Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global [W:478]

Verax said:

Climate change denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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j-mac said:

A dishonest gambit at best.

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Verax said:

Kind of funny. These points are so old and proven they are in textbooks, encyclopedias. Children are being taught these things as part of a basic rudimentary education. Yet we have "denialists" who won't even consider the possibility it could be true and immediately wave it off without a second thought.

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j-mac said:

Textbooks written by whom? Encyclopedias are not written in stone either....That children are being brainwashed by progressives in our schools is nothing new either...You need to learn the difference between Scientific law, and theory.

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code1211 said:

You may suspect them, but at least I make a statement and then produce the link to back that statement up. This is something I have yet to see you do. Why not pick out any of the predictions from any of the sources listed and then demonstrate that in truth that listed projection is not an accurate representation of what they actually predicted?

I am not pro pollution. In fact, just the opposite. Wherever possible, I conserve with the best of them for the reasons that are proven and can be demonstrated in the real world. It only makes sense to not crap where you eat.

However, ascribing to fantasies like AGW does nothing for the effort to conserve. Did you know that the Catalytic Converter converts more exhaust into CO2 than was emitted prior to the CC? CO2 is bad and will destroy the planet. Catalytic Converters are good and will save the planet. Catalytic Converters create more CO2. What's wrong with this picture? Why does the government mandate the use of the converters which increase CO2 and the government also demands the reduction of CO2?

The question of whether or not rising CO2 causes warming right now when it probably never has in the past few billion years around here is ludicrous and needs very specific and very definitive proof. In every example in the past, when the two are directly linked, CO2 rising has always been the effect of rising temperature, not the cause. There may have been three times in the geological record when it is likely that CO2 rose before Temperature rose, but, given the ongoing proven causality, those three or fewer examples may just have been a coincidence. In all cases, the CO2 reduced again fairly quickly and naturally.

Again, when the exceptions are this rare, ample proof is required to demonstrate the reverse causation.

I'm still waiting to see this presented. Whatcha got?

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j-mac said:

Um, that would be Merriam-Webster who's definition it is....Just so we are accurate....



You most certainly did, or accurately, "in the neighborhood of" meaning up to, and including....



True, but it looked foolish....Most people consider "several" to be 3 as a general meaning...but this illustrates perfectly how you try so hard to use semantics to cover yourself. It really is a silly game you play often.



Implying that you know that it was funny for you to say that so you expect to be mocked somewhat...But that aside, you really need to lighten up Joe, if the roles were reversed, as they have been in the past when I have said foolish things without thinking, you have no problem being "snarky" with me, so why should it be any different coming your way?

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j-mac said:

What is this? the "I know you are, but what am I?" gambit? No Joe, AGW/Climate change cultists like Al Gore politicized this from the jump. It is the only way you are going to force people to comply.

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code1211 said:

What are the parallels between the debate on Anthropogenic causation of Global Warming and the tobacco industry?

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Boo Radley said:

No, I said seven in a reply, but then when asked what I thought it meant I stated clearly. And as you agree as to what most people thinks it means, you're being a bit silly yourself.

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So, you're not doing anything in reverse. Sorry.

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Boo Radley said:

False science was thrown up by both, often paid for by companies with an interest in clouding the issue.

BTW, one of my links covered this. :coffeepap

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j-mac said:

So, Scientists arguing a skeptical view of the science so far as given by the AGW cultists are paid off shills of the Energy Cabal eh? and those arguing the case that you believe in are all just pure truth tellers eh? :roll:

You can be funny to read at times Joe.

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Boo Radley said:

There is no real skepticism. Really, there isn't. The scientific community isn't debating this anymore. Politically motivated people are, and not scientists.

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Earl M. Aagaard, PhD, Charles W. Aami, Roger L. Aamodt, PhD, Wilbur A. Aanes, M. Robert Aaron, Ralph F. Abate, Hamed K. Abbas, PhD, Wyatt E. Abbitt II, Bernaard J. Abbott, PhD, David J. Abbott, MD, David M. Abbott Jr., Donald W. Abbott, Douglas R. Abbott, Eugene Abbott, Frank D. Abbott, Paul Abbott, Ursula K. Abbott, PhD, Refaat A. Abdel-Malek, PhD, Albert S. Abdullah, DVM, Alan E. Abel, MD, Jason Abel, Janis I. Abele, Joseph M. Abell, Robert E. Abell, Gene H. Abels, MD, Philip H Abelson, PhD*, Wayne Aben, Jerrold Abernathy, Marshall W. Abernathy, Grady L. Ables, Earl Arthur Abrahamson, PhD, Alan V. Abrams, MD, Carl M. Abrams, Robert C. Abrams, Paul B. Abramson, PhD, Jose L. Abreu Jr., Joe L. Abriola Jr., B. Steven Absher, Sally Absher, Ahmed E. Aburahmah, PhD, Joseph P Accardo, Austin R. Ace, David A. Acerni, John W. Achee Sr., Billy R. Achmbaugh, Daniel T. Achord, PhD, Ernest R. Achterberg, Ava V Ackerman, DVM, Gene L. Ackerman, John R. Ackerman, William L. Ackerman, Richard E. Ackermann, Terry D. Ackman, Donald O. Acrey, Lee Actor, Humberto M. Acuna Jr., Robert K. Adair, PhD, William G. Adair Jr., Brian D. Adam, PhD, Chris Adam, Anthony F. Adamo, Albert H. Adams, MD, Ann S. Adams, Anthony W. Adams, MD, Audrey W Adams, Brook W. Adams, Bryan C. Adams, Bryant L Adams, PhD, Charles K. Adams, Daniel B Adams Jr., Daniel Otis Adams, PhD, Dell H. Adams, Donald Adams, Dwight L. Adams, MD, Eugene Adams, Gail D. Adams, PhD, George Baker Adams, PhD, George F. Adams, Gerald J. Adams, PhD, Gregory A Adams, Harold Elwood Adams, PhD, Henry J. Adams, Howard J. Adams, James D. Adams, James William Adams, Jim D. Adams, John Edgar Adams, PhD, John Adams, Kent A. Adams, Lee A Adams Jr., Leonard Caldwell Adams, PhD, Lewis R. Adams, Louis W. Adams, PhD, N. Adams, Neil Adams, PhD, Opal Adams, Phillip Adams, PhD, Richard Ernest Adams, Richard L. Adams, Richard W. Adams, MD, Roy Melville Adams, PhD, Roy B. Adams, Stanley D Adams, Steve W. Adams, Steven W. Adams, William W. 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Apland, David R. Appel, Kenneth P. Apperson, Norman Apperson, W. H. Appich Jr., Lynn Apple, Alan Appleby, PhD, Robert H. Appleby, Donald Applegate, DVM, James K. Applegate, PhD, Lowell N. Applegate, John K. Applegath, Herbert S Appleman, Douglas E. Applequist, PhD, Morris Herman Aprison, PhD, Charles Apter, PhD, Richard Apuzzo II, J. B. Aquilla, MD, Arturo Q. Arabe, PhD, Ara Arabyan, PhD, Steven B. Aragon, MD, Orlando A. Arana, Eric C. Araneta, Jonathan Arata, PhD, Howard Arbaugh, Anatoly L Arber, PhD, Harry D. Arber, R. Kent Arblaster, Jaime Arbona-Fazzi, PhD, Earl F. Arbuckle, John Arcadi, MD, Antonio E. Arce, Ed Arce, James R. Arce, Frank G Arcella, PhD, Byron J. Arceneaux, Leon M. Arceneaux, Webster J. Arceneaux Jr., John Arch, Diane M Archer, Donald Archer, William W. Archer, Patrick J. Archey, Philip Archibald, Robert L. Archibald, John L Archie, Angela N. Archon, William Bryant Ard, PhD, William Ard, Richard J. Ardine Arthur, Joe R. Arechavaleta, Christopher Arend, Robert W. 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Global Warming Petition Project

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The purpose of the Petition Project is to demonstrate that the claim of “settled science” and an overwhelming “consensus” in favor of the hypothesis of human-caused global warming and consequent climatological damage is wrong. No such consensus or settled science exists. As indicated by the petition text and signatory list, a very large number of American scientists reject this hypothesis.


Publicists at the United Nations, Mr. Al Gore, and their supporters frequently claim that only a few “skeptics” remain – skeptics who are still unconvinced about the existence of a catastrophic human-caused global warming emergency.


It is evident that 31,487 Americans with university degrees in science – including 9,029 PhDs, are not "a few." Moreover, from the clear and strong petition statement that they have signed, it is evident that these 31,487 American scientists are not “skeptics.”


These scientists are instead convinced that the human-caused global warming hypothesis is without scientific validity and that government action on the basis of this hypothesis would unnecessarily and counterproductively damage both human prosperity and the natural environment of the Earth.


Global Warming Petition Project

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National Academies of Science defines a scientific theory as

“a well-substantiated explanation of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses.”

Dr Richard Feynman, Cornell Physicist in a lecture explained how theorys that failed the test of data or experiment are falsified (“wrong”) and must be discarded.

Global Warming Theory Has Failed

(1) Warming not ‘global’. It is shown in satellite data to be northern hemisphere only

(2) It is now not warming. Warming (global mean and northern hemisphere) stopped in the 1990s

(3) Models suggest atmosphere should warm 20% faster than surface but surface warming was 33% faster during the time satellites and surface observations used. This suggests GHG theory wrong, and surface temperature contaminated.


(4) Temperatures longer term have been modified to enhance warming trend and minimize cyclical appearance. Station dropout, missing data, change of local siting, urbanization, instrumentation contaminate the record, producing exaggerating warming. The GAO scolded NOAA for poor compliance with siting standards.

(5) Those who create the temperature records have been shown in analysis and emails to take steps to eliminate inconvenient temperature trends like the Medieval Warm Period, the 1940s warm blip and cooling since 1998. Steps have included removal of the urban heat island adjustment and as Wigley suggested in a climategate email, introduce 0.15C of artificial cooling of global ocean temperatures near 1940.

(6) Forecast models have failed with temperature trends below even the assumed zero emission control scenarios

(7) Climate models all have a strong hot spot in the mid to high troposphere in the tropical regions. Weather balloons and satellite show no warming in this region the last 30 years.

(8) Ocean heat content was forecast to increase and was said to be the canary in the coal mine. It too has stalled according to NOAA PMEL. The warming was to be strongest in the tropics where the models were warming the atmosphere the most. No warming has been shown in the top 300 meters in the tropical Pacific back to the 1950s.

(9) Alarmists had predicted permanent El Nino but the last decade has featured 7 La Nina and just 3 El Nino years. This is related to the PDO and was predicted by those who look at natural factors.

(10) Alarmists had predicted much lower frequency of the negative modes of the AO and NAO due to warming. The trend has been the opposite with a record negative AO/NAO in 2009/10

(11) Alarmists predicted an increase in hurricane frequency and strength globally but the global activity had diminished after 2005 to a 30+ year low. The U.S. has gone seven consecutive years without a landfalling major hurricane, the longest stretch since the 1860s

(12) Alarmists have predicted a significant increase in heat records but despite heat last two summers, the 1930s to 1950s still greatly dominated the heat records. Even in Texas at the center of the 2011 heat wave, the long term (since 1895) trends in both temperature and precipitation are flat. And when stations with over 80 years of temperature data were considered, the number of heat records last July were not extraordinary relative to past hot summers.

(13) Extremes of rainfall and drought were predicted to increase but except during periods of strong El Nino and La Nina, no trends are seen

(14) Alarmists indicated winter would become warmer and short. The last 15 years has seen a decline in winter temperatures in all regions. In places winter have been the coldest and longest in decades and even centuries.

(15) Alarmists had indicated snow would become increasingly rare in middle latitudes especially in the big cities where warming would be greatest. All time snow records were set in virtually all the major cities and northern hemisphere snow coverage in winter has increased with 4 of the top 5 years since 2007/08. Also among the east coast high impact snowstorms tracked by NOAA (NESIS), 11 of the 46 have occurred since 2009.

(16) Alarmists had indicated a decline of Antarctic ice due to warming. The upward trends since 1979 continues.

(17) Alarmists had indicated Greenland and arctic ice melt would accelerate. The arctic ice tracks with the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation and the IARC shows the ice cover was similarly reduced in the 1950s when the Atlantic was last in a similar warm mode. In Greenland, the warmth of the 1930s and 1940s still dominates the records and longer term temperatures have declined.

(18) Sea level rise was to accelerate upward due to melting ice and warming. Sea levels actually slowed in the late 20th century and have declined or flattened the last few years. Manipulation of data (adjustment for land rises following the last glaciation) has been applied to hide this from the public.

(19) Alarmists claimed that drought western snowpack would diminish and forest fires would increase in summer. Snowpack and water equivalent were at or near record levels in recent winters from Alaska to the Pacific Northwest and Northern Rockies. Glaciers are advancing. Fires have declined.

(20) Alaska was said to be warming with retreating glaciers. But that warming is tied intimately to the PDO and thr North Pacific pattern NP and happens instantly with the flips from cold to warm and warm to cold. Two of the coldest and snowiest winters on records occurred since the PDO/NP flipped cold again (2007/08 and 2011/12). January 2012 was the coldest on record in many towns and cities and snowfall was running 160 inches above normal in parts of the south. Anchorage Alaska set an all time record for seasonal snow in 2011/12. In 2007/08, glaciers all advanced for the first time since the Little Ice Age. In 2011/12, the Bering Sea ice set a new high in the satellite era. Latest ever ice out date records were set in May 2013.

Global Warming theory has failed all tests, so alarmists return to the

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Verax said:

Climate change denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Boo Radley said:

Actually, your description of yourself is not accurate. each of your statements have met a rebuttal by someone. you've largely ignored the facts of the rebuttal and merely repeated the claim that has been rebutted, leaving no place to really go in the debate. If you had actually addressed each rebuttal, we could move forward. but you haven't.

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Boo Radley said:

False science was thrown up by both, often paid for by companies with an interest in clouding the issue.

BTW, one of my links covered this. :coffeepap

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Boo Radley said:

What is politicized is the denial effort. It's grounded in politics and not science. The science is just the science. Those not wanting to adhere to any consequences of the science prefer to muddy the water (remember the tobacco industry?).

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Boo Radley said:

You went kind of nuts since last I was on. You're sources, however, are seriously suspect. And you really don't dispute my claim. Understand, the area we can best effect is our role, so it makes sense to address it. And it is also true that there is really no draw back to the plant if we harm her less. The fact that you seem to be pro pollution is something I've always found odd. But the fact remains, those who know the field, those who study it, those who are best able to answer the question disagree with you. The best you can do is pull from outliners.

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Verax said:

Kind of funny. These points are so old and proven they are in textbooks, encyclopedias. Children are being taught these things as part of a basic rudimentary education. Yet we have "denialists" who won't even consider the possibility it could be true and immediately wave it off without a second thought.

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j-mac said:

Textbooks written by whom? Encyclopedias are not written in stone either....That children are being brainwashed by progressives in our schools is nothing new either...You need to learn the difference between Scientific law, and theory.

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code1211 said:

There's a pretty dramatic difference between scientific theory and AGW notions.

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Manc Skipper said:

No major scientific body in the world disagrees with the premise of AGW. Your antiscience paranoia is a regrettable side effect of your politics.

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j-mac said:

Sometimes I get the distinct impression that I am living in Blotto World where white is black, up is down, etc....I mean even the middle school science student knows that things like the "Law of Gravity" is not the same as discussing the "Theory of Climate change".....Gravity is a fact, and readily provable by even a lay person. Whereas, this scam of AGW is a global redistribution scheme where the countries like the US will be subjected to sovereignty stripping regulation, and wealth redistribution, while others like China will be allowed to continue building, and putting online a coal burning power plant each week. It's all so dumb, and simplistically transparent that those now espousing, and furthering the talking points of the cult's high priests, are beginning to look extremely easily duped.

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