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Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard

Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

I disagree totally with using all these executive orders to get around congress. The teaparty is an obstructive pain in the butt and I disagree totally with them...but our process has always been DEAL WITH IT.
All the democrats that are wetting themselves with glee that obama is going to take guns or use the platinum coin ploy need to remember something....There will be more Republican Presidents and how are you going to like it when they do the same thing on issues your stone cold against ?...its always a two way street...theres pleasure an theres pain
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Taking in huge amounts of money, maintaining a very nice presence in DC, buying some of the best 'consultants' member money can buy, and accomplishing so little using so much and taking forever to do anything.

So....like the ACLU? NLRB?
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

A year ago this would have been a conspiracy theory since there was no evidence to support it. No one cvould have predicted the mass outcry by the public for something like this. Being right one time in a million is not something to take pride in.

His record in Illinois of trying to **** on the 2nd amendment is pretty good evidence that he would do the same thing as president.So idea that there was no evidence is a load of horse **** spewed by anti-2nd amendment crack pots lying their asses off that there was nothing to worry about.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

With the SCOTUS ruling not that long ago that overruled handgun bans, I don't see what Obama could possibly do that could be so major. He has executive privilege but he would still have to contend with the other branches.

I do believe in the Second Amendment and the function of a well armed population against tyranny. It's just hard for me to reconcile the era that the Constitution was made vs. what firearms are capable of in the modern world. Gun technology has changed a lot. If the U.S. government ever turned tyrannical and was able to retain loyalty of the military, I'm not sure what the general population could do.

Funny how that when the 2nd amendment was written our founders didn't go OH since the military and law enforcement have muskets you people shall be restricted to bows and arrows, crossbows, clubs,bladed weapons,fire arrows and etc.

Tanks vs. guns? I dunno. I'm not saying that should be a reason to limit the Second Amendment, but is the population armed enough to really take on the government anyway?

Tanks can be stopped with concertina wire and many other obstructions.Tanks also have a limited range,so their fuel source can be cut off.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Not making kneejerk emotional reactions to a tragedy, is something I've been advocating all along.

I cannot lay my finger on that article of the Constitution that gives the President, alone by Executive Order, the right to modify or limit part of the Bill of Rights.

And your last statement is in error. I have seen a lot of erosion of rights, not just the 2A, and that isn't the only thing I am passionate about though I admit it is ONE of my biggest issues yes.

You have in fact not. Gun rights are less restrictive now than they have been any time recently. And some one who claims to be neutral on some rights, and is actually against others, can't go and claim to be a big defender of right. At least I am consistent, and believe strongly in protecting rights, even when I do not like the outcome of that protection. Being willing to limit people's access to medical treatments(see abortion), but don't come after my gun, that is not consistently defending rights. Claiming to be neutral on the right to marry, but heaven help some one who is considering possibly, maybe limiting in some way that might even pass Supreme Court muster, and you are willing to declare your intent to ignore those laws(which there is no constitutional basis for you to be able to do)...that is not a consistent defense of rights, and kinda means you should not be crying about any "erosion of rights".
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Something like this will validate why the "preppers" do what they do.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Interesting, so not only are you jumping to conclusions, you are unqualified to judge based on the law itself. Well done!

Actually he is. According to the Supreme Court, all executive officers who swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution must therefore have direct access to the Constitution :). Goshin, as a Police Officer, and I, as a member of the Armed Forces, are not only allowed, we are required to refuse to enact any order which we perceive as violating the Constitution of the United States of America. Isn't Constitutional History neat? :)
 
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Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

I disagree totally with using all these executive orders to get around congress. The teaparty is an obstructive pain in the butt and I disagree totally with them...but our process has always been DEAL WITH IT.
All the democrats that are wetting themselves with glee that obama is going to take guns or use the platinum coin ploy need to remember something....There will be more Republican Presidents and how are you going to like it when they do the same thing on issues your stone cold against ?...its always a two way street...theres pleasure an theres pain

You know how President Obama passed a de facto Amnesty by ordering the Border Patrol to not use it's limited resources tracking down or arresting illegal aliens of a certain age etc?

Yeah, it's going to be interesting when President Fill-In-The-Blank decides to de facto alter the tax code by ordering the IRS not to use its limited resources tracking down or collecting capital gains taxes.

The Imperial Presidency is (I agree) a bipartisan problem.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

No Turtle, no one sees the death of 20 schoolkids who don't have all their permanent teeth as a benefit.

Yeah. No one out there that I can think of approaches tragic issues with the mindset of "you never want to let a crisis go to waste".
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Obama had better be mighty careful with that... there's a lot of us who will flat refuse to obey an Executive Order than violates the Constitution.

I would refuse to obey this one. I don't know if I would go full rogue, but I would definitely refuse to obey the law.

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping he doesn't do something ill-considered that provokes something drastic... but that EO could easily create tens of thousands of Tim McVeigh's ready to declare armed revolt.

Yup. The really crappy part is, it's going to put alot of people in the middle. The average cop doesn't want to become part of a low-level counterinsurgency. He's just a middle class guy trying to protect people from criminals and take care of his family. Now some clown in Washington has made him a political target in a cause he probably has sympathy for.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Lets just use the executive order to pass law!

Executive orders are constitutional aren't they?
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

They are not the ones threatening to break the law if they don't like it, you are.

He wasn't threatening to disobey any law. He was threatening to disobey an executive order. The President does not have the authority to unilaterally enact a law. He can only sign a bill into law that is passed by Congress.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

With the SCOTUS ruling not that long ago that overruled handgun bans, I don't see what Obama could possibly do that could be so major. He has executive privilege but he would still have to contend with the other branches.

I do believe in the Second Amendment and the function of a well armed population against tyranny. It's just hard for me to reconcile the era that the Constitution was made vs. what firearms are capable of in the modern world. Gun technology has changed a lot. If the U.S. government ever turned tyrannical and was able to retain loyalty of the military, I'm not sure what the general population could do. Tanks vs. guns? I dunno. I'm not saying that should be a reason to limit the Second Amendment, but is the population armed enough to really take on the government anyway? It seems like people who misuse guns would rather turn them on their fellow citizens and not the government.

A big part of your dilemma stems from the assumption that a tyrannical government would retain the loyalty of the military. The military is not some big, monolithic mindless machine under the government's control. It consists of a very large number of individual American citizens, every one of which has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution and to defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I think it's a safe bet that a very large proportion of these individuals would, if it came to that—a tyrannical government handing down orders to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow Americans, and to make war against their fellow Americans—would understand what their true duty is in accordance with that oath, and act to fulfill that duty.

I wonder if the SS would be able to protect the President against what he thought was his own military. Of course, the SS also consists of citizens who have taken that same oath, and under the circumstances being described, may very well also choose to obey that oath.
 
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Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

I would refuse to obey this one. I don't know if I would go full rogue, but I would definitely refuse to obey the law.

As I said before, an executive order is not a law. You would not be disobeying the law by disobeying an executive order. In fact, if that order was to do something illegal or unconstitutional, then you would be disobeying the law if you were to obey such an order.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

As I said before, an executive order is not a law. You would not be disobeying the law by disobeying an executive order. In fact, if that order was to do something illegal or unconstitutional, then you would be disobeying the law if you were to obey such an order.

For members of the Executive Branch, it is law. It is simply a lower form of law to the Supreme Law of the Land.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

He wasn't threatening to disobey any law. He was threatening to disobey an executive order. The President does not have the authority to unilaterally enact a law. He can only sign a bill into law that is passed by Congress.

Executive orders have the full force of law: Executive Orders and Proclamations - Wikisource, the free online library

Actually he is. According to the Supreme Court, all executive officers who swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution must therefore have direct access to the Constitution :). Goshin, as a Police Officer, and I, as a member of the Armed Forces, are not only allowed, we are required to refuse to enact any order which we perceive as violating the Constitution of the United States of America. Isn't Constitutional History neat? :)

Actually, you better guess right in those situations. If you guess wrong, you are a criminal. It is taking a huge risk based on a desire to retain something trivial.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Executive orders are constitutional aren't they?

They are. But they can only apply to members of the Executive Branch. For example, the President could say "all executive branch civil servants shall wear the color blue". He couldn't say "all citizens shall wear blue".
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Actually, you better guess right in those situations. If you guess wrong, you are a criminal. It is taking a huge risk based on a desire to retain something trivial.

Second Amendment =/= Trivial. And yeah, there is good reason why we say that you'd better dang well be sure.


You know, President Wilson once ordered the Marines who guard the White House to go ransack the offices and beat up the editor of a paper who criticized him. To their everlasting credit, they refused - and so their story is told to every recruit who goes through boot camp.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Second Amendment =/= Trivial. And yeah, there is good reason why we say that you'd better dang well be sure.


You know, President Wilson once ordered the Marines who guard the White House to go ransack the offices and beat up the editor of a paper who criticized him. To their everlasting credit, they refused - and so their story is told to every recruit who goes through boot camp.

I did not say the second amendment was trivial. That is not the issue. You can protest the second amendment issue equally well with or without whatever guns or hardware would be deemed illegal. The only r4eason to disobey would be a desire to hold onto that hardware, and that reason is trivial.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

A big part of your dilemma stems from the assumption that a tyrannical government would retain the loyalty of the military. The military is not some big, monolithic mindless machine under the government's control. It consists of a very large number of individual American citizens, every one of which has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution and to defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I think it's a safe bet that a very large proportion of these individuals would, if it came to that—a tyrannical government handing down orders to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow Americans, and to make war against their fellow Americans—would understand what their true duty is in accordance with that oath, and act to fulfill that duty.

I wonder if the SS would be able to protect the President against what he thought was his own military. Of course, the SS also consists of citizens who have taken that same oath, and under the circumstances being described, may very well also choose to obey that oath.

Good post. I think that if the government tries infringing on our rights, then they have become a hostile domestic enemy of the people of the United States. I'm sure there are PLENTY of military members who would fight to defend the Constitution and our rights.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Executive orders have the full force of law.

If you are going to claim that, then show me the text in the Constitution that gives the President the authority to unilaterally create law.

The Constitution is rather explicitly clear about how laws are created. The President does not have the authority to do so on his own, period. It is Congress that creates bills, which the President may then sign into law. This is a representative republic, after all, not a kingdom.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Orders' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard
Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standard
That's if the other ten or so anti-gun bills don't pass obama will make an executive order...
Just a note, this would have been called "conspiracy theory" just a year ago.
Wtf do you think he can actually do w/ an executive order?

He can set policy for the departments of the executive branch. What policy can he set that will be the equivalent of the doom-criers hysteria?

Just hypothetically, what's the worst he can do via executive order?
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

Given the hysterics I see on DP, I'd have to disagree.
IME, DP is not a representative sample of the country. We tend to be more "concerned" about various things than the rest of the country.
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

my opinion is that the chances are very low that the EO idea actually reaches fruition.
What is the proposed EO?
 
Re: Biden: Obama Considering 'Executive Order' to Deal With Guns | The Weekly Standar

they won't be able to save the politicians who cause it nor will they be able to save those who called for the gun bans that start it

most of us aren't going to fight the military. its those who give the orders to round up gun owners we will target

and those who support such order givers
Do you really believe second amendment protects your right to attack the government and kill elected officials? Really? That would be kinda stupid for a government to put that in writting, doncha think?

Goshin claims the country is in a state of mass hysteria and yet so far, only you and him have alluded to violence if you don't get your way. Oh and the emotional outrage of "raping" you of your rights ...pleeeeeeze you don't even know what the executive order is yet. Hysteria, indeed.
 
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