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Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?

Adjusted for inflation, the national debt fell under Clinton, though not significantly.

I see no reason to "pay the debt down" at any time, provided that I am assuming by this you mean actually pay it off or pay it down significantly. Why would we need to?

I don't mean "pay it off". We're talking 16+ Trillion dollars so paying it off isn't going to happen any time soon....unless we inflate the hell out of the dollar.

We need to start paying the debt down to show both ourselves and the rest of the people we want to invest in this country that we can manage ourselves financially. The key to a fiat currency is confidence and if that confidence erodes we are totally screwed.
 
I don't mean "pay it off". We're talking 16+ Trillion dollars so paying it off isn't going to happen any time soon....unless we inflate the hell out of the dollar.

We need to start paying the debt down to show both ourselves and the rest of the people we want to invest in this country that we can manage ourselves financially. The key to a fiat currency is confidence and if that confidence erodes we are totally screwed.

The gov needs to do both reduce spending and increase taxes but at a nominal pace. Only then will the markets be convinced that we're seriously addressing our debt and credit problem. Another trend that needs to be understood is that the people likely to spend the most retail wise and boost the economic growth need access to the cash to do that, otherwise more jobs and better salaries. If that doesn't happen we will be locked into a slow to no growth pattern indefinitely.
 
The gov needs to do both reduce spending and increase taxes but at a nominal pace. Only then will the markets be convinced that we're seriously addressing our debt and credit problem. Another trend that needs to be understood is that the people likely to spend the most retail wise and boost the economic growth need access to the cash to do that, otherwise more jobs and better salaries. If that doesn't happen we will be locked into a slow to no growth pattern indefinitely.

I would agree but only with the caveat that the spending cuts happen first. We need to show that we have a fiscally viable plan to get things under control before we raise taxes specifically for the purpose of paying the debt down. Furthermore, once we get ourselves into a positive cash flow situation we need to make sure that any excess revenues collected go to paying down the debt first. Doing so simply saves us interest.
 
I would agree but only with the caveat that the spending cuts happen first. We need to show that we have a fiscally viable plan to get things under control before we raise taxes specifically for the purpose of paying the debt down. Furthermore, once we get ourselves into a positive cash flow situation we need to make sure that any excess revenues collected go to paying down the debt first. Doing so simply saves us interest.

I would agree with this except some of the biggest cuts shouldn't be directed at those with the least ability to shoulder the burden. That's not only unpalatable but it's also not fair to let the shrewdest in society benefit the most. I think the gov has always over taxed, especially businesses and should reduce in size as a way to cut spending. I hear all the time how much gov wastes but nothing ever gets done to reduce size and waste.
 
Republicans were calling for the issue of a trillion dollar platninum coin when they were in power? Can you provid a link to that?


Thats not what I was saying...I was saying republican potus raised the debt ceilings.. and I cant remember in my 65 y rs a more obsructing house ever....so the coin thing isnt as unreasonable as it would be if we didnt have such unreal partisan teapartiers just obstucting anything they can
 
Thats not what I was saying...I was saying republican potus raised the debt ceilings.. and I cant remember in my 65 y rs a more obsructing house ever....so the coin thing isnt as unreasonable as it would be if we didnt have such unreal partisan teapartiers just obstucting anything they can

Not sure what you are claiming. But you were responding to my comment that, as congressional approval for the design of the coin would be necessary, the republicans can be the adults and stop it from ever being printed. Only a child would truly think that just printing a trilion dollar coin or two would make any economic sense.

But, more specifically to your point... Has it been as obstructing in the past? Shrug. There are a lot of reason why things are different now then in the past. Including the size of the current financial mess, the fact that both parties are more partisan due to gerrymandering, etc...

However, democrats have complained and voted against debt celing increases when republicans are in powe - they just didn't have the necessry votes, but they tried. Just as the current republicans are complaining and planning on voting against debt ceiling increases while Obama is in power. So, this is hardly anything new. It's just one party trying to ignore the past and talk a good game, often with assistance from the media.

For example:

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure,” he said. “It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.” He did. It passed narrowly – by a vote of 52-48.

Obama 2006 vs. Obama January 2011 vs. Obama April 2011 on the Debt Ceiling - ABC News

Back in 2006, I recall the media was really concerned about the spending and were on teh side of bringing the costs or, probably more liekly increasing taxes. NOw, not so much.>> Now it's all republicans fault for not just going along.
 
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WTF good is a "trillion dollar coin?" Seriously, is this something that can be "spent?" Can anyone, or anything even afford one of these things? Our own freaking government can't afford them (since we are nose-deep in debt). Why not just write the word "trillion" on a freaking cocktail napkin? That and the stupid coin would be worth the same thing. Jesus, I swear our government has the intellectual capabilities of a grade-school schoolyard sometimes.
 
WTF good is a "trillion dollar coin?" Seriously, is this something that can be "spent?" Can anyone, or anything even afford one of these things? Our own freaking government can't afford them (since we are nose-deep in debt). Why not just write the word "trillion" on a freaking cocktail napkin? That and the stupid coin would be worth the same thing. Jesus, I swear our government has the intellectual capabilities of a grade-school schoolyard sometimes.

I have talked recently to a college professor that teaches Macroeconomics and money is now referred to as a "medium of exchange" and you can forget about Goldsmiths and real backed money forever. I presume it is part of a scheme to default without seeming to default, as when Greece was forgiven $70 billion of its' debt but it was not called default. Greece didn't pay the debt in default and it was labelled forgiven debt and because it was not a default AIG did not have to back its credit default swap. There is a lot of skullduggery going on in the current world's "monies." Don't use that monies term too precisely.
 
Haven't we seen this sort of foolishness before? Weimar anyone?
 
Massive inflation would solve our debt problem the same way hacking off your foot would fix a ingrown toe nail. Tax increases, spending cuts or even increasing the debt to GDP ratio all have consequences, but they are still better than hyperinflation. Who can point to a single historical example where a nation fixed their economy by inflating their problems away?
 
Inflation I believe is inevitable. You can't artificially keep interest rates low in order to hold down interest payments on the debt indefinitely.
 
Inflation I believe is inevitable. You can't artificially keep interest rates low in order to hold down interest payments on the debt indefinitely.

The only difference between the pain felt at the end of the '70s, and early 80's as a result of Carter's foolishness, is that the mi-lase felt will be put off until it can be blamed on a Republican Presidential administration...So, in a way, demo's/progressives learned, not that their policies failed, but rather how to do them and shift the blame. How sad for us.
 
The only difference between the pain felt at the end of the '70s, and early 80's as a result of Carter's foolishness, is that the mi-lase felt will be put off until it can be blamed on a Republican Presidential administration...So, in a way, demo's/progressives learned, not that their policies failed, but rather how to do them and shift the blame. How sad for us.

This economic cycle is probably going to be much worse than the 70's and I doubt anyone will escape blame.
 
Not sure what you are claiming. But you were responding to my comment that, as congressional approval for the design of the coin would be necessary, the republicans can be the adults and stop it from ever being printed. Only a child would truly think that just printing a trilion dollar coin or two would make any economic sense.

But, more specifically to your point... Has it been as obstructing in the past? Shrug. There are a lot of reason why things are different now then in the past. Including the size of the current financial mess, the fact that both parties are more partisan due to gerrymandering, etc...

However, democrats have complained and voted against debt celing increases when republicans are in powe - they just didn't have the necessry votes, but they tried. Just as the current republicans are complaining and planning on voting against debt ceiling increases while Obama is in power. So, this is hardly anything new. It's just one party trying to ignore the past and talk a good game, often with assistance from the media.

For example:



Obama 2006 vs. Obama January 2011 vs. Obama April 2011 on the Debt Ceiling - ABC News

Back in 2006, I recall the media was really concerned about the spending and were on teh side of bringing the costs or, probably more liekly increasing taxes. NOw, not so much.>> Now it's all republicans fault for not just going along.

Buck this doesnt take mile long posts...just a simple statement...the debt ceiling will be raised...just like all other presidents have always done of either persuasion.
 
Buck this doesnt take mile long posts...just a simple statement...the debt ceiling will be raised...just like all other presidents have always done of either persuasion.

Maybe just maybe, that is the problem.

I keep hearing today how raising the debt ceiling is ensuring that we continue to pay for what has already been spent. That is insane. Is there ANYONE in here that would take one of their credit cards and use it to pay for what they have racked up on the others? And would they do that if the agreement was that their children had to pay for what they did when it blew up?
 
I hope they use Obama's face on the coin.

That way, when our society collapses under the weight of its own debt and entitlement obligations, everyone will know who's fault it was.
 
I hope they use Obama's face on the coin.

That way, when our society collapses under the weight of its own debt and entitlement obligations, everyone will know who's fault it was.

I want one, if not only to see if there is chocolate inside.....:lol:
 
Maybe just maybe, that is the problem.

I keep hearing today how raising the debt ceiling is ensuring that we continue to pay for what has already been spent. That is insane. Is there ANYONE in here that would take one of their credit cards and use it to pay for what they have racked up on the others? And would they do that if the agreement was that their children had to pay for what they did when it blew up?

Im sure it is the problem...the problem was created by entitlements to the rich...now they want more.
 
Im sure it is the problem...the problem was created by entitlements to the rich...now they want more.

I don't think that blaming a sector of our society that not only pays the lion share of federal taxes collected, but drives the economy with jobs creation, while giving a pass to nearly half the country that pays nothing in is the way to go....Socialism doesn't work.
 
Can anybody make change for me? Large unmarked bills if possible....


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Buck this doesnt take mile long posts...just a simple statement...the debt ceiling will be raised...just like all other presidents have always done of either persuasion.

I typically don't tell the future. It may be raised. But, as the topic of the op and the post of mine you responded to, I am certain it will not be due to the printing of a trillion dollar coin. The republican's will not allow that to occur. In other words, they will play the adult in this scenario.
 
Everyone says the trillion dollar coin is like a default or raising a 5% tax on every dollar spent. It's true that devaluing the dollar in the short term with this de facto default would set the books right for years to come but you'd have to watch out for the market reaction. They know it just means Congress has no intention of cutting spending, shrinking gov or increasing revenues and as usual it would affect average to low income spenders more then the cushioned elite.
The trillion dollar coin technique is very much NOT a “default”, de facto or otherwise. In practical, functional economic and government financial terms is the same thing as raising the debt ceiling. The only [potential] difference is in legal terms. EDIT: And political terms because of bypassing the House (well Congress as a whole but largely the House).
 
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I typically don't tell the future. It may be raised. But, as the topic of the op and the post of mine you responded to, I am certain it will not be due to the printing of a trillion dollar coin. The republican's will not allow that to occur. In other words, they will play the adult in this scenario.
That there is as an actual question of whether or not to pay for plans laid out in legislation already passed is being used the way it is already takes them out of the “adult in the scenario” running. :(
 
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