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Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to cla

Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

MaggieD said:
If you fill out your job application the way you say you do, I am amazed you would even be hired. Employers are interested in your time line. Leaving out five years' experience because it's not relevant would get you thrown out of my office. That's the reference you don't want me to check...you know, the one where you stole out of other employees' lockers and were fired. Or, perhaps you laid around like a sloth for five years while your wife was supporting the household. Or, perhaps you were in jail. If that omission works for you? Fine. It doesn't work for 99% of employers in the world . . . unless you're driving a cab.
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I work in a field that is hard to get work in, especially at a living wage, because of its popularity. Many people in my field are forced by circumstances to take a job in another field until they can get back into it. When we see someone with a hole in their resume we assume that they were just working in something outside of the field, or they went back to school or worked at home to raise a child.
 
Re: Ren't shake porn past, must not return to cla

Hard Truth said:
Teachers with comb-overs should be fired also. And gays, Muslims, Scientologists, Mormons, Atheists, they can all create a distraction.
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This doesn't even make sense. The children wouldn't be looking for pictures of any of the above online naked and probably having sexual fantasies about teacher. That would tend to make learning and listening to the teacher a little more difficulty, don't you think?

I'm not even expecting a reply from this poster. Probably one of those fly-by-night posters. :roll:
 
Re: 't shake porn past, must not return to cla

Dr. Chuckles said:
No one is endorsing them "getting away with it", but pointing out in a chaotic school atmosphere many will
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If "many" will then those people should not be in charge. Put someone in charge that won't let "many" get away with it. People with backbones and the ability to tell right from wrong and stick to it instead of cowering.
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

ChrisL said:
Well I didn't know that. If that's the case, that would be the reason for ME firing her, because she lied on her resume. And, did she really lie, or did she just leave it out?
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I read where she lied several times under oath but can't find that link now. Here is what I could find:

Halas should have disclosed her past when she applied to work at the district, said Tom DeLapp, a spokesman for the school district.

"She repeatedly and consciously had a pattern of lies and cover-ups when asked about it by her employers," DeLapp said. "She would say 'I didn’t do it' or would create other lies to try and minimize the damage."
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Source
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Hard Truth said:
I work in a field that is hard to get work in, especially at a living wage, because of its popularity. Many people in my field are forced by circumstances to take a job in another field until they can get back into it. When we see someone with a hole in their resume we assume that they were just working in something outside of the field, or they went back to school or worked at home to raise a child.
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That's funny, I've known quite a few HR folks. They don't assume - they ASK (because it's their butt on the line if they don't). And a five year hole is a big red flag.
 
Re: Ren't shake porn past, must not return to cla

rathi said:
Firing someone for arbitrary morality is a pandora's box. In certain liberal areas of the bay area, your views would make you just as much a pariah as the women in question. Its easy to make such a claim when its your morality that is being pushed on others, but inevitably you will find yourself on the chopping block. Decisions regarding employment should be based on job performance, not subjective opinions.
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They aren't arbitrary. They are ethics handed down from generation to generation, discussed at length by society at large as to what is professionally appropriate and what is not. It is just that educators are held to higher standards from most other professions.

An instructor is generally speaking, not allowed to proselytize students with their individual political creeds. An instructor is asked that they keep the students in their seats from bell to bell. An instructor is asked to follow certain professional attire, so as to maintain symbolic distance between student (young, non-authority figure) and instructor (adult, authority figure). We could go on and on. Instructors are asked to keep their personal lives relatively clean from social scandal in addition to not breaking laws. It gets a great deal looser with adult students in post-secondary education, but it's still there.

Educators are not entirely unique in this either. Many employers keep an eye on how you are seen as publicly advertising yourself on the internet, and if that is how they want you to be connected with the company. That's just reality. You non-educator folks simply live a looser lifestyle than educators. That's all there is to it. You may find it archaic and strange, but it's a very conservative position.
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

clownboy said:
I read where she lied several times under oath but can't find that link now. Here is what I could find:



Source
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Okay, I would fire her for the lying, but I wouldn't want to have to fire her because of something she did in her past. OTOH, people should probably think about things before they take teaching jobs or get involved in pornography.
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Hard Truth said:
Same with guys with comb-overs, gays, Muslims, etc.
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No, not the same. There have been occasions where homosexuality or religious choice has come into discussion over whether one is comfortably employed or not, but there is a social, professional, and legal understanding that one cannot fire over that. Big difference. Once pornography and its performers become socially acceptable enough, then matters entirely change.
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Hard Truth said:
I work in a field that is hard to get work in, especially at a living wage, because of its popularity. Many people in my field are forced by circumstances to take a job in another field until they can get back into it. When we see someone with a hole in their resume we assume that they were just working in something outside of the field, or they went back to school or worked at home to raise a child.
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And that kind of lackadaisical approach to resumes is exactly what gets companies sued when they hire, for instance, pedophiles to drive school buses, felons to work in banks, and porn stars to teach children. When/if the **** hits the fan? Their ass is grass, as they say. ;)
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Surtr said:
It's a classic strawman. You clearly picked a veteran because of the emotional value of veteran status, but just to indulge your little game, yes, I would pick a veteran over a pornstar. Killing people is hardly the only thing uniformed service members do. They have to endure tests to ensure physical and mental strength, they have to learn how to lead, they have to learn how to adapt and overcome many obstacles, they gain invaluable experience in many aspects of life, and as a service member ranks up, they have to learn how to teach and pass down their knowledge to others in a way that they can understand and actually learn.

What skills does a pornstar bring to the table? What does this glorified prostitute do that puts her above a "killer" as you call us? Lay on her back? Suck dick? Take cocks in multiple orifices at a time? Take a money shot to the face without flinching? Whoopty doo. Her past career only demonstrates moral turpitude, and parents don't want that around their children.
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Sorry, the fact is that you consider killing people when ordered to do so by the government to be moral and having sex on camera immoral. I disagree. In my view, a rational consideration of morality based on whether harm was caused is better than a thoughtless morality based on certain books, authority figures, tradition and social consensus.
 
Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

Kal'Stang said:
And do you see anyone here denying the mentality of a 14 year old here?
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Yes, in fact most of the arguments in her favor, if not all, require us to ignore the mentality of children in a school setting, and some even go so far as to compare it to a professional work engironment

foibgIf they misbehave then punish them. You punish the people that do wrong, not the people that don't.
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1) the entire reason bullying is such a problem in school is the very limited ability of teachers to police a large group of children in a large building

2) why should a school have to deal with her social baggage, or even want to? They have enough to deal with already



Umm...because its the RIGHT thing to do? See thats the problem with many people these days. [/Quote]

What employer has an obligation to deal with their employees social baggage?
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Hard Truth said:
Sorry, the fact is that you consider killing people when ordered to do so by the government to be moral and having sex on camera immoral. I disagree. In my view, a rational consideration of morality based on whether harm was caused is better than a thoughtless morality based on certain books, authority figures, tradition and social consensus.
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When you view things from a State or Nation-State standpoint rather than random person A and random person B, soldiers become defenders of that identity, hence why it is valued.
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Hard Truth said:
Sorry, the fact is that you consider killing people when ordered to do so by the government to be moral and having sex on camera immoral. I disagree. In my view, a rational consideration of morality based on whether harm was caused is better than a thoughtless morality based on certain books, authority figures, tradition and social consensus.
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Whatever. It is obvious here that your views on morality are out of touch with "community standards" and not the operating standard used by the rest of us.
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

MaggieD said:
And that kind of lackadaisical approach to resumes is exactly what gets companies sued when they hire, for instance, pedophiles to drive school buses, felons to work in banks, and porn stars to teach children. When/if the **** hits the fan? Their ass is grass, as they say. ;)
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Hence why background checks are done. Surely you don't rely entirely on what is on the application for such things?

You're arguement has become one of criminal liability instead of just past work history.
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

ChrisL said:
Okay, I would fire her for the lying, but I wouldn't want to have to fire her because of something she did in her past. OTOH, people should probably think about things before they take teaching jobs or get involved in pornography.
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If you were in Nazi Germany and were asked if you were a Jew, wouldn't you lie if you were? It is OK to lie to people who are only out to screw you over when you have not done anything wrong.
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

clownboy said:
Whatever. It is obvious here that your views on morality are out of touch with "community standards" and not the operating standard used by the rest of us.
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Community standards allowed for such things as segregation, miscegation, slavery, and wars. Sorry but right is right and wrong is wrong. Just because the majority of people may think something is wrong does not mean that it actually and in reality IS wrong.
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Hard Truth said:
If you were in Nazi Germany and were asked if you were a Jew, wouldn't you lie if you were? It is OK to lie to people who are only out to screw you over when you have not done anything wrong.
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Good Lord! It's completely different to lie about something to save your LIFE than it is to lie to get a job. :lamo
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

clownboy said:
Whatever. It is obvious here that your views on morality are out of touch with "community standards" and not the operating standard used by the rest of us.
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Most people are dishonest hypocrites and bigots. They watch and buy porn yet will discriminate against a porn star seeking other employment. These same community standards discriminated against gays until very recently. It took years of campaigning by activists to change those views,.
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Hard Truth said:
Most people are dishonest hypocrites and bigots. They watch and buy porn yet will discriminate against a porn star seeking other employment. These same community standards discriminated against gays until very recently. It took years of campaigning by activists to change those views,.
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I used to be annoyed at that, like in the novel Babbit...until I came to think that eventually, I had a perverse sense of admiration for the hypocrisy. Then I later found out I didn't admire them so much as I was more interested in understanding power structures, just usually without the zeal to overturn them (which seemed to be the only way people wanted to learn about it). When you find out that some things aren't "fair," you're expected to freak out and throw a revolution and then get bitterly disappointed when you find out it doesn't work that way either.
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Hard Truth said:
But that would have no impact on the way others treat her, which is the sole basis for the judge's decision.
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It absolutely would.

If it wasn't true, when little Johny comes home from school and tells his mother that his teacher used to be a porn star his mom can tell him that she really wasn't. She just happens to look like a woman who made porn. She can then proceed to kick his little ass for looking at porn and take away his internet privileges. With a little luck, little Johny would learn a valuable lesson about false allegations and spreading lies. But that can't happen in this case because his teacher REALLY IS adult film star Tiffany Six.:shock:
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Fiddytree said:
No, not the same. There have been occasions where homosexuality or religious choice has come into discussion over whether one is comfortably employed or not, but there is a social, professional, and legal understanding that one cannot fire over that. Big difference. Once pornography and its performers become socially acceptable enough, then matters entirely change.
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Firing people for being homosexual was legal until very recently in the USA. The exact same arguments were sued against gays that are being used against the porn performer now. Society was wrong then, and they are wrong now.

When the current generation gets older and enough of them suffer discrimination for all their tattoos, piercings, spring break flashing pics, controversial art work, nude pics sent to boyfriends, stupid comments posted online, etc. there may be a movement to end this particular type of bigotry also.
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

Hard Truth said:
Firing people for being homosexual was legal until very recently in the USA. The exact same arguments were sued against gays that are being used against the porn performer now. Society was wrong then, and they are wrong now.

When the current generation gets older and enough of them suffer discrimination for all their tattoos, piercings, spring break flashing pics, controversial art work, nude pics sent to boyfriends, stupid comments posted online, etc. there may be a movement to end this particular type of bigotry also.
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Ever notice how I basically hinted at that when I first posted in this thread this afternoon? What you're asking is widespread social change, but blaming the education system for doing what they have done best: be the purveyors of what society wants. Maybe you folks are looking at the wrong target here, or at the very least, are getting too amped up. The easiest predictor is that the education system will need to preserve the status quo regardless. Defining what the status-quo is is easier to change, even though it's not easy at all.
 
Re: Judges say Calif. middle school teacher can't shake porn past, must not return to

ChrisL said:
Good Lord! It's completely different to lie about something to save your LIFE than it is to lie to get a job. :lamo
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Haha

If people are trying to screw you over, the truth is off the table and outright deception is fine. - Hard Truth.
 
Re: Jan't shake porn past, must not return to cla

Hard Truth said:
If you were in Nazi Germany and were asked if you were a Jew, wouldn't you lie if you were? It is OK to lie to people who are only out to screw you over when you have not done anything wrong.
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Lol~!!!
 
Re: Rhake porn past, must not return to cla

Dr. Chuckles said:
Yes, in fact most of the arguments in her favor, if not all, require us to ignore the mentality of children in a school setting, and some even go so far as to compare it to a professional work engironment
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Show them please. Post numbers are sufficiant. Context is important.

Dr. Chuckles said:
1) the entire reason bullying is such a problem in school is the very limited ability of teachers to police a large group of children in a large building
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Wrong. The reason that bullying is such a problem is due to crappy parents not teaching their kids correctly. But if you think that this is part of the problem then there is a simple way to fix this...hire enough security to constantly patrol the school and install camera's. The moment bullying is detected...stop it and punish the perpetrators.

Dr. Chuckles said:
2) why should a school have to deal with her social baggage, or even want to? They have enough to deal with already
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I've already answered this.



Umm...because its the RIGHT thing to do? See thats the problem with many people these days. [/Quote]

What employer has an obligation to deal with their employees social baggage?[/QUOTE]
 
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