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Health care law may mean less hiring in 2013

TaraAnne said:
Hmmmm lets see we could have used the Bush Tax cuts, the two unpaid for wars, and the doughnut hole that were unpaid for to get it done! I find it funny that so called conservatives always want thing s paid for unless it a big corporate give away, a war, or something to do with God.
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Liberals are funny, we have one of those unpaid for wars going on yet after 4 years of liberal control, those so called Bush tax cuts could have ended in 2010 but the liberals decided to extend them, and now we still have over “half” of the so called Bush tax cuts still in place.

As usual to liberals these things don’t matter, because they were done and are being done by one of their own.
 
The short sightedness of some is amazing, we have SS, Medicare, and Medicate all controlled and ran by the government. These three programs only take care of about 15% of our population. All three programs are in serious trouble, and the rates have more then doubled since their inception.

Now there are some that are somehow convinced that we can create a government program that will cover 100% of the citizens of our country, and expect it to achieve a different result. Can any remember in 1965 the government estimated Medicare would cost 9 billion in 1990 the actual cost in 1990 was 67 billion. This is a program that today covers less then 15% of our population.

U.S. health plans have history of cost overruns - Washington Times

Now consider a program designed to cover 100% of the population, and what will happen to our health care if those numbers are underestimated by a like amount.

Now I have another question for those of you that rail against insurance companies, if there is so much profit to be made in health care insurance, why haven’t more major employers gone self insured ? Why haven’t major unions started insurance companies self insuring their members ? Couldn’t they offer their members insurance at a greatly reduced rate, and still be making millions in profits ?? There has got to be a reason that they haven’t self insured . I can’t be convinced that a major industrial employer, or any of the major unions wouldn’t or couldn’t self insure and save millions of dollars in health care insurance costs.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
PPACA is often said to grant "universal access to health care". I realize that is not absolutely equating PPACA and UHC, but far too often the words universal and PPACA appear in close proximity, this is no mere accident - the implication is quite clear.
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Universal access, not UHC.


Above quote taken from: Column - Access, affordability and health care reform - Opinion - The Daily Athenaeum - West Virginia University
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The quote says expand and not provide.




Above quote taken from: Risk & Insurance Online - What Impact Will PPACA Have on Workers' Compensation?
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The same here. From your link: Health reform will significantly increase the total amount of individuals with health insurance coverage which, in turn, should significantly increase the number of people seeking treatment.


Above quote taken from: Obama Wins: The Morning After–Prospects for the PPACA (aka Obamacare) | SpringBoard
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[/QUOTE]

Now you try to use a blogger spouting his opinion as something universally accepted?
 
The Barbarian said:
yeah, and you supported obama correct? Therefore you agree with everything he does, including the drone attacks ?? If not then I see the same problem with you
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Look up logical fallacies. You need to become more familiar with them. Your statement is quite illogical.
 
Boo Radley said:
Look up logical fallacies. You need to become more familiar with them. Your statement is quite illogical.
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Or in very simple terms ... what you say about someone else doesn't apply to you ... I understand you fully
 
Dwight said:
To be clear, I don’t think implementing it (or getting it even
passed as law) would be ’simple’ and setting aside your BS “fundamental premise of every blah blah blah” assertion:

For a replacement that gets the job done at less expense that want it is replacing, given the levying powers afforded a government, the issue of how to pay for the replacement system tends to provide the solution itself when approached with a clear, rational head, and without malice in heart, and with the understanding that eventually you pay to get that job done (or pay for it not getting done) one way or another.
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Wow....honestly dude, my brain doesn't function that way. I guess it's from the last 3 decades of troubleshooting everything from industrial power quality problems to PCB boards and in between.

Approaching an issue with only good intentions and a kind demeanor will earn you about 3 seconds in my industry but then we'll need some results that are derived from, Yes, a clear rational head and years of knowledge and experience based on principles that are based on empirical data.

Its like my customer dropping off a glitchy PLC and the first thing I do is turn off my Oscilloscope , throw it on my bench and then hope the sitiation rectifies itself because I have kind, good intentions.

Hey what if it was a toasted SCR ( Silicon Controlled Rectifier ) ? That would be ironic.

We don't have to wonder anymore, you realize that right ? You want to impliment Single Payer do the math and then justify your assertion thats its feasable.

Otherwise your assertion that the replacemnt will provide the solution is extremely dubious. You might pass that off on the low information Obama voter but it's a big joke to me.
 
Fenton said:
Wow....honestly dude, my brain doesn't function that way. I guess it's from the last 3 decades of troubleshooting everything from industrial power quality problems to PCB boards and in between.

Approaching an issue with only good intentions and a kind demeanor will earn you about 3 seconds in my industry but then we'll need some results that are derived from, Yes, a clear rational head and years of knowledge and experience based on principles that are based on empirical data.

Its like my customer dropping off a glitchy PLC and the first thing I do is turn off my Oscilloscope , throw it on my bench and then hope the sitiation rectifies itself because I have kind, good intentions.

Hey what if it was a toasted SCR ( Silicon Controlled Rectifier ) ? That would be ironic.

We don't have to wonder anymore, you realize that right ? You want to impliment Single Payer do the math and then justify your assertion thats its feasable.

Otherwise your assertion that the replacemnt will provide the solution is extremely dubious. You might pass that off on the low information Obama voter but it's a big joke to me.
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Hey! If it sounds good, fair and logical then how could our wise gov't possibly screw it up? We have had a war on poverty, a war on drugs and a war on terror; each funded with trillions of tax dollars and they were all won! It seems a cinch that a gov't run UHC system would work nearly flawlessly and would save untold amounts of pain, suffering and money. Lets give our congress critters more "access" to our paychecks and see if it doesn't get much better right away! /s
 
Boo Radley said:
Look up logical fallacies. You need to become more familiar with them.
Your statement is quite illogical.
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LOL...

This post from you is a riot..
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Hey! If it sounds good, fair and logical then how could our wise gov't possibly
screw it up? We have had a war on poverty, a war on drugs and a war on terror; each funded with trillions of tax dollars and they were all won! It seems a cinch that a gov't run UHC system would work nearly flawlessly and would save untold amounts of pain, suffering and money. Lets give our congress critters more "access" to our paychecks and see if it doesn't get much better right away! /s
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Lol...

Liberals are known for that. Only their good intentions and nothing else should factor into the implementation of a destructive program.

Not IF it fails but WHEN it fails, they'll just blame it on Bush.
 
Fenton said:
Lol...

Liberals are known for that. Only their good intentions and nothing else should factor into the implementation of a destructive program.

Not IF it fails but WHEN it fails, they'll just blame it on Bush.
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:lol: :doh They are already doing it. I read an enormous number of posts stating that, while flawed (not perfect?), the PPACA is a step in the right direction but should be replaced by, transformed into or amended to... :roll:
 
Fenton said:
Wow....honestly dude, my brain doesn't function that way. I guess it’s from the last 3 decades of troubleshooting everything from industrial power quality problems to PCB boards and in between.
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Protip/PSA from an Electronic/Computer degree guy and one-time electrician: Use the insulated pliers next time. Seriously, those electric shocks will, and I guess have, messed up your cognitive wiring. :(
We don’t have to wonder anymore, you realize that right ? You want to implement Single Payer do the math and then justify your assertion thats its feasible.
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There a number of different models around the world, with different minimum level of care, that showing single payer insurance and even full co-opting of the health care industry providing substantially better cost/benefit ratio than the US. *shrug*

I personally do not think that Britain’s system, for example, is much of a match of the US. I do not think it plays to some serious strengths of this country, and is far to large a stretch philosophically. *shrug* But there are places and opportunities well this side of that.

Now if you think so little of this country that you do not expect we could pull it off, that we are such a pile of f-ups that we cannot put together something that works? That we just could not get our act together enough to pull it off if we put our minds to it? Well, I suppose we do have Negative Nelly naysayers like you that could drag us down with self-fulfilling doomsaying. But on the balance I think better of this country than that.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Hey! If it sounds good, fair and logical then
how could our wise gov't possibly screw it up? We have had a war on poverty, a war on drugs and a war on terror; each funded with trillions of tax dollars and they were all won! It seems a cinch that a gov't run UHC system would work nearly flawlessly and would save untold amounts of pain, suffering and money. Lets give our congress critters more "access" to our paychecks and see if it doesn't get much better right away! /s
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Dwight said:
Protip/PSA from an Electronic/Computer degree guy and one-time electrician: Use the insulated pliers next time. Seriously, those electric shocks will, and I guess have, messed up your cognitive wiring. :(

There a number of different models around the world, with different minimum level of care, that showing single payer insurance and even full co-opting of the health care industry providing substantially better cost/benefit ratio than the US. *shrug*

I personally do not think that Britain’s system, for example, is much of a match of the US. I do not think it plays to some serious strengths of this country, and is far to large a stretch philosophically. *shrug* But there are places and opportunities well this side of that.

Now if you think so little of this country that you do not expect we could pull it off, that we are such a pile of f-ups that we cannot put together something that works? That we just could not get our act together enough to pull it off if we put our minds to it? Well, I suppose we do have Negative Nelly naysayers like you that could drag us down with self-fulfilling doomsaying. But on the balance I think better of this country than that.
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Insulated pliers with low voltage manufactured DC waveforms ?

Insulated pliers when trying to tune out PID loops in closed loop control applications or doing signal analysis on harmonic feedback ?

Insulated pliers when injecting saw tooth wave forms into the base of a signal transistor or for saturating an isolation trsnsformer ?

Me thinks you know not what your talking about but hey you were an "electrician"

I've got respect for any working man but your average electricisn can barely. stumble through ohms law let alone set up the span adjustments on a nice tectronix o-scope.

As for health care you were convinced by someone that Govt was the only answer.

They misled you and for me to support any massive shift away from the private sector I need to see objective data, not Democrat lies ?
 
Fenton said:
Insulated pliers with low voltage manufactured DC waveforms ?

Insulated pliers when trying to tune out PID loops in closed loop control applications or doing signal analysis on harmonic feedback ?

Insulated pliers when injecting saw tooth wave forms into the base of a signal transistor or for saturating an isolation trsnsformer ?
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You said “industrial power quality problems”. That implies at least coming close to serious, cook-your-beans voltage+amps+Hz-that-like-flesh. I am just being nice ;) trying to come up with some plausible excuse for your near illiteracy, such as…
Me thinks you know not what your talking about but hey you were an “electrician”

I’ve got respect for any working man but your average electricisn can barely. stumble through ohms law let alone set up the span adjustments on a nice tectronix o-scope.
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“Electronic/Computer degree guy”. Including process control systems at one point (petrochemical largely) but I moved more into software over time.
As for health care you were convinced by someone that Govt was the only answer.
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I said no such thing, how ever I am convinced that:
1) the US system as it is horribly inefficient, by comparison to what has been implement elsewhere
2) that you are entirely off base in your assertions against a government option
3) that, hope and wish as you might, any particular solution that is going to bring about significant improvement is going to require some sort of change in government
They misled you and for me to support any massive shift away from the private sector I need to see objective data, not Democrat lies ?
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Umm, I already pointed you in the direction of models to study. Unless you are convinced that everything outside the US borders are “Democrat lies”? At which point I would need to leave you to your tin foil hat and cat herds… :lamo
 
ttwtt78640 said:
:lol: :doh They are already doing it. I read an enormous number of posts stating that, while flawed (not perfect?), the PPACA is a step in the right direction but should be replaced by, transformed into or amended to... :roll:
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Yes, it should be. The public option would be a serious improvement. And if we really want meaningful reform, UHC.
 
Boo Radley said:
Yes, it should be. The public option would be a serious improvement. And if we really want meaningful reform, UHC.
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"Meaningful reform" means more government involvement, I suppose.

What could possibly go wrong there?
 
Grant said:
"Meaningful reform" means more government involvement, I suppose.

What could possibly go wrong there?
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It means actually having a system. I think I've mentioned many times what I favor.
 
Boo Radley said:
It means actually having a system. I think I've mentioned many times what I favor.
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There has always been a "system", but it's a matter of having the best one.

Americans will learn there lesson in a few years but by then it will be entrenched and impossible to change.
 
Grant said:
There has always been a "system", but it's a matter of having the best one.

Americans will learn there lesson in a few years but by then it will be entrenched and impossible to change.
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No, it's pretty ad hoc here. Can you tell me, for example, if what is passed on from those who don't pay to those who pay is equal to what passing on actually costs providers?

Americans have been for this lack of a system for a long, long time. Whatever follows won't be perfect, but you'd be hard pressed to do worse than we do in terms of cost and access.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, it's pretty ad hoc here. Can you tell me, for example, if what is passed on from those who don't pay to those who pay is equal to what passing on actually costs providers?

Americans have been for this lack of a system for a long, long time. Whatever follows won't be perfect, but you'd be hard pressed to do worse than we do in terms of cost and access.
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It will be much worse and the direction the government should have gone in was more freedom of choice, more competition, not less. But the government, especially this one, is all about control. Now they have it, and you don't. You will learn later.
 
Fenton said:
You guys elected....TWICE...the least qualified ex-stoner candidate who came into office with a anti-America chip on his shoulder.
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He's at least as qualified as the ex-coke head candidate who came into office with an anti-Republic chip on his shoulder, grew the government at phenomenal rates, exploded debt, started undeclared occupational wars in foreign lands, etc. We elected that guy twice 2. So seems like we're just par for the course.
 
Dwight said:
You said “industrial power quality problems”. That implies at
least coming close to serious, cook-your-beans voltage+amps+Hz-that-like-flesh. I am just being nice ;) trying to come up with some plausible excuse for your near illiteracy, such as…

“Electronic/Computer degree guy”. Including process control systems at one point (petrochemical largely) but I moved more into software over time.

I said no such thing, how ever I am convinced that:
1) the US system as it is horribly inefficient, by comparison to what has been implement elsewhere
2) that you are entirely off base in your assertions against a government option
3) that, hope and wish as you might, any particular solution that is going to bring about significant improvement is going to require some sort of change in government

Umm, I already pointed you in the direction of models to study. Unless you are convinced that everything outside the US borders are “Democrat lies”? At which point I would need to leave you to your tin foil hat and cat herds… :lamo
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Why would I need insulated pliers to analyze 3 phase power quality issues ? Which is just part of what I do.

If I'm "illiterate" please explain why ? Personally it sounds like you took the easy road and went into software and "computers".

I agree, not everyone has the base IQ to wind up at a test bench where your day is spent troubleshooting discreet and analog compound electronic circuits and building test devices for specific applications on the fly.

Rabid Alpaca's another electronics guru on this sight.

Lemme' guess, you think like so many we reverse engineered some space craft in the 50's and thats led to our current technological condition.

Even when prior to solid state, TUBES basically served the same function as transistors.

Because you have yet to provide any data that would support the viabillity of single payer.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, it's pretty ad hoc here. Can you tell me, for example, if what is passed on from those who don't pay to those who pay is equal to what passing on actually costs providers?

Americans have been for this lack of a system for a long, long time. Whatever follows won't be perfect, but you'd be hard pressed to do worse than we do in terms of cost and access.
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What are you talking about? If I want a pack of hot dogs, I go to (access) the store and buy (pay the cost of) those hot dogs. If I want a cut stitched up, I go to (access) the clinic/hospital and buy (pay the cost of) treatment. The nonsense is now that if you cannot (or simply will not) pay the cost of a good/service that is deemed to be "denying you access" to that good/service. Pure BS, as you are never turned away from the source (denied access) you are simply not allowed to steal (get goods/services for free). Unlike the hot dogs, that one gets "free" by applying for a SNAP card, the stitches are "free" by gov't mandate in the ER or now with the added cost of "private" insurance overhead and profit. It is just plain lying, that adding PPACA mandated insurance overhead and profit to already "free" care is going to save any money (cost) or add any access.
 
Ikari said:
He's at least as qualified as the ex-coke head candidate who came into office with an anti-Republic chip on his shoulder, grew the government at phenomenal rates, exploded debt, started undeclared occupational wars in foreign lands, etc. We elected that guy twice 2. So seems like we're just par for the course.
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Bush started undeclared wars ? The one's he got Congressional approval for ? And ex-coke head is a little low. you have any proof ?
 
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