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Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years[W: 395]

Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Tucker Case said:
Pointing ut the reality of the situation =/= demonizing. The facts are the facts. There's no emotional connection to them. Money hoarding damages the economy because it removes money from circulation.

That's not a value statement, it's a factual one. I'm not discussing increased profits and wages for the highest earners, I'm discussing that coupled with a lack of increases, and even decreases, at the "ground" level. That combination is the formula which hurts the economy, as that combination is what constitutes money hoarding among the few.
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They aren't obligated to take stupid risks

It's Government Spending that is hurting the Economy. Not savings.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Tucker Case;1061407961]I assume you already understand how and why it's a problem since you oppose tax increases for the same people I'm discussing.
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I oppose all tax increases until the size of the govt is shrunk to the level I have proposed and see no benefit in taking money from the consumer to give to the bloated bureaucrats who waste it and spend it in the name of compassion never generating compassionate results.


Well done. You certainly took advantage of the fewer opportunities that you would have had in that situation as compared to, say, someone who grew up in upper middle or upper class who would need to put in a third of the effort as someone from the lower class would have to to achieve the same level of success.
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I strongly believe you make your own opportunities and will never do it by whining about corporate profits, what someone else makes or pays in taxes, or being jealous of what someone else has.


Pointing ut the reality of the situation =/= demonizing. The facts are the facts. There's no emotional connection to them. Money hoarding damages the economy because it removes money from circulation.
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Until you put it in perspective and define the effects on the economy and others that is whining IMO. Unless someone puts that money in the ground in their backyard regardless of where it goes it helps someone.

That's not a value statement, it's a factual one. I'm not discussing increased profits and wages for the highest earners, I'm discussing that coupled with a lack of increases, and even decreases, at the "ground" level. That combination is the formula which hurts the economy, as that combination is what constitutes money hoarding among the few.
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I find it quite interesting that many here who have never invested a dime of their own money in a business, had to meet the demands of the Federal, state, and local governments, met a monthly payroll are such experts on the personal finances of others and what is a liveable wage. Amazing what a little initiative and drive can do to ones personal income. Rather than blaming someone else for their own plight in life do something about it, take the education you received from school and the company you work for and put it to better more profitable use.

This govt. we have today is going to penalize individual wealth creation and demonize private business so good luck doing that.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Fisher said:
It would be great to have more proactive state governments but it is a chicken-egg argument as to why we do not at this point in time.
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Thank the Lord I live in TX, best move of my life in 1992
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Conservative said:
Your opinion noted, but obviously you have no understanding of our free market economy and the components of tha teconomy

In this country there are 23 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers and that is the new normal here.

Name for me one successful socialist country with low unemployment, high economic growth, and no debt?

Doubt seriously that you have any clue as to how a private sector economy works or really what is going on with yours.
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Pelosi says this is what a recovery looks like.....LOL LOL LOL...
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Bronson said:
They aren't obligated to take stupid risks
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Of course not. But nobody has tried to imply that they are.

It's Government Spending that is hurting the Economy. Not savings.
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I don't believe anyone has mentioned savings until you did. I know I didn't.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Conservative said:
Thank the Lord I live in TX, best move of my life in 1992
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Isn't Texas great. Born and raised in this great State.

If a shrinking economy is a "recovery" then what do we call whats happening in Texas right now ?

Improvment minus the liberal lies.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Conservative said:
Sorry, but in a 15 trillion dollar economy I don't see money hoarding by anyone in the top 1% a serious problem if such hoarding exists. All I do see are millions of Americans buying the big govt. philosophy and attacks on individual wealth creation. That really is nothing more than a diversion away from accepting personal responsibility for one's own poor choices.

Unlike many here I understand that raising taxes affects economic growth and that a negative growth impacts not only personal income but also govt. revenue and that adds to the deficit that 51% of the income tax paying income earners are funding.

Until the people of this country demand that the Federal Govt. stop spending 3.8 trillion dollars a year, puts some fiscal responsibility back into our economy and forces people to accept personal responsibility for their poor choices this country is headed into a death spiral. By they way the last Reagan budget was 1 trillion dollars. Now inflation didn't increase that four times, Obamabots helped in that process.

I have been told in this forum that I really am not that smart so that being the case if I can be successful and I was, then all those other brilliant people here whining about how much someone else makes or pays in taxes and how evil corporations are shouldn't have any problem doing better than I did.
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and thus shows your lack of basic understanding of economics.....tucker explained things very well to you, yet you fail to comprehend.....bully for you, you say you did well for yourself, congrats, but it holds no bearing on the conversation.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Tucker Case said:
Of course not. But nobody has tried to imply that they are.

I don't believe anyone has mentioned savings until you did. I know I didn't.
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Oh I'm sorry, you called it "money hoarding"

My bad :lol:

randel said:
and thus shows your lack of basic understanding of economics.....tucker explained things very well to you, yet you fail to comprehend.....bully for you, you say you did well for yourself, congrats, but it holds no bearing on the conversation.
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Tucker hasn't explained anything actually
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Fenton said:
Isn't Texas great. Born and raised in this great State.

If a shrinking economy is a “recovery" then what do we call whats happening in Texas right now ?
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An oil & gas economy, which is inherently counter-cyclical.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Conservative said:
I oppose all tax increases until the size of the govt is shrunk to the level I have proposed and see no benefit in taking money from the consumer to give to the bloated bureaucrats who waste it and spend it in the name of compassion never generating compassionate results.
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So if they cut spending, you'd support tax increases?

I strongly believe you make your own opportunities....
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That's just not true, though. Wealthy people are granted many opportunities that others have to struggle to even have a chance to receive. A kid who comes from a family with an income of $1,000,000 per year will not have to work as hard as a kid from a family that earns $40,000 annually. That's just reality in a world where things need to be paid for.



Until you put it in perspective and define the effects on the economy and others that is whining IMO.
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I guess if you abuse the English language with blatant disregard like that it's "whining".

Unless someone puts that money in the ground in their backyard regardless of where it goes it helps someone.
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What if it's invested in a Chinese company? Does that help the US economy? What if it is put a Swiss Bank account (the financial equivilant of burying it in your backyard)?




I find it quite interesting that many here who have never invested a dime of their own money in a business
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What are you talking about? I ran a construction business for years. Did you make something up in your head and convince yourself it was true?
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Bronson said:
Oh I'm sorry, you called it "money hoarding"
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I called something that wasn't "saving" money hoarding. When you make **** up and try to argue against teh imaginary thing that you made up, you only make the world around you a dumber place to be.


Tucker hasn't explained anything actually
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Correction: you haven't understood that which was explained. Probably because you have an imaginary idea of what I am saying which bears no resemblance whatsoever to that which I have been saying.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

randel said:
and thus shows your lack of basic understanding of economics.....tucker explained things very well to you, yet you fail to comprehend.....bully for you, you say you did well for yourself, congrats, but it holds no bearing on the conversation.
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So the massive Govt defecit spending along with a drop in GDP is a good thing ?

Can someone who understands "ECONOMICS" please explain "ECONOMICS" to me that would make sense of the ECONOMIC principles that justify a shrinking economy in response to a massive expanding debt ?
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Fenton said:
Improvment minus the liberal lies.
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I disagree. Saying the liberals are lying is giving them too much credit for knowing their heads from their asses and that they could actually see reality enough to lie about it.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Bronson said:
Oh I'm sorry, you called it "money hoarding"

My bad :lol:



Tucker hasn't explained anything actually
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perhaps you should read his posts again...
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

I just started a thread on the same subject ... can someone tell me how to delete my thread?
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Tucker Case said:
What you see is irrelevant to the issue. Money hoarding has a negative impact on the economy.
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No, money hoarding is a real behavior, it's like the hoarders you see on the reality shows, it's a mental switch that gets flipped and their life spins out of control as they continue to focus almost exclusively on adding to their savings.

This is not what occurs when you're referring to the overall economy or "most businesses and the top 1%". What they are doing, is emotionally, rationally, *no different than most anyone else is doing in similar economic cirucmstances*. They are not some special strain of the human genome that wants to suck the earth dry, it's people you know and love and who for better or worse, happen to earn a lot more than most (typically through professions like doctor, laywer, investment, business owners, etc.). If you're still in denial, reverse it to those in opposite circumstances. Why don't the unemployed bulid infrastructure free of charge while they are in between jobs so that they can continue adding to our economy during the downtime? Besides, it would keep their minds occupied off the stress of finding a new job, and they might meet some people, network, it would look good on a resume, etc., etc.

My armchair recollection of this in terms of economics, I thought GOVERNMENT was supposed to save during the good times or at least artificially tighten, that way if the economy slows down, they can rachet up spending and loosen up the belt that they had tightened during the boom (think interest rates and more). Why didn't they do that? So the top earners have to live the way you want them to, because Bush when crazy with the checkbook (For example)?
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Dwight said:
An oil & gas economy, which is inherently counter-cyclical.
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LOL. !!!

So its a bad thing that our local economy is growing ¿

That we are supplying jobs for people that ran for their lives from the liberal blue plague states.

But wait....its "counter cyclical" ....

Hillarious.....I'm still "all a chuckle" over your pathetic attempt to undermine our local burgeoning economy.

We're far better off and will continue to be when this number is revised down even more.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Tucker Case said:
Conservative said:
I strongly believe you make your own opportunities....
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That's just not true, though. Wealthy people are granted many opportunities that others have to struggle to even have a chance to receive. A kid who comes from a family with an income of $1,000,000 per year will not have to work as hard as a kid from a family that earns $40,000 annually. That's just reality in a world where things need to be paid for.
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This is why I put Conservative on Ignore. It is not a matter of “stupid”, it is that he fervently “strongly believe(s)” things in the face of contradictory evidence. That in the US today roughly 1/2 of the determination of your economic status is via whose loins you happened to pop out of, rather than the meritocracy that it is imagined as. This was not always the case but that is where we have found ourselves, and the worse for it ultimately.

As we rate to some other 1st world democracies.

In short, he is fully insistent on NOT acquiring information, not learning, but rather blathering the same discredited crap over and over and over and over and over and over and… :(
 
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Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Juiposa said:
Cutting spending OR raising taxes will cause recession, especially with the $1 trillion you guys need to balance. A minor recession is enevitable when balancing a deficit so large.
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Define "minor".


Anyone worth their salt saw this coming. Austerity=recession. Maybe somebody in politics might listen this time...nah, probably. not.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Fenton said:
LOL. !!!

So its a bad thing that our local economy is growing ¿
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Exactly how do you get that?
That we are supplying jobs for people that ran for their lives from the liberal blue plague states.
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The “plague” states that on the whole provide the meat of the government funding?
But wait….its "counter cyclical" ....
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Yes. Look it up. Maybe you won’t embarrass yourself so much next time…
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Tucker Case said:
So if they cut spending, you'd support tax increases?



That's just not true, though. Wealthy people are granted many opportunities that others have to struggle to even have a chance to receive. A kid who comes from a family with an income of $1,000,000 per year will not have to work as hard as a kid from a family that earns $40,000 annually. That's just reality in a world where things need to be paid for.





I guess if you abuse the English language with blatant disregard like that it's "whining".



What if it's invested in a Chinese company? Does that help the US economy? What if it is put a Swiss Bank account (the financial equivilant of burying it in your backyard)?






What are you talking about? I ran a construction business for years. Did you make something up in your head and convince yourself it was true?
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Describe your "perfect" world in which nothing has to be paid for. Who would "choose" to work if nothing has to be paid for? We would likely all seek to increase our knowledge, travel around the nation and enjoy the freedom of not having to bore ourselves with actually working. ;)
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Tucker Case said:
I called something that wasn't "saving" money hoarding. When you make **** up and try to argue against teh imaginary thing that you made up, you only make the world around you a dumber place to be.
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You're the one making **** up with catchphrases like "Money Hoarding"

Correction: you haven't understood that which was explained. Probably because you have an imaginary idea of what I am saying which bears no resemblance whatsoever to that which I have been saying.
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/yawn

It's the same thing with you people every time. When people don't buy into your nonsense you try and belittle them and call them stupid. Let's look at some of your pearls of wisdom in this thread shall we?

A 40% reduction in defense spending will have some short-term economic consequences. Any cuts in spending would have this kind of consequence as less money being put into the economy will obviously affect the economy.
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Except there was no reduction in Government Spending last quarter

http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/mts.pdf

To explain: $10,000,000 given to one person probably will not get spent within a year or even 10, but $10,000,000 given to 10,000,000 people will probably get spent dozens of times over in a year. In the first scenario, the 10 mil is effectively out of the economy. It's not being used to purchase goods or services. In the latter scenario, that money is continually being used to purchase goods and services though. It's transferring hands over and over again. It benefits many more people.
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The problem with this scenario is that the 10K isn't "given" to one person, unless we're talking about Government Spending/Welfare/Stimulus. As we saw with Obama's Failed Stimulus, there was no fiscal multiplier, hence a more proper way to characterize the money "given" would be to call it waste. Wealth that will never be recovered.

Your analogy has absolutely NOTHING to do with business assets, production, capital goods, Hiring, ect.

They might as well for all the value it brings to the US economy if they hoard it. A common location for some of that money are foreign investments and foreign banks.
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Do you have any idea how much debt most companies have incurred over the last 4 years? Even if this were true, why do you think they are putting money in foreign banks? Are you advocating offshore banking be made illegal?

You're proving my point here. Wages and benefits paid to the workers do this. I.E. money distributed to many people who will then SPEND that money.

Thus, wage freezes hurt the economy, especially when they are done in conjunction with increased profits which are hoarded among the few who already have plenty and thus, do NOT spend that money.
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Do businesses hire people to pay wages or make money? Are you advocating businesses be forced to hire people and pay people more, regardless of economic conditions?
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Dwight said:
That in the US today roughly 1/2 of the determination of your economic status is via whose loins you happened to pop out of, rather than the meritocracy that is imagined as. :(
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And what about the other half?
There are lots of examples of folks that became a success from nothing ... yes, even these days. Many times despite rumble strips.
And are you assuming the half you're talking about haven't the skillsets of the loins they popped out of? And they aren't employing them?
Sounds pretty defeatist.
 
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