Bipartisan group of senators to unveil framework for immigration overhaul

[donsutherland1]

From today's edition of The Washington Post:

A key group of senators from both parties will unveil on
Monday the framework of a broad overhaul of the nation’s immigration laws,
including a pathway to citizenship for more than 11 million illegal
immigrants.
The detailed, four-page statement of principles will carry the
signatures of four Republicans and four Democrats, a bipartisan push that would
have been unimaginable just months ago on one of the country’s most emotionally
divisive issues.

Bipartisan group of senators to unveil framework for immigration overhaul - The Washington Post

The principles statement can be found here:

"Bipartisan Framework for Immigration Reform" report - The Washington Post

IMO, this framework appears to offer a good step toward realistic immigration reform. Much still has to happen following the formal introduction of this framework before immigration reform becomes law.

Legislative drafting is still required. Once legislation is drafted that is consistent with the above framework, one can likely expect efforts to amend the legislation, particularly by factions in the House or Senate who prefer the status quo or worse to immigration reform. A filibuster also cannot be ruled out in the Senate, though such an effort can likely be defeated given the bipartisan agreement on the framework.

 

[longknife]

This is exactly the same old male bovine excrement proposed several times in the past.

No more than giving those who broke the law by coming her illegally a chance to register and vote Democrat.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Everyone agrees in principle, that is not news, it is when drafted into actual detailed legislation that the problems occur. It is rediculous to assume that head of line privileges will not be included in these "paths to citizenship". An illegal alien granted FREE access to US K-12 education has a HUGE advantage over a dirt poor African, South/Central American or Asian immigrant. Simply having the abililty to read and write to fill out an application in English gives these "illegals" converted to "legal" applicants an edge. Immigration reform is a joke if done as a "package", as we have seen with ALL prior efforts. Pass each law change spearately and on its own merit; "compromises" make for terrible law since the "popular" stuff gets done and the rest is ignored. Look how "dreamy" Obama has made our current (selectively enforced) immigration law.

 

[Fisher]

Good luck getting anything with amnesty through the house, and anything without it through the Senate. This, like all the others, will be dead on arrival.

 

[StringBean]

I'm pretty amazed the Senate actually beat the president to it on this one.

A rare kudos to them for once.

 

[jamesrage]

From today's edition of The Washington Post:



Bipartisan group of senators to unveil framework for immigration overhaul - The Washington Post

The principles statement can be found here:

"Bipartisan Framework for Immigration Reform" report - The Washington Post

IMO, this framework appears to offer a good step toward realistic immigration reform. Much still has to happen following the formal introduction of this framework before immigration reform becomes law.

Legislative drafting is still required. Once legislation is drafted that is consistent with the above framework, one can likely expect efforts to amend the legislation, particularly by factions in the House or Senate who prefer the status quo or worse to immigration reform. A filibuster also cannot be ruled out in the Senate, though such an effort can likely be defeated given the bipartisan agreement on the framework.

People who come here illegally should never be granted amnesty or any other form of amnesty. What should be done is to enforce the laws we got now and enact laws that deter illegal immigration and encourage those who are here illegally to leave. Sanctuary states and cities should be banned and those who enact sanctuary laws should be thrown into prison, those who hire illegals should be thrown into prison and subject to asset seizure and forfieture laws that drug dealers are subjected to.Anyone enrolling their kids or themselves into school,opening a bank account,wiring money,buying a car,buying a home, cashing a check or using a credit/debit card, turning on their utilities,applying for tax payer aid, should have to show their state issued ID or driver's license.Anyone getting a state issued driver's license should have to show their birth certificate,certificate of naturalization or green card and a social security card. These things will encourage illegals to go back to their countries. I would hardly call a group of pro-illegal scumbags to be bi-partisan group.

 

[StringBean]

People who come here illegally should never be granted amnesty or any other form of amnesty. What should be done is to enforce the laws we got now and enact laws that deter illegal immigration and encourage those who are here illegally to leave. Sanctuary states and cities should be banned and those who enact sanctuary laws should be thrown into prison, those who hire illegals should be thrown into prison and subject to asset seizure and forfieture laws that drug dealers are subjected to.Anyone enrolling their kids or themselves into school,opening a bank account,wiring money,buying a car,buying a home, cashing a check or using a credit/debit card, turning on their utilities,applying for tax payer aid, should have to show their state issued ID or driver's license.Anyone getting a state issued driver's license should have to show their birth certificate,certificate of naturalization or green card and a social security card. These things will encourage illegals to go back to their countries. I would hardly call a group of pro-illegal scumbags to be bi-partisan.

You can't kick out 10 million people, the vast majority of whom are non-violent and likely have family already here in the country. Let's be responsible: self-deportation is not a solution. The only way to get 10 million people out of the country is to go door-to-door and ask everyone for their papers. We don't do that in this country. Let's make them pay some sort of restitution for their illegal activity (paying all back taxes is a decent start you must admit), learn our history, learn Enlgish, and then we can move on to other major issues.

 

[Zyphlin]

So if I get this right, their general framework of the plan would be.... (\/ denotes next step...| | denotes at the same time)

Pass the comprehensive bill
\/
Those here illegally may make themselves known and gain "probationary legal status" after a background check and fine. Those with "serious" criminal record or Nat. Sec. risk would be deported
| |
Make Enhancements to border security, employee verification, and visa tracking to try and stem the tide of illegals within the country
\/
Commission of individuals from the Southwest gives reports on when they believe the security measures have been completed in terms of their intented impact
\/
Once it's deemed that the increase security has been put in place and is succeeding, individuals here in a probationary legal status have a path to citizenship that requires them to get "at the back of the line" of all those awaiting for a green card
| |
Unless they are someone brought here as a child, at which point a seperate pathway to citizenship that has different requirements will apply to them
| |
Unless they are an agricultural worker, at which point a seperate path under an "agriculturer worker program" will apply to them.


Honestly, it's an interesting thought. I have a few questions, such as what "probationary legal status" will allow for (public benefits like weflare and foodstamps? Voting rights? Etc), about it. I also have a few concerns, such as how the security requirements will ACTUALLY be measured or if there's a cut off for entry to become probationariliy legal, in temrs of it. But the general notion.....strengthening security and enforcement and then deal with those here...is one I can get on board with and the seeming "Security MUST HAPPEN before a green card happens" provides a decent check/balance to make sure that side of the equation actually happens.

Not a huge fan of it at the moment, but it's much more in the right direction than the previous bill under George W. Bush was. Depending on how the specifics get hammered out, it's something I personally could get behind. However, those specifics being hammered out in the wrong way could easily cause the same type of flood of anger and displeasure with it that caused the last bill to get derailed.

 

[jamesrage]

You can't kick out 10 million people,

Yes we can.We can do it by doing the following - make it impossible for them to enroll themselves or their kids into school, make it to where they can't get jobs by jailing the scum that hire them, We make to where they can't engage in financial transactions by making it impossible for them to cash a check,wire money,use a credit/debit car or open a bank account.

the vast majority of whom are non-violent and likely have family already here in the country.

Irrelevant. They are criminals.

Let's be responsible: self-deportation is not a solution.

Amnesty is not responsible. Amnesty encourages illegally immigration. Amnesty amounts to pouring gasoline on a fire and expecting it to be put out.

The only way to get 10 million people out of the country is to go door-to-door and ask everyone for their papers. We don't do that in this country.

Either you are a liar or an idiot if you honestly believe that there is only 10 million people in this country illegally. There are more than one way to get rid of illegals than mass deportation. We can get them to self deport themselves.

Let's make them pay some sort of restitution for their illegal activity (paying all back taxes is a decent start you must admit),

These people either work under the table, use fraudulent social security cards or steal other people's identities. They also work at low paying jobs for below standard wages, meaning they don't make enough to pay federal income taxes. So with no documentation and even if there was they still don't make enough to pay anything.

learn our history, learn English, and then we can move on to other major issues.

Alot of them had since the Reagan Amnesty to learn English.Why would they learn English with all the bi-lingual forms, signs and classes?

 

[Ontologuy]

The senators and everyone in D.C. had better pay attention to what nine out of 10 commenters are writing at the bottom of all the internet news feed articles about the amnesty for illegals lunacy: Don't do it!

There are 20 million illegals in America who have trespassed, forged identities, and stolen American citizen jobs, classrooms, and other basic-needs resources ..

.. And instead of prosecuting these criminals, the scumbags in Washington are now all jockey-pandering for position to receive the millions of new votes for their party from former illegals!

All this in D.C. really is right now is nothing more than a major effort to secure millions of votes each of the two wing-nut parties hopes will make it more powerful!

And, of course, it will come at the expense of always-legal American citizens and legal immigrants in the form of a cross-industry wage-scale plummet and -- no, duh! -- a resultant economic depression.

You simply cannot legalize a ton of wage-slaves, at any rate, and not expect them to, even at a considerable raise to minimum wage, not drag multiple industry wage-scales down to that minimum wage that used to be living-wage. It's really a no-brainer.

The plummeted wage-scales will create a drastic reduction in both retail purchasing power and tax revenues, not only leading to an increase in unemployment, but also forcing not noly more tax hikes for those fortunate enough to be over-worked at a living-wage job, but it will also force more borrowing from China and other foreign powers, complete with a huge increase in that part of the national debt owned by foreign entities.

Can we say "moving toward a one-world government where America is just an 'equal' city-state"? You bet your Multi-Cultural Internationalist Obama we can, boys and girls!

So not only is it morally and ethically wrong to let illegals keep their ill-gotten gains at American citizen and legal immigrant expense in a land where rule of law and justice for all is pledged in our allegiance ..

.. It's just plain economically moronic!

But the meatheads in D.C., they obviously don't care about doing the right and smart thing -- all they care about is pandering for votes to be the winners in power of the newly legalized illegal's millions of votes.

So in addition to being morally and ethically wrong and economically stupid, these blatant egregious panderers in D.C. are being huge Benedict Arnolds to every always-legal American citizen and legal immigrant in America!

Nine out of ten Americans oppose doing anything but getting these 20 million illegals out of our country!

This is major issue for most Americans, especially city-dwellers who have watched illegals contribute to the creation of unemployed Americans, clog roads and freeways and tollways, shut down emergency care facilities, steal classrooms from their kids, etc., etc., etc.

The clueless in D.C. better wake fast on this one, as this is a huge issue to the great majority of Americans who do not want to see any kind of permanence assigned to neurosis-causing over-population.

I mean, really -- what American family wants to see their income reduced via wage-scale plummeting to where they too have to live three, four, five families to a single-family dwelling, just like illegals have done!

Americans are livid on this issue! Population management is foundational to peace of mind, as any competent sociologist/psychologist will tell you. Indeed, scientific experiments with rats in close quarters has shown that once population density reaches a critical point, the rats begin to attack each other. In many urban areas, that's already happening, thanks to illegals and their tendency to over-populate and crowd three, four and five families to a single-family dwelling.

That's not the American dream -- that's simply a nightmare that frightens the hell out of American citizens!

Mark my words --if any kind of amnesty and legalization occurs, I guarantee you, that from what I'm reading out there right now, there will be hell to pay in D.C.!

D.C. party animals -- you would do well now to listen up and pay attention to your legal citizen constitutents! :shock:

 

[donsutherland1]

The senators and everyone in D.C. had better pay attention to what nine out of 10 commenters are writing at the bottom of all the internet news feed articles about the amnesty for illegals lunacy: Don't do it!

The framework agreement is the result of political leaders paying attention to broad national sentiment. Repeated opinion polls and 2012 election exit polls have shown that a majority of Americans believe undocumented immigrants should have a path to citizenship. Those expressing outrage over the framework agreement, imperfect but reasonable, do not reflect national sentiment as a whole. Not surprisingly, even as bipartisanship has been difficult to come by in recent years, the framework agreement was bipartisan in nature. Political and demographic realism drove that outcome.

 

[Ontologuy]

[/I]The framework agreement is the result of political leaders paying attention to broad national sentiment.

Absolutely false!

The "bipartisan" agreement, though mostly Dems and some caving Repubs, is nevertheless all about a get-the-former-illegals'-vote pandering, and mostly nothing more.

It is bad, bad, bad for the U.S. as truly informed non-ideologues most certainly know.

Repeated opinion polls and 2012 election exit polls have shown that a majority of Americans believe undocumented immigrants should have a path to citizenship.

Absolutely meaningless from an intelligent, informed decision perspective.

None of these polls first present the realities of illegals, their trespassing, identity forging, jobs/classroom/etc. resource stealing from American citizens, their significant role in reducing the tax base and increasing tax rates, how they over-crowd residences and greatly contribute to intollerable population densities, how they close down emergency care centers, how they put American citizens and legal immigrants out of work, that there are 20 million illegals, not "11 million", that legalizing 20 million illegals will cause wage scales to plummet, that doing so will most certainly likely spiral us into a depression, that these 20 million are not "immigrants" but multiple-crime criminals and that it is not only economically crazy to legalize them but it's immoral and unethical with respect to justice for all American citizens and legal immigrants that the illegals have greatly harmed!

Thus many taking the polls who are not properly informed immediately prior to taking the polls, provide results based on ignorance, and the D.C. politicians know this -- hell, every reasonably intelligent person knows this!

The results against legalizing 20 million illegals, against pardoning them of their egreigous crimes against fellow American citizens, against letting them keep their ill-gotten gains, those poll results reflect intelligent informed and ethical people who respect their fellow citizens and justice, and the rule of law.

The results for legalization, those reflect the uninformed and those of the party who think their party will get the lion's share of the legalized illegals' votes!

Those expressing outrage over the framework agreement, imperfect but reasonable, do not reflect national sentiment as a whole.

Meaningless.

The intelligent and informed and ethical Americans who express outrage over amnesty and legalization are reflected as a still significant chunk of the population .. and, they are very, very pissed and rightly so.

And if the uninformed who aren't part of the party-animal power play were accurately informed as I presented above here, oh you better believe they too would be against amnesty and legalization.

Yes, if all Americans were accurately and completely informed as I have presented in this thread, the true national sentiment would be greatly in favor of illegals returning to from where they came.

That's an obvious no-brainer .. and it's highly unethical of people to point to the great numbers of consequence-uninformed people and make an obvious erroneous conclusion about the valuless and meaningless "national sentiment" from polls of greatly uninformed people.

Our reprentatives our entrusted to support American citizens, to do the right thing by us all no matter how many uninformed unintelligent people weigh in from an emotional, ignorant, or political power-play perspective.

Our D.C. representatives, they all know the consequences of amnesty and legalization, and they know the number is 20 million, not 11 million illegals.

But all they care about are votes, votes to keep them and their party in power.

That's egregious reprehensible behavior on their part, on Obama's, Reids, everyones, left, and right, Dem and Repub alike!

They're selling American citizens down the river, hoping they can refer to the polls as their excuse, that there'll be too many ignorant and uninformed that will keep the backlash down.

But they have another thing comming!

Not surprisingly, even as bipartisanship has been difficult to come by in recent years, the framework agreement was bipartisan in nature.

Meaningless.

"Bipartisan" in this issue really means "both parties think they have a shot at getting the illegals' votes once they're legalized, millions and millions of new votes".

The left and right -wingers, extremists, are out of the mainstream big time on this one.

If this passes, there will be major hell to pay!

I shudder to think!

Political and demographic realism drove that outcome.

Yeah .. political greed and the realistic possibility of the wing-nut parties adding more votes to their election results!

The Repubs were too afraid that the Dems had the realistic chance of getting most of those votes if they too didn't weigh in with "great rhetoric" on supporting amnesty and legalization.

It's all about two wing-nut parties wanting more votes, and at the great tragic expense of the American citizens they are supposed to be representing.

Utilitarianism at it's sickening worst!

Power corrupting, absolutely!

 

[zstep18]

Yes, if all Americans were accurately and completely informed as I have presented in this thread, the true national sentiment would be greatly in favor of illegals returning to from where they came.

You have self-described yourself as being accurately and completely informed on the subject, yet all you really post is hyperbole. Hmmmm.

 

[Ontologuy]

You have self-described yourself as being accurately and completely informed on the subject, yet all you really post is hyperbole. Hmmmm.

Your statement is false, meaningless .. and betrays its ideological origin.

I have posted no hyperbole of any kind.

I have posted the accurate, informed truth on the issue that is well known ..

.. Denied only by ideologues and party-animals thinking their party will win the lion's share of the legalized illegals' votes.

:roll:

It is so very sad that American citizens who know better are still immorally, unethically bent on selling their fellow Americans down the river in the name of power. :shock:

 

[zstep18]

Your statement is false, meaningless .. and betrays its ideological origin.

I have posted no hyperbole of any kind.

I have posted the accurate, informed truth on the issue that is well known ..

.. Denied only by ideologues and party-animals thinking their party will win the lion's share of the legalized illegals' votes.

:roll:

It is so very sad that American citizens who know better are still immorally, unethically bent on selling their fellow Americans down the river in the name of power. :shock:

I'm guessing you're not a fan of the 14th Amendment? "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Any illegal born here, should, under the 14th Amendment, be a citizen of the United States.

 

[Fenton]

Americans making excuses for law breakers but who have no qualms jailing an American citizen for "non-violent" crimes.

Hypocrites and liars.

 

[Ontologuy]

I'm guessing you're not a fan of the 14th Amendment? "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Any illegal born here, should, under the 14th Amendment, be a citizen of the United States.

Meaningless rhetoric. :roll:

Unless you're grossly uninformed, you know that the amnesty-for-illegals issue is greatly about pardoning the 20 million trespassers, identity forgers and jobs/classrooms/other resource-stealers of their multiple crimes, letting them keep their ill-gotten gains at the great expense of American citizens and legal immigrants, and making American citizens out of them so that the wing parties can become more powerful.

So you're either grossly uninformed, or feigning being uninformed.

Either way, your digression of distortion for the purpose of diverting attention from the true foundational issue at hand .. is meaningless.

 

[zstep18]

People who come here illegally should never be granted amnesty or any other form of amnesty. What should be done is to enforce the laws we got now and enact laws that deter illegal immigration and encourage those who are here illegally to leave.

Well, according to the 14th Amendment, those who are actually born in the United States are citizens of the United States.

 

[zstep18]

Meaningless rhetoric. :roll:

Unless you're grossly uninformed, you know that the amnesty-for-illegals issue is greatly about pardoning the 20 million trespassers, identity forgers and jobs/classrooms/other resource-stealers of their multiple crimes, letting them keep their ill-gotten gains at the great expense of American citizens and legal immigrants, and making American citizens out of them so that the wing parties can become more powerful.

The 14th Amendment has a huge role in the immigration debate. I'm asking you, are people who come from parents who are illegal immigrants, citizens of the United States?

So you're either grossly uninformed, or feigning being uninformed.

Either way, your digression of distortion for the purpose of diverting attention from the true foundational issue at hand .. is meaningless.

Don't think so. Like I said, the 14th Amendment has a huge role in the immigration debate. Keep up with the ad hominem attacks though!

 

[zstep18]

Americans making excuses for law breakers but who have no qualms jailing an American citizen for "non-violent" crimes.

Hypocrites and liars.

Wait, I don't want to jail American citizens for "non-violent" crimes.

 

[Paschendale]

The "bipartisan" agreement, though mostly Dems and some caving Repubs

So it comes from both parties... That's what bipartisan means. The sane majority of this country can't help it if the far right cries "traitors" every time someone dares to compromise. That's what governing is.

Americans making excuses for law breakers but who have no qualms jailing an American citizen for "non-violent" crimes.

Hypocrites and liars.

Actually, you'll probably find that the supporters of amnesty and those who want to end the drug war are mainly the same people. I'm pretty sure the second group is larger, though.

 

[Ontologuy]

The 14th Amendment has a huge role in the immigration debate. I'm asking you, are people who come from parents who are illegal immigrants, citizens of the United States? Don't think so. Like I said, the 14th Amendment has a huge role in the immigration debate. Keep up with the ad hominem attacks though!

Again, egregiously meaningless -- you are attempting to divert from the heart of the issue, from the foundation of the matter at hand: giving amnesty and legalization and citizenship to 20 million trespassers, identity forgers and jobs/classrooms/other resource thieves.

That is what the illegals are, and that is what the D.C. politicians are working on right now.

You are simply trying to reframe the matter falsely, picking on a tiny side issue, and then drowning the matter in an over-focus on this relatively meaningless aspect to completely divert attention from the heart of the matter.

Everyone knows, and you are powerless to reframe the matter otherwise and erroneously, that the matter is as I have presented it.

Why you would want to insult your fellow American citizens this way is beyond me .. unless, of course, you're not an American citizen, then your ludicrous behavior would make more sense.

Regardless, your post is evidence of why so many poll-takers were so greatly uninformed.

 

[Ontologuy]

So it comes from both parties... That's what bipartisan means.

That's right -- the Benedict Arnold behavior is happening on both sides of the aisle.

The sane majority of this country can't help it if the far right cries "traitors" every time someone dares to compromise. That's what governing is.

Meaningless and erroneous irrelevant partisan rhetoric. :roll:

 

[jamesrage]

Well, according to the 14th Amendment, those who are actually born in the United States are citizens of the United States.

No its not those born in the US. Its those born in the US and subject to the jurisdiction thereof that have birth right citizenship under section 1 of the 14th amendment.So just being born here is not enough.This is why native Americans were not citizens until the indian citizenship act of 1924. One of the authors of the 14th amendment clearly states that this is not just for anyone born on foreign soil.

The 14th amendment to the U.S. Constitution and the dangerous misinterpretation of the birthright citizenship clause - DA King - the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship -
Before its ratification in 1868, Michigan's Senator Jacob Howard, author of the citizenship clause, made the intent crystal clear to the Senate: "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include all other classes of persons."

Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Beside that the topic is about illegal immigration not anchor babies. Anchor babies are not the target of amnesty.

 

[StringBean]

Irrelevant. They are criminals.

--True they are guilty of a crime. But it is relevant whether they are a threat to society or whether they really want to be here to provide for their families.

Amnesty is not responsible. Amnesty encourages illegally immigration. Amnesty amounts to pouring gasoline on a fire and expecting it to be put out.

--Not if the borders are secured as a condition of an amnesty bill. It is, unquestionably, a necessary step in solving the problem long-term.

Either you are a liar or an idiot if you honestly believe that there is only 10 million people in this country illegally. There are more than one way to get rid of illegals than mass deportation. We can get them to self deport themselves.

--I've seen estimates that suggest anywhere from 10-30 million illegal aliens are in this country. Consider, however, that it serves society well when they become taxpaying citizens like everyone else. What if self-deportation fails and no path to citizenship is granted? We still have millions of illegals not contributing to the system they benefit from.

These people either work under the table, use fraudulent social security cards or steal other people's identities. They also work at low paying jobs for below standard wages, meaning they don't make enough to pay federal income taxes. So with no documentation and even if there was they still don't make enough to pay anything.

--If they do indeed pay no income tax once granted citizenship, that is a reflection of poor tax policy. Through the other forms of taxation at least they will be contributing something.

Alot of them had since the Reagan Amnesty to learn English.Why would they learn English with all the bi-lingual forms, signs and classes?

I'm sure the vast majority of those granted amnesty by Reagan speak fluent English. It's absurd to live in a country for decades and not learn the native language.