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Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?

Lol... You guys loaded that revolver with 5 bullets instead of one, spun the cylinder and pulled the trigfer TWICE.

And the result doesn't seem to have made you guys any less informed.

I guess zero is always zero.

You're trying to justify a endless debt with low yield bonds because you dont have the objectivity to realize your mesiah put us here.

No revenues, higher taxes, no growth and a shrinking economy and your solution ?

Unbelievable.

This is your failure because I didn't vote for this leftist idiot.

The debt debate is proof positive your guy, your ideology and everything it represents has failed miserably.

If congress didn't want to raise the debt ceiling then it shouldn't have passed appropriations bills that require it. Either vote for both or vote for neither. It's stupid to support a budget then oppose raising the funds to enact it. I think everyone can agree on that point.
 
Apples, oranges and now bananas.
Um. Well if you have a hard time with reading comprehension and keeping it all straight, which seems the case given that you are unable to process the basic information of the most minimal pages that you link to…not my issue.
 
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If congress didn't want to raise the debt ceiling
then it shouldn't have passed appropriations bills that require it. Either vote for both or vote for neither. It's stupid to support a budget then oppose raising the funds to enact it. I think everyone can agree on that point.

What budget ?

And exactly WHY do we need an ever increading debt ?
 
The appropriations bills that have been
financing the government since 2011 and the last debt ceiling fiasco.
Not a budget and you know it. Just a legislative device to allow perpetual spending.

Again, why do we need a ever increasing debt ?
 
Not a budget and you know it.
It is as good a stand in shorthand as any in the context he used it.

Try it, place those words “[t]he appropriations bills that have been financing the government since 2011 and the last debt ceiling fiasco” in the sentence in which he used the word budget.

It makes even more sense toward the point than just a plain old ‘budget’.
 
I was gona do some fancy math and see how big the platinum coin would have to be in order to be worth a $1T but it turns out that Platinum is worth slightly less than gold: Live Gold, Silver, Platinum, Palladium Quote Spot Price Chart - Kitco

Platinum, and even palladium, is the wrong material. I think the President is looking for a $1T coin made of Unobtainium.
To mint two $1T coins using market value amounts of gold would require, roughly, 20% of all the gold ever mined.

P.S. That is a fundamental problem that people urging a return to the gold standard do not, I think, realize. The world has simply outgrown gold.

EDIT: Incidentally I am not certain if $2T worth of platinum has been mined, in total?
 
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Not a budget and you know it. Just a legislative device to allow perpetual spending.

Again, why do we need a ever increasing debt ?

Sure the appropriations bills aren't a budget in the legal sense (i.e. legally speaking there hasn't been a budget for a few years now) but in the informal sense they are budgeting Federal spending. In other words, you're completely avoiding my point by arguing the semantics of me using a word in an informal, non-legalistic way.

So let's clear this up. If congress doesn't want to spend money, then it should not approve the spending. Congresspeople should not be approving spending then opposing the fundraising to enact that spending that they approved. That's just stupidity. I don't care if you're a conservative or not. Conservatives that oppose raising the debt ceiling shouldn't be approving spending that requires raising the debt ceiling. It's simple as that.
 
I was gona do some fancy math and see how big the platinum coin would have to be in order to be worth a $1T but it turns out that Platinum is worth slightly less than gold: Live Gold, Silver, Platinum, Palladium Quote Spot Price Chart - Kitco

Platinum, and even palladium, is the wrong material. I think the President is looking for a $1T coin made of Unobtainium.

I don't think the coin would need to be worth $1T in platinum value. It would simply be made of platinum and denominated at $1T.
 
I don't think the coin would need to be worth $1T in platinum value. It would simply be made of platinum and denominated at $1T.
I am pretty sure he was ignoring the seniorage value as a joke.
 
So then why not make it out of dog food?

I'm sure there's laws or rules as to what type of materials the Treasury can mint coinage out of. Of course if there aren't then you're correct in that the medium really doesn't matter. All that really matters is the denomination. Maybe wet dog food would work; they could press it then wait for it to dry. I don't think dry dog food would, though, unless they ground it up and added water or some kind of binding agent; too crumbly.

We could make it out of the ground up bones of Ted Stevens. :)
 
So then why not make it out of dog food?
The wording in the clause of the law in question, the one that allows the head of the Treasury to pick whatever denomination and design without requiring approval from Congress, names platinum explicitly as the material allowed. I do not have the link handy but it is in one of my posts earlier in the thread.
 
Arbitraily adding $1 trillion of make believe money to the Treasury is certainly more stupid than raising the debt ceiling. Default cannot and will not ever be an option. Bitting the bullet and raising the debt ceiling while balancing the budget takes place is the only way to go.
Has Obama ever shown interest in balancing a budget?

In fact they haven't even presented a budget and there appears no haste to do so. The last one Obama presented was voted down by everyone and he certainly didn't campaign on the importance of having a budget. In fact budgets would only get in the way of his cronyism spending, where billions are being pocketed.

My understand is that this is also contrary to the Constitution.

Obama budget defeated 99-0 in Senate - Washington Times
 
Its a pathetic liberal argument and a attempt by them of making the debt a
nonissue after their demi-god Obama screwed the pooch economically.

Since criticizing Obama's disasterous economic policies and instituting austerity is out of the question they first ( Blame Bush ) and then come up with some nonsensical approach to basically reset the debt but in a way where that money wont make it out into the economy.

They fail to recognize that our debt is currently issued by way of short term bonds and any increase in bond yields of just a few points could add a trillion to Obams's current massive defecit spending.

It could bankrupt us in an instant and a trillion dollar coin wouldn't change a thing.

We are heading towards a deflationary period that will be far more destructive than the inflation people keep forecasting.

There is already a massive amount of currency out there, its part of Obama's incompetence as his Fed Appointee loads up the banks with massive reserves and then pays them interest on those reserves.

Not one Lib here has offered up any sincere opinion that deals with our current situation.

Stack all the useless paper up you want but with out demand it's just going to sit there and earn massive amounts of interest for banks who are holding record reserves.

And NO our lack of demand or growing pool of unemployed workers isn't due to newly invented super robots that have the manufacturing capacity of 10 men ( like automation is a new concept) or "eeebil corporations " looking to work their employees to death and earn more or "the great Bush Recession" that was actually caused by a Democrat mandated Housing Bubble.

If a President STUPIDILY targets the private sector, the investors and the corporations with higher taxes and regulations its going to put the economy in a perpetual holding pattern.

If a President STUPIDLY forces upon a weak economy a over reaching health care law that increases the cost of premiums and forces Bussinesses to put off investments because of unkown cost its going to stifle the engine that drives our economy.

And the only ones who suffer are the middle class.

And some of you clowns voted for him.....twice.

A trillion dollar coin ? Put Obamas face on both sides. It will be a historical stamped synopsis of his failure of a legacy.
We agree on some of what you said (rather go with areas of agreement). I'd put it this way. Trillions of dollars have been pumped into the banking system to re-open the Wall Street casino. Money is trapped in the banking system for the reason you stated (interest on reserves) plus the demand for stuff just isn't there to justify investment. What I see occurring is eflation caused by unemployment and less stuff produced with simultaneous inflation in commodity prices caused by mal-investment created by Fed policy using only the monetary system to help the economy.

As for the trillion dollar coin, "unorthodox" methods in the face of the stupidity of not raising the debt ceiling is less disruptive.
 
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I don't think the coin would need to be worth $1T in platinum value. It would simply be made of platinum and denominated at $1T.

Yes, indeedy! That old fiat coinage. Money because we say it is. That is currently referred to as a "medium of exchange." It is always the same. As long as there is 0 % interest, there is manipulation. Undeniable manipulation. Will the end result be a much reduced usage of US Dollars.
 
We agree on some of what you said (rather go with ares of agreement). I put it this way trillions have been pumped into the banking system to re-open the Wall Street casino. Money is trapped in the banking system for the reason you stated (interest on reserves) plus the demand for stuff just isn't there to justify investment. There isn't a term for what I see occurring. Deflation caused by unemployment and less stuff produced with simultaneous inflation in commodity prices caused by mal-investment created by Fed policy using only the monetary system to help the economy.

As for the trillion dollar coin, "unorthodox" methods in the face of the stupidity of not raising the debt ceiling is less disruptive.

Perhaps it's best to stop all this talk about a "debt ceiling" if it will always be ignored and out of control spending continues. Why even bother with the pretense that spending and borrowing will ever be remedied? It just makes asses out of everyone because we know it will never end until they close the doors.

Politicians like to punt, just as they did on this 'fiscal cliff' issue, and leave it for someone else smarter than them to try and fix it after they leave office.
 
I don't see the purpose of the debt ceiling in any case. If congress passes a budget then that should imply they also approve of funding the spending for that budget. That's why the debt ceiling used to be a non-issue, anyways.
 
Has Obama ever shown interest in balancing a budget?

In fact they haven't even presented a budget and there appears no haste to do so. The last one Obama presented was voted down by everyone and he certainly didn't campaign on the importance of having a budget. In fact budgets would only get in the way of his cronyism spending, where billions are being pocketed.

My understand is that this is also contrary to the Constitution.

Obama budget defeated 99-0 in Senate - Washington Times

What that article leaves out is that it what the GOP brought to the floor wasn’t a ‘budget’ in the sense. It was only the top line numbers, roughly 2000 pages short of an actual Congressional budget (it was only about 50 pages long).

In short a trap, a gimmick, a GOP election campaign stunt to sell as a “historic rejection of a sitting President”, roughly speaking a shuck and jive that would make P.T. Barnum proud. But certainly one that they have gotten a LOT of mileage out of, sucking in rubes like you. *shrug*
 
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I don't see the purpose of the debt ceiling in any case. If congress passes a budget then that should imply they also approve of funding the spending for that budget. That's why the debt ceiling used to be a non-issue, anyways.
Damn you took my response!!!
 
I don't see the purpose of the debt ceiling in any case. If congress passes a budget then that should imply they also approve of funding the spending for that budget. That's why the debt ceiling used to be a non-issue, anyways.

Any Ideas as to why the demo's have not passed a budget in over 4 years now?
 
We agree on some of what you said
(rather go with areas of agreement).
I'd put it this way. Trillions of dollars have been pumped into the banking system to re-open the Wall Street casino. Money is trapped in the banking system for the reason you stated (interest on reserves) plus the demand for stuff just isn't there to justify investment. What I see occurring is eflation caused by unemployment and less stuff produced with simultaneous inflation in commodity prices caused by mal-investment created by Fed policy using only the monetary system to help the economy.

As for the trillion dollar coin, "unorthodox" methods in the face of the stupidity of not raising the debt ceiling is less disruptive.

I see no benefit to the "trillion dollar coin" concept and just see it as a attempt to mainstream the discussion of a ever increasing debt without any thought to the potential perils of being so leveraged up one good sell off or one credit downgrade could render this entire discussion pointless.

Imagine, were defeated by our own insatiable appetite for spending because we've come to expect the minimum from our politicians and 8 years of Obama has everyone convinced that Keynesian economics works in a global economy....when we buy are crap from China.

Hey is that a incoming thermal nuclear warhead ? Nope, the Chinese just dumped their bonds because we threatend to defend Taiwan and live up to our agreement to keep Taiwan Democratic.

Its stupid, stupid , stupid. Instead of trying to incentivize private sector growth Obama's sustained misery has everyone justifying making the US less secure.

Is the 3 oclock phone call Obama calling Wen Jia Boa or Putin when we hit 20T with yields climbing and uttering "execute order 66" ?

The order to dump all US bonds owned by the Chinese and the Ruskies will be "execute order 66" because I'm a huge Star Wars fan.

No one is putting up any effort to improve our economy, its supposed damage control from 2008 and thats BS.
 
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As for the trillion dollar coin, "unorthodox" methods in the face of the stupidity of not raising the debt ceiling is less disruptive.

Does anyone realize that a "trillion dollar platinum coin" would be about 39,000,000 pounds? :lamo On a serious note, are we to now believe that progressives are putting stock in non fiat currency?
 
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