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Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Goshin said:
So my assertion that I will no longer stand in your way politically on this issue means nothing then? You demand full acceptance, agreement and active support or nothing perhaps? I must bow down and swear fealty to your cause or I'm a hypocrite? Will the Thought Police come and get me because one issue is more important to me than another issue?

Apparently there is plenty of irony and hypocrisy to go around.
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Uh, I'm not demanding anything from you and I didn't say that what you said "meant nothing". I said that invoking the minority/majority argument that you did in lieu of the fact that you've based your passive opposition to same-sex marriage, in part, on "they're a minority so they don't matter" is ironic and hilarious. That's true - no need to invoke a melodramatic red herring in response.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Redress said:
So you support wasting crisises? Me, I prefer to learn from them, make changes needed, and improve.
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Admit it, you prefer to tear up the constitution. Obama is not a king he does not have the power to legislate. If they do any executive orders to ban guns, of course the Supreme Court will rule against him and then we can impeach him for abuse of power...Is he that stupid? ****ing wannabe despot.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

ThePlayDrive said:
Uh, I'm not demanding anything from you and I didn't say that what you said "meant nothing". I said that invoking the minority/majority argument that you did in lieu of the fact that you've based your passive opposition to same-sex marriage, in part, on "they're a minority so they don't matter" is ironic and hilarious. That's true - no need to invoke a melodramatic red herring in response.
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Fine bud. You scored on on the Goshin. Well done.

Perhaps we can get back to the topic now instead of talking about me... such as, should "the will of the majority" be sufficient to strip a (40 to 80 million person) minority of an established and enumerated Constitutional right?

My answer was "no"....
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Goshin said:
Fine bud. You scored on on the Goshin. Well done.

Perhaps we can get back to the topic now instead of talking about me... such as, should "the will of the majority" be sufficient to strip a (40 to 80 million person) minority of an established and enumerated Constitutional right?

My answer was "no"....
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Your posts are so ... whiny.

And that's not really the topic since Obama hasn't stated that he's going to do anything even close to that. That's just your imagination working in overdrive.
 
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Redress said:
A year ago this would have been a conspiracy theory since there was no evidence to support it. No one cvould have predicted the mass outcry by the public for something like this. Being right one time in a million is not something to take pride in.
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This is all I hope to say on the "conspiracy angle", but, that was the "theory" was that the situations would be highlighted for the media to generate outcry in which to take the guns. It goes further to say, intending this to cause a civil war which would tear up military and police so that the outcry would be for a UN/ NATO takeover and initiating full martial law.

I saw the trend of where things were going, and hoped it would change, but the call for the guns is now undeniable.

What's going on in the country if the "theory" is close to correct?

How about we examine the potential outcomes of these threats coming to pass??
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

ThePlayDrive said:
You're posts are so ... whiny.

And that's not really the topic since Obama hasn't stated that he's going to do anything even close to that. That's just your imagination working in overdrive.
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When your ox is the one being gored, I'll remind you you said that.


Good evening sir.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

This is just ridiculous, shutup Biden and shutup Obama. That power is to be used wisely and its going to their heads,"with great power comes great responsibility."
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Goshin said:
When your ox is the one being gored, I'll remind you you said that.

Good evening sir.
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I don't hypothesize the potential future actions of politicians with rash, emotional perceptions that I don't realize I have and instead accuse those with whom I disagree of having. Instead, I hypothesize by looking at what they actually say and do and by what their constituents and party would be willing to let them do, so good luck with that.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

ThePlayDrive said:
Your posts are so ... whiny.

And that's not really the topic since Obama hasn't stated that he's going to do anything even close to that. That's just your imagination working in overdrive.
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The portion of the post that I "like" is bolded. The rest is beyond strange, since "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is without question, while SSM is legal in some states and not in others, and is already on the SCOTUS docket in at least two forms/cases. If one can have a "strong preference" for partner gender then one can certainly have a "strong preference" for the type of firearm that they wish to keep and bear. The really strange thing is that a clearly stated individual right is even being debated; either live by its simple words or seek to amend the Constitution. ;)
 
Helix said:
any issue that has the country so divided should not be settled by executive order. seems like they are floating the idea. my opinion is that the chances are very low that the EO idea actually reaches fruition. this is the administration putting chips on the table to indicate resolve on the issue.

should a gun control measure be passed by EO, the Democrats will face real challenges in upcoming elections. if I were a strategist, I would have strongly advised against even floating this idea. it harms the president's position more than it helps, because it plays into the opposition's stereotype, thereby giving them traction.
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if he goes through with it, by the mood of the country, you might have millions of gun owners refusing to comply.

They will be labelled terrorists under the NDAA, and people will support sending swat teams block by block collecting the guns...

We are talking about a potential situation that would make futur elections moot... Like Mao said, "political power comes from the barrel of a gun."
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

With the SCOTUS ruling not that long ago that overruled handgun bans, I don't see what Obama could possibly do that could be so major. He has executive privilege but he would still have to contend with the other branches.

I do believe in the Second Amendment and the function of a well armed population against tyranny. It's just hard for me to reconcile the era that the Constitution was made vs. what firearms are capable of in the modern world. Gun technology has changed a lot. If the U.S. government ever turned tyrannical and was able to retain loyalty of the military, I'm not sure what the general population could do. Tanks vs. guns? I dunno. I'm not saying that should be a reason to limit the Second Amendment, but is the population armed enough to really take on the government anyway? It seems like people who misuse guns would rather turn them on their fellow citizens and not the government.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Considering that a lot of "gun enthusiasts" tend to think that anything that doesn't conform to their very strict, limited interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, I suspect that many of you will decide he violated the Constitution even if he didn't.

In any case, if you guys decide to go crazy and become the criminals you guys claim you need weapons to defend yourselves against, it might actually be better for everyone else since all of you would be taken to jail and taken out of the voting pool. Hell, I've got my passport, so I don't mind leaving the country for a bit until things settle down.
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Thats funny, using the commerce clause and supremacy clause you can justify most anything as constitutional... Which is a violation of the intent of the constitution.

Remember, America wasnt falling apart when it was free....
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

ttwtt78640 said:
The portion of the post that I "like" is bolded. The rest is beyond strange, since "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is without question, while SSM is legal in some states and not in others, and is already on the SCOTUS docket in at least two forms/cases. If one can have a "strong preference" for partner gender then one can certainly have a "strong preference" for the type of firearm that they wish to keep and bear. The really strange thing is that a clearly stated individual right is even being debated; either live by its simple words or seek to amend the Constitution. ;)
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There's nothing strange about what I said. Goshin has said in the past that he's willing to dismiss people's rights because they too small to matter and now he's castigating that argument. It's hilarious irony in spite of any difference that the rights may have. :)
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

ThePlayDrive said:
There's nothing strange about what I said. Goshin has said in the past that he's willing to dismiss people's rights because they too small to matter and now he's castigating that argument. It's hilarious irony in spite of any difference that the rights may have. :)
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The points between you and Goshin not wothstanding, this thread is about 2A rights, not minority rights. The fact that states are allowed to mess with a universal individual right is BOTH of your points, that seem to be in agreement; that a state may not restrict a Constitutional right unless they can show a compelling state interest to do so and that is limitted to the least restrictive method. Whatever Obama has in mind will apply to ALL states, so even that argument is more like that goofy DOMA thing (which we all seem to agree is out of bounds, on both a Constitutional and/or a states a rights basis).
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

MaggieD said:
I agree with you. But it is a clear example of "never let a good crisis go to waste," as it is my understanding that automatic weapons didn't even play a part in the incident that's led us here.
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What automatic weapon are you talking about? Who has said anything about automatic weapons?

Now I'd have to raise an eyebrow on what sounds like a callous right wing apologist, the mass murder of 20 children who didn't have all their permanent teeth along with a half dozen of their educators strikes very deep in the hearts of many people who are not 'gun' banners.

Rather than a case of 'no good crisis going to waste' folks might be saying how many more 1st graders die before we say enough?
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

notquiteright said:
What automatic weapon are you talking about? Who has said anything about automatic weapons?

Now I'd have to raise an eyebrow on what sounds like a callous right wing apologist, the mass murder of 20 children who didn't have all their permanent teeth along with a half dozen of their educators strikes very deep in the hearts of many people who are not 'gun' banners.

Rather than a case of 'no good crisis going to waste' folks might be saying how many more 1st graders die before we say enough?
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Oh, stop. Your second paragraph doesn't even make any sense. If they pass legislation that requires guns be held in one's home in something more secure than a freakin' glass cabinet? Then this crisis will have produced something that just might stop some nutball.

Enough what? Until we decide it's time to protect our soft targets? I agree with you. Until we decide it's time to give parents a way to help their mentally ill childcren? I agree with you. Or, as some would suggest? Until we decide it's time to ban all guns? That, my fine feathered friend, is never going to happen.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

ttwtt78640 said:
The points between you and Goshin not wothstanding, this thread is about 2A rights, not minority rights. The fact that states are allowed to mess with a universal individual right is BOTH of your points, that seem to be in agreement; that a state may not restrict a Constitutional right unless they can show a compelling state interest to do so and that is limitted to the least restrictive method. Whatever Obama has in mind will apply to ALL states, so even that argument is more like that goofy DOMA thing (which we all seem to agree is out of bounds, on both a Constitutional and/or a states a rights basis).
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Actually, my only point was the Goshin's comment was laughably ironic.

In any case, yes, Obama may propose a federal law, whether or not it would be anything as ridiculous as DOMA is entirely speculation. And no, I don't think that "we all" agree that DOMA is out of bounds. That's the point.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

There is no basis for executive orders having any legitimacy, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't work.

I do not think there would be a rebellion. People would just go on the internet and bitch about it - which is nothing. But there could be more McVeighs created, which would be used to further outlaw guns. But anti-gun people like people dying to gain their agenda.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

MaggieD said:
Oh, stop. Your second paragraph doesn't even make any sense. If they pass legislation that requires guns be held in one's home in something more secure than a freakin' glass cabinet? Then this crisis will have produced something that just might stop some nutball.

Enough what? Until we decide it's time to protect our soft targets? I agree with you. Until we decide it's time to give parents a way to help their mentally ill childcren? I agree with you. Or, as some would suggest? Until we decide it's time to ban all guns? That, my fine feathered friend, is never going to happen.
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And hear I thought we were going to have an intelligent discussion, but you do the right wing rant of way over the top bull. You project crap to argue against. I never said ban all 'guns'. Never said only banning was the answer, did ask what automatic weapon YOU are talking about though... :confused:

I see many solutions to include hardening up the schools, more mental health screening and help for those who need it.

But what I also see is new restrictions on at the very least mag cap, sales per person per day, more oversight in private sales in public forums, gun shows.

You need to calm the hell down, my fine feathered friend... :peace
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

ThePlayDrive said:
Considering that a lot of "gun enthusiasts" tend to think that anything that doesn't conform to their very strict, limited interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, I suspect that many of you will decide he violated the Constitution even if he didn't.

In any case, if you guys decide to go crazy and become the criminals you guys claim you need weapons to defend yourselves against, it might actually be better for everyone else since all of you would be taken to jail and taken out of the voting pool. Hell, I've got my passport, so I don't mind leaving the country for a bit until things settle down.
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Whose going to take us to jail? Law Enforcement...the Military.... I think you will find we are some of the biggest supporters of gun rights and probably own a good portion of the guns.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

notquiteright said:
And hear I thought we were going to have an intelligent discussion, but you do the right wing rant of way over the top bull. You project crap to argue against. I never said ban all 'guns'. Never said only banning was the answer, did ask what automatic weapon YOU are talking about though... :confused:

I see many solutions to include hardening up the schools, more mental health screening and help for those who need it.

But what I also see is new restrictions on at the very least mag cap, sales per person per day, more oversight in private sales in public forums, gun shows.

You need to calm the hell down, my fine feathered friend... :peace
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Right wing rant? You ain't seen my right wing rant. No such thing here. I agree with most everything you've said in the restrictions department. So. What are we arguing about?
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Paratrooper said:
Whose going to take us to jail? Law Enforcement...the Military.... I think you will find we are some of the biggest supporters of gun rights and probably own a good portion of the guns.
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Dang! I wish I could remember who on DP said this, but paraphrased, the poster said: "When they come to my house to collect my guns, they'll get every one of them . . . ammunition first." Ha!
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Northern Light said:
. Tanks vs. guns? I dunno. I'm not saying that should be a reason to limit the Second Amendment, but is the population armed enough to really take on the government anyway? It seems like people who misuse guns would rather turn them on their fellow citizens and not the government.
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Doesn't matter. The size of government firepower has no bearing on our right to own and bear. We don't have a right, merely in order to assist the government in its time of need. It is an individual, not collective, right.

And yes, people who misuse them (called criminals) are much more likely to assault a fellow citizen than a large government. Pretty much makes sense.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

notquiteright said:
Now that the Conservatives can dance around a mass murder and declare I
told you Obama will do some anti-'gun' actions i guess some are taking smug satisfaction.

I don't seem to recall a great deal of calls to join the peacekeepers, protect the Constitution or some such when BushII worked his magic with executive orders and his signings basically exempting him from the bills he signed.

But this is now, I'd say lets wait until we see the whites of their eyes before going off half cocked.

Last term several senators declared much the same thing after a 'special' meeting with the President.

I think any 'gun-nut' who thinks nothing will be done isn't in this reality, there are Republican politicians calling for restrictions on some sales and some magazines.

People want something done.

But we shall see what actually is done.
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Its not the Conservatives whor'e are using the blood of 20 dead Children to push through gun legislation.

Cons dont do disgusting tasteless classless things like that.

From Obama's first speech it was politicized and the left keeps on trucking.
 
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