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Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global [W:478]

Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

j-mac said:
Wow, project much? I asked you before to show me how the conditions of GW could be replicated in scientific surroundings by various scientists....You ignored that completely. Because it can't, and we have proof of the GW religion supporters skewing information to fit their conclusions. This isn't science, it is a rouse. A scam. And you buy into it hook, line, and sinker.
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You assume your question applies. It really doesn't. Computer models show us some things, but like any evidence gathering effort, we can measure cause and effect. No one suggests there is only one cause, but we can see clear evidence of an increase and speeding up of warming beginning during the industrial age. We have more than one measure. Evidence is listed and explained in by many, which is why there is a consensus.

BTW, I answered you in the context to that which you replied to. I always assume when you enter a discussion, you're continuing with what was said by all. Make clear when your not, and I'll answer you more direct.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
Fall back? I've given you a lot of evidence. I don't think you're interested in the science. There is plenty of evidence. You merely have to open your eyes.
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You have presented evidence of warming. You have presented evidence of anthropogenic causes. What is missing from your evidence is the proof that the anthropogenic causes are causing the warming.

If you can create that link, then perhaps AGW Science will start to work. Doubtful since it is based on a misconception, but it's possible.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Deuce said:
The part you are missing, which I have explained repeatedly, is that there are other variables involved in climate.
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And the part that you refuse to answer in this little repeated conversation is the part where you are required to show exactly the contribution to warming by the Anthropogenic forcings and exactly the warming that comes from the other factors.

Here's your list to work with:

http://c3headlines.typepad.com/.a/6a010536b58035970c0120a5c9415b970b-pi


I know, I know. You'll say that there is no way to attribute this and I will say then it's not science it's merely a notion and then you will feel like you won when you have once again shown nothing and once again presented no proof of anything.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
You assume your question applies. It really doesn't. Computer models show us some things, but like any evidence gathering effort, we can measure cause and effect. No one suggests there is only one cause, but we can see clear evidence of an increase and speeding up of warming beginning during the industrial age. We have more than one measure. Evidence is listed and explained in by many, which is why there is a consensus.

BTW, I answered you in the context to that which you replied to. I always assume when you enter a discussion, you're continuing with what was said by all. Make clear when your not, and I'll answer you more direct.
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This attachment shows various proxies. The proxies show a pretty clear increase of temperature from 1600 to 1800. They show a pretty clear increase in temperature from 1800 to 2000.

At the end of the record, the instrument record is tacked onto the proxies and that is a sham. The proxies start to curl down again as the instrument record rises. According to the proxies, the increase in temperature from 1600 to 1800, the 200 years before Industrial Revolution, was about equal to the 200 years following the increase in CO2 from the Industrial Revolution.

This undermines your premise completely.

At this time and since about the year 2000 the temperature has at least plateaued and may be dropping.

View attachment 67151175
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

code1211 said:
You have presented evidence of warming. You have presented evidence of anthropogenic causes. What is missing from your evidence is the proof that the anthropogenic causes are causing the warming.

If you can create that link, then perhaps AGW Science will start to work. Doubtful since it is based on a misconception, but it's possible.
Click to expand...

Then you haven't read it all.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

code1211 said:
This attachment shows various proxies. The proxies show a pretty clear increase of temperature from 1600 to 1800. They show a pretty clear increase in temperature from 1800 to 2000.

At the end of the record, the instrument record is tacked onto the proxies and that is a sham. The proxies start to curl down again as the instrument record rises. According to the proxies, the increase in temperature from 1600 to 1800, the 200 years before Industrial Revolution, was about equal to the 200 years following the increase in CO2 from the Industrial Revolution.

This undermines your premise completely.

At this time and since about the year 2000 the temperature has at least plateaued and may be dropping.

View attachment 67151175
Click to expand...

Not sure you know how to read your own chart. It supports me more than anything else. Again, review the ice core samples.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

code1211 said:
This attachment shows various proxies. The proxies show a pretty clear increase of temperature from 1600 to 1800. They show a pretty clear increase in temperature from 1800 to 2000.

At the end of the record, the instrument record is tacked onto the proxies and that is a sham. The proxies start to curl down again as the instrument record rises. According to the proxies, the increase in temperature from 1600 to 1800, the 200 years before Industrial Revolution, was about equal to the 200 years following the increase in CO2 from the Industrial Revolution.

This undermines your premise completely.

At this time and since about the year 2000 the temperature has at least plateaued and may be dropping.

View attachment 67151175
Click to expand...

Which do you think is wrong: the instrumental record or the temperature proxies?

The temperature has not been dropping in any statistically meaningful fashion.

Also, the instrumental record does curl down in the same place the proxies do. It isn't totally obvious looking at a chart on that scale, but most of the temperature proxies actually end in 1950.
 
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Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
You assume your question applies.
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Believe or not Joe, I really don't assume anything....That would be you providing the assumption of others...

Computer models show us some things, but like any evidence gathering effort, we can measure cause and effect.
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Computer models can be wrong. Ever heard the phrase 'garbage in, garbage out'? We can see often with say weather forecasting on things like hurricanes, that computer models are really nothing more than a guess. And, if the information is manipulated before it is entered to fit the conclusion then of course it is going to lead you there.

No one suggests there is only one cause...
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Simply not true. The suggestion has been nearly exclusive from the followers of the GW religion that man is the cause.

...but we can see clear evidence of an increase and speeding up of warming beginning during the industrial age.
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No you really don't...What you do have is a scientific question, warped, and twisted by political concerns into a conclusion chased by skewed data. What is your control planet? Without that, your so called evidence is ****.

We have more than one measure.
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Tell enough lies, and you think it becomes fact? Again, what is your control planet? I am less concerned with manipulated data sets to fit narratives, than I am with the agenda of control people like you try to further with them.

Evidence is listed and explained in by many, which is why there is a consensus.
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In science matters of theory are never settled. You are making the political mistake of thinking that because you have a few voices that are in the tank for the progressive agenda of AGW being used for political control, and global fiat currency, that closes the argument, but in real science, the argument is never, and should never be closed.

BTW, I answered you in the context to that which you replied to. I always assume when you enter a discussion, you're continuing with what was said by all. Make clear when your not, and I'll answer you more direct.
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I'd settle to just get some honesty out of you Joe. :peace:
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

j-mac said:
Believe or not Joe, I really don't assume anything....That would be you providing the assumption of others...



Computer models can be wrong. Ever heard the phrase 'garbage in, garbage out'? We can see often with say weather forecasting on things like hurricanes, that computer models are really nothing more than a guess. And, if the information is manipulated before it is entered to fit the conclusion then of course it is going to lead you there.



Simply not true. The suggestion has been nearly exclusive from the followers of the GW religion that man is the cause.



No you really don't...What you do have is a scientific question, warped, and twisted by political concerns into a conclusion chased by skewed data. What is your control planet? Without that, your so called evidence is ****.



Tell enough lies, and you think it becomes fact? Again, what is your control planet? I am less concerned with manipulated data sets to fit narratives, than I am with the agenda of control people like you try to further with them.



In science matters of theory are never settled. You are making the political mistake of thinking that because you have a few voices that are in the tank for the progressive agenda of AGW being used for political control, and global fiat currency, that closes the argument, but in real science, the argument is never, and should never be closed.



I'd settle to just get some honesty out of you Joe. :peace:
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Jim always honest with j, but you have trouble seeing the point made.

As for the rest, anything can be wrong. True. But, the evidence is beyond computer models and as one article I linked noted, there is an entire house of bricks you have to contend with. The tactic but those who are deniers is to pick one brick and even through they read the brick Inaccurately, pound it to death. There is a reason that there is such a large consensus and acceptance of this. And as non-scientists, it's rather arrogant to assume you know better.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
Jim always honest with j, but you have trouble seeing the point made.

As for the rest, anything can be wrong. True. But, the evidence is beyond computer models and as one article I linked noted, there is an entire house of bricks you have to contend with. The tactic but those who are deniers is to pick one brick and even through they read the brick Inaccurately, pound it to death. There is a reason that there is such a large consensus and acceptance of this. And as non-scientists, it's rather arrogant to assume you know better.
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The second you start throwing out terms like "deniers" to describe those that don't agree with your rhetoric, you show yourself to not be an honest broker in the argument....I'll leave it at that.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

j-mac said:
The second you start throwing out terms like "deniers" to describe those that don't agree with your rhetoric, you show yourself to not be an honest broker in the argument....I'll leave it at that.
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True, but I'm only responding in kind. And that has nothing to do with honesty (really, words have definitions). You should read what you write sometime. But when you base an argument on belief, and not the prevailing science, you have to expect some criticism.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
Then you haven't read it all.
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Please cut and paste the silver bullet to which you refer.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Boo Radley said:
Not sure you know how to read your own chart. It supports me more than anything else. Again, review the ice core samples.
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They have, as i said, tacked the instrument record on the end of the Proxies. This is like throwing a thoroughbred horse into the 1500 meters in the Olympics. They just don't jive.

To compare apples to apples, ignore the instrument record and look at the proxies. If there were instruments to read in the past, the departure probably would have been as great.

Cut and paste the silver bullet that you are trying to reference from the ice Cores.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Deuce said:
Which do you think is wrong: the instrumental record or the temperature proxies?

The temperature has not been dropping in any statistically meaningful fashion.

Also, the instrumental record does curl down in the same place the proxies do. It isn't totally obvious looking at a chart on that scale, but most of the temperature proxies actually end in 1950.
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The proxies are the proxies and the instruments are the instruments. Both are simply what they are.

Niether, however, is the same as the other.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

...goes outside, looks up, notices the sky is STILL not falling, turns around and goes back inside. Nothing to see here, as usual, move along.......

FWIW, we had the coolest June on record this year in my area. on track to have the coolest July on record.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Too be honest I'm past caring about and still don't really understand why the anti-global warming crowd get out of this argument. What do we have to lose by making our planet cleaner and stopping our reliance on fossil fuels ( which will run out anyway)???
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Higgins86 said:
Too be honest I'm past caring about and still don't really understand why the anti-global warming crowd get out of this argument. What do we have to lose by making our planet cleaner and stopping our reliance on fossil fuels ( which will run out anyway)???
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the problem is "how" the AGWers want to go about it. I lost all faith in them when they came out with the carbon credits scam.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

OscarB63 said:
the problem is "how" the AGWers want to go about it. I lost all faith in them when they came out with the carbon credits scam.
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how would you do it then?
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Higgins86 said:
how would you do it then?
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More to the point, what are YOU personally doing about it? Not trying to single you out, it's just that there are an awful lot of people screaming about something being done while they do nothing.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

code1211 said:
Please cut and paste the silver bullet to which you refer.
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No silver bullet. Read them all.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

tech30528 said:
More to the point, what are YOU personally doing about it? Not trying to single you out, it's just that there are an awful lot of people screaming about something being done while they do nothing.
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I use energy saving lightbulbs, I have a compost heap, ride my bike/ take train to work, I drive a small economical car. Just to name a few.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Higgins86 said:
Too be honest I'm past caring...
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I think at this point everyone is.....

and still don't really understand why the anti-global warming crowd get out of this argument.
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What we get? How about not ceding our freedom to those control freaks that would use this faux crisis to redistribute wealth, and control the masses?

What do we have to lose by making our planet cleaner and stopping our reliance on fossil fuels ( which will run out anyway)???
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I don't think that we are saying not to continue to make that which we use cleaner, this is a false argument, like when Obama says we want "dirtier air, and dirtier water..." It's pejorative, and wrong to categorize, and lie about your opponents like that.

And then, as if it wasn't bad enough that you misrepresent the opposing argument as you did, then you right on cue throw out the long debunked 'peak oil' myth as if it is fact....

Just know this, your progressive policy of choking this country off oil before you have the technology to replace that energy source is strangling this country, and hurting the people that your portend to want to help, and represent the most, the poor, and middle classes....So, good job.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Higgins86 said:
I use energy saving lightbulbs...
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Good for you...They are mandated by law so you don't have a choice do you?

I have a compost heap...
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Many people live in apartments and such that don't have that option...

ride my bike...
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Fantastic...You young ones should stay healthy...I guess if you are unable to ride a bicycle then you're screwed eh?

take train to work..
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What if there is no train service where you are? Not everyone lives in urban settings, and close to where they work?

I drive a small economical car.
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So? Different people have different needs...If you are single, and have no need in most cases for an automobile, (as you already said you use your bike, and mass transit) then I would agree that it makes no sense for you to own a $30K to $40K car or truck....But that is YOUR choice isn't it? See that's the problem with freedom in your eyes isn't it? That you don't get to dictate what I should own right?

Just to name a few.
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Do you think you are better than other people you see in the world based on what you see without knowing their circumstances? Because you know what that is right, and why it is a major fail?
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

j-mac said:
Good for you...They are mandated by law so you don't have a choice do you?



Many people live in apartments and such that don't have that option...



Fantastic...You young ones should stay healthy...I guess if you are unable to ride a bicycle then you're screwed eh?



What if there is no train service where you are? Not everyone lives in urban settings, and close to where they work?



So? Different people have different needs...If you are single, and have no need in most cases for an automobile, (as you already said you use your bike, and mass transit) then I would agree that it makes no sense for you to own a $30K to $40K car or truck....But that is YOUR choice isn't it? See that's the problem with freedom in your eyes isn't it? That you don't get to dictate what I should own right?



Do you think you are better than other people you see in the world based on what you see without knowing their circumstances? Because you know what that is right, and why it is a major fail?
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I don't think i'm better than anyone just more considerate. If everyone made a couple of small changes to their lives it could be a much better planet that we leave our kids.
 
Re: Report shows UN admitting solar activity may play significant role in global warm

Higgins86 said:
I don't think i'm better than anyone just more considerate. If everyone made a couple of small changes to their lives it could be a much better planet that we leave our kids.
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Ok, do you think that doing away with the energy sources that are proven now, and in use, for nothing that seems to be working now is prudent? Or would make life better?

It is one thing to work toward energy that is cleaner, or more renewable etc....But to just say that we need to do that, and then do things that rise costs, make current energy less accessible, and have nothing that will replace what you are putting off limits, hurts people that can least afford it, and ends up tanking economies....
 
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