there is something unusual happening and that it is caused by the activities of Man.

If you can prove that, then go ahead and do so. So far all you are saying is that you hear there might be a problem so we need to starve the planet's population.

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Boo Radley · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

code1211 said:
You have this backwards. Climate has been changing since the Earth became a sphere. It always has changed and it seems pretty likely that it will continue to change.

It is changing right now. There is absolutely no difference between the current change and previous changes. In the last 2000 years, the Globe has warmed by about 0.7 degrees. In the last 8000, the Globe has cooled by about 1.0 degrees.

In the last 11,000 years, the globe has warmed and cooled in a range of about 2 degrees and we are smack dab in the middle of that range right now.

It is the AGW Diehards who need to prove that there is something unusual happening and that it is caused by the activities of Man.

If you can prove that, then go ahead and do so. So far all you are saying is that you hear there might be a problem so we need to starve the planet's population.

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Again, no one says it hasn't. But your own chart shows that it's rising faster now. You miss the argument completely.

code1211 · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
Again, that doesn't matter. Everyone knows that, but conclude that is enough to contribute to the increase. The flaw in thinking is with you.

"Everyone"? Can you link to one source that says that the last 20 ppm increase in the concentration of CO2 has the same warming impact as the first 20 ppm?

Any source. No matter how biased the site. Just one that says that every incremental increase in CO2 has the exact same warming impact.

j-mac · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
For you j: (one more time)

The 32,000 “leading” scientists — 9,000 saying they have Ph.D.s — come from a petition by the George C. Marshall Institute, an outfit funded by hundreds of thousands of dollars from Exxon-Mobil that has helped create uncertainty over scientific consensus on global warming. The petition came with a cover letter by Frederick Seitz, a scientist who received much money from the R.J. Reynolds cigarette company and helped to create uncertainty over medical consensus on the harms of tobacco smoke.

(Snip)

So what do actual climatologists think?

Kelly Redmond, regional climatologist at Reno’s Desert Research Institute, told Fact Checker, “There seems little doubt that the earth as a whole is warming, based on separate evidence from the surface, the lower atmosphere and from satellites.”

Asked if the main causes are human-related, he said, “Without invoking human-related influences, we are at a loss for mechanisms that can account for the observed warming.”

He is far from alone. Not a single scientific organization of national or international standing denies that global warming is taking place.

Peter T. Doran and Maggie Kendall Zimmerman from the University of Illinois-Chicago surveyed more than 3,000 world scientists, with more than 90 percent having Ph.D.s.
They found that the vast majority of scientists said the earth is warming and human activity is a significant factor in global temperature changes. Among scientists specializing in and publishing peer-reviewed research in the field of climatology, the rate of consensus was about 97 percent for both questions.

(Snip)
In another instance that came out in court documents, a fossil-fuel-industry group called the Global Climate Coalition asked its scientists about global warming caused by human activity and they reported back, “The scientific basis … is well established and cannot be denied.”

Not only that, its scientists concluded that those who were skeptical of global warming “do not offer convincing arguments.”

Despite this internal document — similar to actions by the tobacco industry — the fossil fuel industry continued to sow confusion about climate change, until the coalition disbanded in 2002.

http://www.rgj.com/article/20101228...bal-warming-Look-past-Fox-News?nclick_check=1

Kevin Grandia: The 30,000 Global Warming Petition Is Easily-Debunked Propaganda

An open source opinion piece from the left leaning Gannet organization, and a HuffPo progressive cultist saying "nu uh"....That's your proof? And you have the gall to dismiss OpEd's from American Thinker? What a joke.

code1211 · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
It's not popularity. That would be if we polled you. Its scientist who do the science. Not popularity. This too is a flaw in your thinking.

Then why do they all say it's absolutely true and none of them will call it a Theory?

Boo Radley · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

code1211 said:
"Everyone"? Can you link to one source that says that the last 20 ppm increase in the concentration of CO2 has the same warming impact as the first 20 ppm?

Any source. No matter how biased the site. Just one that says that every incremental increase in CO2 khas the exact same warming impact.

Again, it's in all the literature:

The enhanced greenhouse effect
What has scientists concerned now is that over the past 250 years, humans have been artificially raising the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere at an ever-increasing rate, mostly by burning fossil fuels, but also from cutting down carbon-absorbing forests. Since the Industrial Revolution began in about 1750, carbon dioxide levels have increased nearly 38 percent as of 2009 and methane levels have increased 148 percent.

Global Warming : Feature Articles

The historical record shows that the climate system varies naturally over a wide range of time scales. In general, climate changes prior to the Industrial Revolution in the 1700s can be explained by natural causes, such as changes in solar energy, volcanic eruptions, and natural changes in greenhouse gas (GHG) concentrations. [1]

Recent climate changes, however, cannot be explained by natural causes alone. Research indicates that natural causes are very unlikely to explain most observed warming, especially warming since the mid-20th century. Rather, human activities can very likely explain most of that warming. [1]

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/causes.html

Boo Radley · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

code1211 said:
Then why do they all say it's absolutely true and none of them will call it a Theory?

Do we have to define theory again?

Boo Radley · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

j-mac said:
An open source opinion piece from the left leaning Gannet organization, and a HuffPo progressive cultist saying "nu uh"....That's your proof? And you have the gall to dismiss OpEd's from American Thinker? What a joke.

Oh he'll j, you can read it anywhere. It's been posted for years from multiple sources. It's such old information that it's shocking anyone's still posting it. For god's sake, do a little research on this silliness before swallowing it.

code1211 · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
Again, no one says it hasn't. But your own chart shows that it's rising faster now. You miss the argument completely.

These charts come from a Global Warming proponent site which is why I use this site. That said, they have attached to the end of a proxy record an instrumental record. This is disingenuous at the most charitable assessment. To get the accurate picture, you need to compare the proxy records and ignore the instrument record. It seems reasonable to assume that if the instrument record is that much higher than the proxies today, the instrument record would show the same bias if it was available in the past.

That said, comparing the proxy rise in temperature from 1600 to 1800 shows a very similar increase to the increase from 1800 to 2000.

Various of the proxies from the Holocene chart are off the grid compared to temperatures of today.

code1211 · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
Again, it's in all the literature:

The enhanced greenhouse effect
What has scientists concerned now is that over the past 250 years, humans have been artificially raising the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere at an ever-increasing rate, mostly by burning fossil fuels, but also from cutting down carbon-absorbing forests. Since the Industrial Revolution began in about 1750, carbon dioxide levels have increased nearly 38 percent as of 2009 and methane levels have increased 148 percent.

Global Warming : Feature Articles

The historical record shows that the climate system varies naturally over a wide range of time scales. In general, climate changes prior to the Industrial Revolution in the 1700s can be explained by natural causes, such as changes in solar energy, volcanic eruptions, and natural changes in greenhouse gas (GHG) concentrations. [1]

Recent climate changes, however, cannot be explained by natural causes alone. Research indicates that natural causes are very unlikely to explain most observed warming, especially warming since the mid-20th century. Rather, human activities can very likely explain most of that warming. [1]

Causes of Climate Change | Climate Change | US EPA

Not what I asked for. Looking for the scientific citation that the temperature impact from each incremental increase of CO2 is equal.

You rejected what Ms. Nova said in her paper and I'm demanding that you support your claim. You said "everybody" agrees with your assertion. It should be easy to find a link.

Boo Radley · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

code1211 said:
These charts come from a Global Warming proponent site which is why I use this site. That said, they have attached to the end of a proxy record an instrumental record. This is disingenuous at the most charitable assessment. To get the accurate picture, you need to compare the proxy records and ignore the instrument record. It seems reasonable to assume that if the instrument record is that much higher than the proxies today, the instrument record would show the same bias if it was available in the past.

That said, comparing the proxy rise in temperature from 1600 to 1800 shows a very similar increase to the increase from 1800 to 2000.

Various of the proxies from the Holocene chart are off the grid compared to temperatures of today.

No it shows it going up even further in 2004.

Your really misinterpreting what you're reading. It's not uncommon for the novice. It really isn't. I misread my car often. That's why I see a mechanic. There's no shame in it.

code1211 · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
Do we have to define theory again?

We already did this. AGW Science does not meet even one of the criteria that would make it into a Scientific Theory and there are several.

Do you find it odd that all of those scientists support this so strongly and yet none of them will call it a theory?

Boo Radley · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

code1211 said:
Not what I asked for. Looking for the scientific citation that the temperature impact from each incremental increase of CO2 is equal.

You rejected what Ms. Nova said in her paper and I'm demanding that you support your claim. You said "everybody" agrees with your assertion. It should be easy to find a link.

My assertion is there is a clear consensus, and there is.

Boo Radley · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

code1211 said:
We already did this. AGW Science does not meet even one of the criteria that would make it into a Scientific Theory and there are several.

Do you find it odd that all of those scientists support this so strongly and yet none of them will call it a theory?

According to you, a novice. Not according to the scientist, experts.

code1211 · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
No it shows it going up even further in 2004.

Your really misinterpreting what you're reading. It's not uncommon for the novice. It really isn't. I misread my car often. That's why I see a mechanic. There's no shame in it.

The record from the year zero forward is a proxy record. The end is a tacked on instruement record. You can't be this stupid.

The two measuring systems are not compatible. The proxies are the proxies and that is what we can use to compare. The is not an instrument record from 2000 years ago.

You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

code1211 · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
My assertion is there is a clear consensus, and there is.

Does it bother you that the consensus is based on something other than factual information and based on cloudy and uncertain terms?

code1211 · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
According to you, a novice. Not according to the scientist, experts.

Please post the link to the site that says that AGW Science is now elevated to a being a theory.

Boo Radley · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

code1211 said:
The record from the year zero forward is a proxy record. The end is a tacked on instruement record. You can't be this stupid.

The two measuring systems are not compatible. The proxies are the proxies and that is what we can use to compare. The is not an instrument record from 2000 years ago.

You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

Yes, I know that. But that is irrelevant.

Let me ask you, what makes you smarter than those doing the work?

j-mac · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
Oh he'll j, you can read it anywhere. It's been posted for years from multiple sources. It's such old information that it's shocking anyone's still posting it. For god's sake, do a little research on this silliness before swallowing it.

The science that the planet is going through changes is noted, and not really disputed by anyone, including myself....The argument you can't seem to grasp is that the political side of the argument that goes after the existence of man for the cause, the argument that the basis for our energy on this planet is the cause is bogus, and stems from radicals in the 60s that wrote garbage like 'the population bomb' and, others that believe that man is a virus on this earth but continue themselves to expell Co2 every miserable minute they are alive themselves.

It is a lie, pure and simple, and not even a good one when a truck driver, with a high school education can see right through it....You can type away all you want about how you think I am duped, how you think that I only look at sources that parrot my own beliefs, while you do the same thing in utter intellectual blindness, But what you fail to understand is that we are spending Billions with a 'B' on this Green crap, and NOTHING is even come close to being able to replace oil, natural gas, and coal as the energy engine of the world...

All of the crap that is going on right now is shell games with our money, paying off losers in their fields that want to be in on the bottom floor of the greatest scam ever to be attempted on the world, and you are buying it like a hungry fish with a hook just dangling right there for you to chomp down on.

I'd love it, and have said it many, many times how if there were cheap cleaner alternatives that could work on a scale to run this world I'd say go for it, for instance, if they could change the commercial transportation fleets over to natural gas instead of tinkering around with emissions crap in the engines that rob power from my rig, and therefore costs me money. But they won't do that, why? Ever ask yourself that?

Because it isn't about what they feed to you, in what they say it is...The cost of everything is rising, fuel, taxes, regulatory compliance costs, groceries, energy, food, hell, life in general. Was that your big fix? Because if so, I just want to tell you it sucks!

Boo Radley · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

code1211 said:
Does it bother you that the consensus is based on something other than factual information and based on cloudy and uncertain terms?

It's not. Me not being a scientist doesn't mean a scientist couldn't explain it better. To accept your view, I'd have to believe scientist don't practice science. That mechanics don't fix cars. Doctors don't work to heal the ill and injured. This is silly on its face. You would need their work, the actual work, with the scientists before us explaining tiptoe to know better. You can't really get that here. Most if this understand that, so we link their words.

Novice responders do what your doing, hanging on something you think is so brilliant no one has ever addressed it before, including those doing this work. Now, that's arrogance.

I've properly limited my claims within the scope of my knowledge ability. You have to explain why you believe that which next to no serious scientist believes. And why they are so much dimmer than you.

Boo Radley · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

code1211 said:
Please post the link to the site that says that AGW Science is now elevated to a being a theory.

There are very few scientific studies being done any more to prove global warming. It has been proven many times over that increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere create global warming. The majority of studies in this field are being done with respect to mitigating the effects of global warming, adapting to it, and improving predictions of how much it will warm or how much it will affect regional climate like extreme storm events, extreme drought, etc.

At this point questioning global warming is like questioning gravity. It is basic physics, quantum mechanics and the Earth’s energy balance: if CO2 goes up, global warming occurs.

Conspiracy Theories: A Scientist on Global Warming | The Morton Report

It's not hard to do.

Boo Radley · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

j-mac said:
The science that the planet is going through changes is noted, and not really disputed by anyone, including myself....The argument you can't seem to grasp is that the political side of the argument that goes after the existence of man for the cause, the argument that the basis for our energy on this planet is the cause is bogus, and stems from radicals in the 60s that wrote garbage like 'the population bomb' and, others that believe that man is a virus on this earth but continue themselves to expell Co2 every miserable minute they are alive themselves.

It is a lie, pure and simple, and not even a good one when a truck driver, with a high school education can see right through it....You can type away all you want about how you think I am duped, how you think that I only look at sources that parrot my own beliefs, while you do the same thing in utter intellectual blindness, But what you fail to understand is that we are spending Billions with a 'B' on this Green crap, and NOTHING is even come close to being able to replace oil, natural gas, and coal as the energy engine of the world...

All of the crap that is going on right now is shell games with our money, paying off losers in their fields that want to be in on the bottom floor of the greatest scam ever to be attempted on the world, and you are buying it like a hungry fish with a hook just dangling right there for you to chomp down on.

I'd love it, and have said it many, many times how if there were cheap cleaner alternatives that could work on a scale to run this world I'd say go for it, for instance, if they could change the commercial transportation fleets over to natural gas instead of tinkering around with emissions crap in the engines that rob power from my rig, and therefore costs me money. But they won't do that, why? Ever ask yourself that?

Because it isn't about what they feed to you, in what they say it is...The cost of everything is rising, fuel, taxes, regulatory compliance costs, groceries, energy, food, hell, life in general. Was that your big fix? Because if so, I just want to tell you it sucks!

You don't see through anything j. You just want to believe. You want to believe that list, even though it's false. You'll likely post it again. Along with other false information. I don't know why, but the is no scientific debate. Just he political one your side keeps making.

j-mac · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
You don't see through anything j. You just want to believe. You want to believe that list, even though it's false. You'll likely post it again. Along with other false information. I don't know why, but the is no scientific debate. Just he political one your side keeps making.

You're hopeless on this Joe, So far gone that I can't even appeal to you on a man to man basis like I did above...So you believe what you want, but just know that nothing on this front is going to happen unless your side of the argument gets all authoritarian and forces it on people...In the long run that is a loser.

Lord of Planar · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

code1211 said:
What is the canned response for this?

Maybe a can-can girl, to take your mind off the topic?

Lord of Planar · Aug 12, 2013

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
I've covered this before, and I really don't care to keep repeating links for you:

Causes of Climate Change | Climate Change | US EPA

What is the Greenhouse Effect? | Global Warming | LiveScience

The Greenhouse Effect
Greenhouse effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. (Over view link)

Believe it or not, most of us skeptics understand the sciences involved. That's why we are skeptics rather than true believers.

How about taking a part of one of those links, and explaining in your own words how it works.