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Obama chides GOP on debt limit: 'We are not a deadbeat nation'

So Obama didn't spend enough with his failed Stimulus Package?

That would be correct.

Let's have the discussion. Where did Obama get the money for his failed stimulus?

Capital markets of course!

Who claimed that? Strawman much? Where did I claim only people who are on welfare shop at retail stores? Why don't you try addressing the actual facts instead of tap dancing around the issue like a sideshow clown. People who are on welfare primarily spend money on commodities. Gas/Food/ect. There is no productivity/wealth creation associated with their income. NO NET GAIN. It's a WASH. They are not contributing any productivity to the Economy with labor. Otherwise the Government would just pay everyone infinite unemployment not to work and shop at Walmart. You're an economic illiterate.

Now you have to result to personal attacks, hmmm..... Tell that to the retailers, distributors, and producers of these commodities.

Again, this is a laughable and you completely missed the point and dodged the issue. You are admitting Government received it's money from Private Wealth creation and doesn't generate wealth on it's own. It's receiving more than 2 trillion annually actually. Obama is illegally spending at TARP level of expenditures going on 4 years. The Government already is taking in enough to pay the debt service. So there goes that strawman. Obama doesn't need to raise the debt ceiling to service the debt. The only reason why Obama wants to raise the debt is so he can expand the Welfare State.

Nonsense. Cutting spending will create a hole in the revenues generated by the private sector via direct government expenditures. This is a fact, no amount of baseless rhetoric will negate it!

Secondly you are completely ignoring the negative externalities and opportunity costs associated with removing that private capital from the hands of those who would invest it far more wisely than a Federal Government that is wasting 125B a year on "improper payments". Your entire fallacy rests on the notion that somehow the Government is a better investment banker than the Private Sector. That's radical idealism. Not Economics.

Crowding out of the private sector cannot occur when we have a glut in idle resources; namely labor (see unemployment) and capital (see real interest rates on private sector debt). Your appearant lack of knowledge in regards to the macro economy continues to stick out like a sore thumb.

You are stuck within a cult of Hope and Change.

Nope! I simply have a strong understanding of political economy.
 
A different time? It was 6 years ago. What you really meant is "that was a different President."

No. It was a different economic climate. Do you need me to explain why?
 


Most of the substantial cuts are to social programs, without any cuts for corporate welfare, or cuts to the military industrial complex. The GOP just voted unanimously to spend $630 on the military in 2013, If we multiply that over the next 10 years that is $6.3 trillion dollars in spending.

And the list you provided never evened garnered enough support by Republicans to put it up for a vote.
From your link:

"So, yes, the list of “Republican budget cuts” is real. But historically it has been difficult to make such deep cuts in the budget, and some of the proposed cuts go further than even the Republican leaders so far have been willing to support."
 
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Most of the substantial cuts are to social programs, without any cuts for corporate welfare, or cuts to the military industrial complex. The GOP just voted unanimously to spend $630 on the military in 2013, If we multiply that over the next 10 years that is $6.3 trillion dollars in spending.

And the list you provided never evened garnered enough support by Republicans to put it up for a vote.
From your link:

"So, yes, the list of “Republican budget cuts” is real. But historically it has been difficult to make such deep cuts in the budget, and some of the proposed cuts go further than even the Republican leaders so far have been willing to support."

Thanks for being so predictable...what part of what I posted did not comply with your request? You asked for specific spending cuts proposed by Republicans...which I provided. Now you don't like them, predictably.
 
Thanks for being so predictable...what part of what I posted did not comply with your request? You asked for specific spending cuts proposed by Republicans...which I provided. Now you don't like them, predictably.

Thanks for the list Dickieboy! Too bad if never even had enough support among the Republicans to be put up for a vote!
 
Thanks for the list Dickieboy! Too bad if never even had enough support among the Republicans to be put up for a vote!

Well technically it was written up but the various parts were referred to the various subcommittees...and apparently has died. To be sure collectively there is little chance the bill would pass the House and certainly not the Senate. Some are actually not bad ideas.
 
Well technically it was written up but the various parts were referred to the various subcommittees...and apparently has died. To be sure collectively there is little chance the bill would pass the House and certainly not the Senate. Some are actually not bad ideas.

So are there actually any spending cuts that the Republicans have agreed on and put forward for a vote?
 
Obama said he will not negotiate on the debt ceiling. He also talked about gun control, and more.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies… America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better." - then Senator Obama.

So then he said raising it was a sign of leadership failure, a sign the fed's can't pay it's own bills. Yet now he says it MUST be raised to pay our bills...??

I know the president can not reconcile this, what can his supporters come up with to excuse it away?
 
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies… America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better." - then Senator Obama.

So then he said raising it was a sign of leadership failure, a sign the fed's can't pay it's own bills. Yet now he says it MUST be raised to pay our bills...??

I know the president can not reconcile this, what can his supporters come up with to excuse it away?


The US can pay its bills, this so called fiscal cliff was of our own creation. And by the way, economists know that you cut spending during boom times. I would not consider us to be in boom times! Cutting spending now would could throw us into another recession according to the non-partisan CBO.
 
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies… America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better." - then Senator Obama.

So then he said raising it was a sign of leadership failure, a sign the fed's can't pay it's own bills. Yet now he says it MUST be raised to pay our bills...??

I know the president can not reconcile this, what can his supporters come up with to excuse it away?

His position, on this issue, has evolved. That was then, but this is now. Basically, any excuse is valid for a true Obamatron. ;)
 
The US can pay its bills, this so called fiscal cliff was of our own creation. And by the way, economists know that you cut spending during boom times. I would not consider us to be in boom times! Cutting spending now would could throw us into another recession according to the non-partisan CBO.

It was an Obama creation to pretend, pre-election, that he signed on to a "bipartisan" deficit reduction plan. Immediately, post election, the "cliff deal" was "no longer acceptable" and was "fundamentally transformed" into more borrow and spend as usual; after all, he then had a "mandate" to ignore current (but effective only after 1/1/2013) federal law. Of course, now Obama claims that "cliff deal" signed into law (by the tricky Obama himself) that would need far less of a "debt ceiling" increase is a mere thing of the past, a mere technicallity that he brushed away just as any need for a formal "budget". Obama is a slimy creature, but a master manipulator of the Obamatrons that worship his Santa Claus like qualites. Yes they can!
 
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Heavens no! He should get to spend at least as much as last year, after all this is America, we can surely afford to borrow/print another $1 trillion. America always pays its bills! Look at the last 4 years of $1 trillion deficts; you see, that is proof that America always pays its bills! That $16.4 trillion of national debt will be paid off in no time, just watch the next (first?) Obama "budget", that will surely make us all believe him. But, right now (until Obama is out of office), we just have to "bite the bullet" and borrow/print some more to spend on those bills that America has. Now is the time to "invest" since interest rates are nearly zero! ;)

No he should be allowed to double the debt and triple it like Bush 2 and Reagan and have the debt ceiling raised everytime without question like past administrations. This problem wasnt started in the last 4 years and your non-sence of blaming Obama is old. America knows he didnt create the mess. Plus the debt ceiling has nothing to do with future spending. Republicans have lied long enough about the debt ceiling and once again we have the teatards threating America like Al Queda and the Taliban.
 
No he should be allowed to double the debt and triple it like Bush 2 and Reagan and have the debt ceiling raised everytime without question like past administrations. This problem wasnt started in the last 4 years and your non-sence of blaming Obama is old. America knows he didnt create the mess. Plus the debt ceiling has nothing to do with future spending. Republicans have lied long enough about the debt ceiling and once again we have the teatards threating America like Al Queda and the Taliban.

Great logic there Skippy! The pre-election Obama, on 7/3/2008 said borrowing was evil and unAmerican when he opposed Bush deficits, yet now that is all OK since that fine American tradition must be not only preserved but pushed to new limits. Obama has already exceeded the added Bush natioanl debt amount, yet you see that as no problem, because it is your annointed Obama at the helm, not a nasty republicant like Reagan or Bush. Now, since Obama did not invent massive federal deficts, he is free to show us just how high he, the king and savior, can make them. He has Bush 43 beat already, in only half the time, he is histroric!
 
Great logic there Skippy! The pre-election Obama, on 7/3/2008 said borrowing was evil and unAmerican when he opposed Bush deficits, yet now that is all OK since that fine American tradition must be not only preserved but pushed to new limits. Obama has already exceeded the added Bush natioanl debt amount, yet you see that as no problem, because it is your annointed Obama at the helm, not a nasty republicant like Reagan or Bush. Now, since Obama did not invent massive federal deficts, he is free to show us just how high he, the king and savior, can make them. He has Bush 43 beat already, in only half the time, he is histroric!


I am just matching your logic am I not. You pretty much do not know how to add either. Lol Bush never put the Wars on the books! You claim Obama is so bad the biggest drivers of the debt are the Bush Tax cuts and the Wars. Plus Bush had a surplus when he came into office and the Republicans pretty much blew through that! So please spare me and the rest of the world the blame Obama bit.
 
It was an Obama creation to pretend, pre-election, that he signed on to a "bipartisan" deficit reduction plan. Immediately, post election, the "cliff deal" was "no longer acceptable" and was "fundamentally transformed" into more borrow and spend as usual; after all, he then had a "mandate" to ignore current (but effective only after 1/1/2013) federal law. Of course, now Obama claims that "cliff deal" signed into law (by the tricky Obama himself) that would need far less of a "debt ceiling" increase is a mere thing of the past, a mere technicallity that he brushed away just as any need for a formal "budget". Obama is a slimy creature, but a master manipulator of the Obamatrons that worship his Santa Claus like qualites. Yes they can!

"Setting a looming deadline to avert self-created calamity has become a frequent device for the U.S. Congress to get things done in recent years. When all else fails, as it often does, it's supposed to frighten members into action.
That was the idea when Congress created the "fiscal cliff" in August, 2011 to resolve a partisan struggle, also with a deadline and also self-created, over raising the federal debt ceiling.

Catastrophic budget cuts, timed to coincide with the threat of hefty income tax increases, would finally produce big cuts in the soaring federal budget by Dec. 31, 2012, or else.
It didn't work."

The Fiscal Cliff: Congress Created Looming Deadline To Avert Collapse
 
I am just matching your logic am I not. You pretty much do not know how to add either. Lol Bush never put the Wars on the books! You claim Obama is so bad the biggest drivers of the debt are the Bush Tax cuts and the Wars. Plus Bush had a surplus when he came into office and the Republicans pretty much blew through that! So please spare me and the rest of the world the blame Obama bit.

Where are the Obama savings from ending the Bush Iraq war? Hmm...
 
Where are the Obama savings from ending the Bush Iraq war? Hmm...

Nice try lol. You have nothing left to offer. I think you may have a case if Obama doubles or triples the debt until that happens why dont you start blaming Republicans for the mess we are in the history of the last 30 years of big spending is all over Republicans hands.
 
"Setting a looming deadline to avert self-created calamity has become a frequent device for the U.S. Congress to get things done in recent years. When all else fails, as it often does, it's supposed to frighten members into action.
That was the idea when Congress created the "fiscal cliff" in August, 2011 to resolve a partisan struggle, also with a deadline and also self-created, over raising the federal debt ceiling.

Catastrophic budget cuts, timed to coincide with the threat of hefty income tax increases, would finally produce big cuts in the soaring federal budget by Dec. 31, 2012, or else.
It didn't work."

The Fiscal Cliff: Congress Created Looming Deadline To Avert Collapse

Of course it did not work, it was designed not to work. As I said, Obama is a master manipulator. It was only intended to get Obama re-elected, after that it was tossed aside for more borrow and spend and "continuing resolutions" so that nobody has to sign a "budget" bill. I know that our cowering congress critters will gladly play along, as they love to borrow and spend too. It just seems amazing that this is accepted as "governing" now. Whether it is a congressional stupid committee or the moron in chief "leading from behind" matters little in the end; the plain simple truth is that tossing federal money in all possible directions is not an economic plan and the days of borrow and spend are not as "unlimitted" as the CBO would like us to believe.
 
Of course it did not work, it was designed not to work. As I said, Obama is a master manipulator. It was only intended to get Obama re-elected, after that it was tossed aside for more borrow and spend and "continuing resolutions" so that nobody has to sign a "budget" bill. I know that our cowering congress critters will gladly play along, as they love to borrow and spend too. It just seems amazing that this is accepted as "governing" now. Whether it is a congressional stupid committee or the moron in chief "leading from behind" matters little in the end; the plain simple truth is that tossing federal money in all possible directions is not an economic plan and the days of borrow and spend are not as "unlimitted" as the CBO would like us to believe.

You said it was Obama's creation, when in fact it was a creation by Congress. I agree that when the economy has recovered we should cut spending, and most of our wasteful spending is for the military/industrial complex.
 
I am just matching your logic am I not. You pretty much do not know how to add either. Lol Bush never put the Wars on the books! You claim Obama is so bad the biggest drivers of the debt are the Bush Tax cuts and the Wars. Plus Bush had a surplus when he came into office and the Republicans pretty much blew through that! So please spare me and the rest of the world the blame Obama bit.

The Clinton Surplus is a myth

He stole money from the SS Trust Fund to pay down Public Debt. Smoke and Mirrors.

intragovernmental holdings went up every year he was in office. So did the National Debt. Clinton's last budget left 100B in new debt. He also left Bush with a recession and a plotting/planning OBL in Afghanistan which led to 9/11. In other words, those '2 unfunded wars" that Democrats kept voting would never have been necessary had Clinton done his job as Commander in Chief.
 
Perhaps the White House should let the House of Representatives perform it's function, rather than issuing dictates.
 
We are not a deadbeat nation...

We are just a massively fiscally irresponsible, wreckless, governmental equivilent to a "Shopaholic" nation.

A shop-a-holic shouldn't stop paying off their credit cards....they just shouldn't go on opening up new credit cards to purchase more and more ****.

There are few, if any, on the right pushing for the notion of defaulting on our loans or on our mandatory spending. There are simply people saying we shouldn't borrow any more money. Most Republicans I see talking about it would then want to CUT discretionary spending to make up the difference and reform entitlement spending. I see very few Republicans saying we should make up for what we can't borrow by not issuing social security checks or not paying our debts. If the President wants to go that route, fine. If he wants to say that's one option that may have to happen, and blame the Republicans for making that option have to be considered, fine. If he's stating that such a thing is what the Republicans are pushing for, that's incorrect.

The reality is our President and this Congress had 15 months to work out a deal to legitimately and reasonable address our woeful spending issues as they relate to the budget....and they've done nothing but push papers around and give pseudo campaign speeches on it. Now the time is come where the backs are up against the wall and they're both pointing to the other side for blame. They're all to blame because they've all drug their feet.

Now, now, now...otaxa explicitly stated he is willing to have a conversation. Awe inspiring leadership that makes me feel proud that at least someone is willing to do something, and not just anything mind you. I say conversation summit!
 
And I was right. he didn't say anything like that (except in the minds of 2nd amend bed-wetters).

Wrong again.....you missed the part where he explained the example of what he could do. At least he did give some insight as to how he was looking at it.

Did you need it explained in Jive?
rolleyes.png
 
Your analysis lacks the substance to debunk anything i have stated. I have never been to the Daily Kos website, so please try and stay relevant and not make simplistic assumptions that do not pertain to this discussion.

Projection much?

I gave you at a minimum half a dozen links to studies/reports/MSM articles refuting all your pathetic talking points. You have provided no sources. You have provided no analysis.

Your response was to ignore every source and continue this ridiculous talking point that Obama didn't spend enough money, the Government is a better investment banker than the private sector, and you have had no response in regards to the Opportunity Costs and Negative Externalities associated with massive Government Spending, such as rising commodity prices, which we have been seeing on the rise for 4+ years as millions upon millions of Americans slip deeper into poverty, and a devaluation of our currency in the long term. All that massive Government Spending really is, is a shifting of resources. There is no net gain. That's why the Stimulus was such a train wreck.

You can't refute THE FACT that people who are on welfare/unemployment receive their income from the Government, which in reality gets that money through wealth redistribution. There is no productivity/labor associated with their income. They use the money for necessities they would have purchased anyways to stay alive had they been employed, which means there is no multiplier effect in regards to welfare spending. It's a wash. otherwise Spain and Greece would be the leading Economies in the world and all Obama would have to do to create utopia would be print/borrow a gazillion dollars, mint endless trillion dollar coins, and make everyone unemployed forever. The unemployed aren't taking their small unemployment checks and investing that money, in turn creating more opportunities for wealth creation. They don't use that money to hire people, create businesses.

Consumption is the sole end and purpose of all production - Adam Smith

Our Economy has a Productivity and Trade Problem. Not a Demand and Supply problem. This notion that we need to borrow and spend spend spend is a fantasy. Our Economy needs PRODUCTIVITY AND TRADE which means JOBS. Not endless welfare and entitlement spending.

US trade deficit hits seven-month high as exports stay low — RT

The US trade deficit widened to $48.7 billion in November as visible imports grew by 3.8 percent and far outpaced the number of exports, thereby slowing the growth of the US economy and bringing the trade gap to a seven-month high.

It's been a proven FACT that FDR's Economic Policies extended the Great Depression. New research shows that there is little if any benefit to massive Government Stimulus Spending

In Search of the Multiplier for Federal Spending in the States During the Great Depression

If there was any time to expect a large peace-time multiplier effect from federal spending in the states, it would have been during the period from 1930 through 1940. Interest rates were near the zero bound, and unemployment rates never fell below 10 percent and there was ample idle capacity. We develop an annual panel data set for the 48 states from 1930 through 1940 with evidence on federal government grants, loans, and tax collections and a variety of measures of economic activity. Using panel data methods we estimate a multiplier, defined as the change in per capita state economic activity in response to an additional dollar per capita of federal funds. The state per capita personal income multiplier with respect to per capita federal grants was around 1.1. Some point estimates for multipliers for nontransfer grants and nonfarm grants were higher but not statistically significantly different from one. There is some evidence that AAA farm grants had negative or no effect on personal income. Federal grants had stronger effects on consumption than on personal income, but they had no positive effect on various measures of private employment.

Obama's Economic Team predicted we'd be at around 5% Unemployment if we passed his failed stimulus which used every Keynesian fallacy you represent. Didn't happen.

Unemployment Rate Projections - Business Insider

unemployment-against-projections-august.jpg


So instead of a population gainfully employed (As you pointed out happened during the Bush years. The irony is palpable) we have trillions more in new debt, and an economy that is barely keeping up with Population Growth (if even that). These are economic statistics that you have admitted to IN THIS THREAD, yet you still laughable are sitting on your house of cards. It doesn't pass the laugh test.

Here is the Economic Reality this country is facing right now. Pay attention and get educated:

1. 47 million Americans are on Food Stamps. That number was 32 million in 2008. In 1970 1 out of every 50 families was on Food Stamps. Under Obama that number is 6.5

2. A million children in the Public School System are homeless. A 50% rise since 2007.

NLCHP.org

3. Median Income has dropped 4 years in a row

4. Families with a head of household under age 30 have a poverty rate of almost 40%.

5. The percentage of working age Americans with a job has been under 59% for 39 straight months. This is AFTER Obama's Stimulus and Omnibus Spending bills were signed into law

6. In Sept 2009 58.7% of working age Americans were employed. 4 years later guess what. It's the exact same % basically. This is after Obama has borrowed/printed/spent nearly 6 trillion and Harry Reid refuses to pass a budget. Lemme guess, Bush's fault right? No net gain in jobs. No multiplier effect. No net increase in % of Americans employmed after trillions in Government Spending.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/EMRATIO.txt

7. More than 100 million Americans who are of working age DO NOT HAVE A JOB

8. Obama predicted 4.2% GDP next year. The rosiest of projections puts it at 2.5%

9. The US Economy is on the decline globally

A Look Behind the U.S. Decline in Global Competitiveness - NYTimes.com

10. 5 million less manufacturing jobs since 2000

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/MANEMP.txt

11. A shrinking middle class

The middle class falls further behind - Aug. 22, 2012

12. 55% of small businesses would not start their businesses today. Blame Obama

55 percent of small business owners would not start company today, blame Obama | WashingtonExaminer.com

13. Obama issues 216 billion in regulations last year.

Report: Obama officials issued $216 billion in regulations last year - The Hill's RegWatch

14. Middle Class Household Spending is on the decline

Middle class suffers 'worst decade in modern history,' report says | Fox News

15. 1 out of 4 jobs in this country pays 10 bucks an hour

16. Obama is spending 5.60$ for every 1$ of actual real wealth generated in the private economy. He has to borrow/print the rest

17. Obama has to borrow 46 cents for every dollar he spends

I could produce dozens of economic statistics from MSM sources and it wouldn't matter. You will just continue to toss out simplistic taking points, red herrings/strawman/obfuscate/deflect/blamebush ect. and pretend you know what you are talking about when you don't.
 
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