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Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

Mr.Nick said:
you damn well know you implied the morning after pill was a right, now you're just trying to back-peddle on your position because it's illogical and nothing more than a selfish baseless expectation.
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no i did nothing of the sort, i never even came close lol
its something you are making up because you have no other logical, rational or factual path to take. you anger shows this lol

if you disagree please show me where i said the nonsense you are talking about

please read post 322 and you will see why you are factually 100% wrong :shrug:
 
digsbe said:
Comparing a person's belief that birth control is wrong and not wanting to provide a benefit for it is hardly comparable with the practices of the taliban :roll: Please tell me what religious beliefs are being forced on someone when the owner of their own private company decides that they don't want to run their business in a way that conflicts with their beliefs. They can't stop someone from getting birth control or preventing the individual from purchasing their own insurance plan that covers what they want, they are just choosing not to provide benefits that conflict with their beliefs.
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Forcing religious beliefs on other is something the Taliban has done for years. This is what the right has been trying to do for the last 30 years. This country was not founded on any paticular religion. Therefore Hobby Lobby is a for profit company not a religious organization so they have no say what so ever. However, once they start pressing religion on their workers that is a problem thus the fine.

How Religious Bullies Have Recently Sought to Impose Their Views on Others, in Pakistan and Here in the U.S. | Marci A. Hamilton | Verdict | Legal Analysis and Commentary from Justia
 
TaraAnne said:
Forcing religious beliefs on other is something the Taliban has done for years. This is what the right has been trying to do for the last 30 years. This country was not founded on any paticular religion. Therefore Hobby Lobby is a for profit company not a religious organization so they have no say what so ever. However, once they start pressing religion on their workers that is a problem thus the fine.

How Religious Bullies Have Recently Sought to Impose Their Views on Others, in Pakistan and Here in the U.S. | Marci A. Hamilton | Verdict | Legal Analysis and Commentary from Justia
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The United States is now as bad as Pakistan, huh?

The education system in the United States has failed the country, and all the decades of good that went before it.

A state can recover from many wounds, but not from an ignorant populace.
 
Grant said:
The United States is now as bad as Pakistan, huh?

The education system in the United States has failed the country, and all the decades of good that went before it.

A state can recover from many wounds, but not from an ignorant populace.
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I was just pointing out that the Talibant and the religious right have alot in common. The great thing is the religious right will never take over this country! That is a fact. I see Hobby Lobby pushing a religous issue when they have no right to. However, just like Westboro Baptist they can petition to become a religious organization and then they can make their case if it is granted. Plus they will be tax exempt as well. However, this country was founded on freedom of religion. No employer can force that belief on any employee period.
 
What religious belief does Hobby Lobby "force" on its employee's?
 
j-mac said:
What religious belief does Hobby Lobby "force" on its employee's?
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Not so much on the employees, but they are pretending that because they believe in an imaginary friend in the sky, they get to opt out of rules that everyone else has to follow.
 
Cephus said:
Not so much on the employees, but they are pretending that because they believe in an imaginary friend in the sky, they get to opt out of rules that everyone else has to follow.
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yeah i never understood how people can falsely convince themselves that a company doesnt have to play by the rules everyone else does based on religion.

once you leave the religious realm you play by public rules.
 
Objective-J said:
seems you dont understand English at all, i never said healthcare is a right by any means what so ever. Im still waiting for you to point this out as the statment is a 100% lie
Ill show you how broken your logic is

if i own a business, you are my employee and you were black, gay, fat, old, a woman etc and i didnt let you use the front door to my business or go to the company party because i thought being black, gay, fat, old etc was wrong based on my religious beliefs did i violate your rights?

the answer is yes i did

now the follow up question, using YOUR wrong/broken logic, how did i violate your rights if going to a party or using a front door isnt a right?

see how dumb, dishonest and broken that logic is?

its ok, you were wrong, mistakes happened, thanks for playing
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No, see the fact is that you implied that it was a right, it was shown to you more than 3 separate times. The flaw here in logic is in your own false analogy. You set up something covered under the Civil rights Act, in the equal treatment of individuals in this country. Using the ACA to bully companies into providing a product, in this case insurance is bad enough, but then telling them that they must include within that coverage something that clearly is not a financial hardship to obtain separate of insurance coverage, IMHO, to poke a stick in the side of people of faith in this country is pure inflammatory. And it is as big a game as you saying that you didn't say something you clearly in black and white did....Ah well....I am not naive enough to believe that this conversation would be an honest one. I mean if you think about it, it can't be, because if it was, the conclusion about what our government is doing right now would be repugnant.
 
TaraAnne said:
I was just pointing out that the Talibant and the religious right have alot in common
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They have nothing in common. Nada. Zip. It seems you know little of either..
The great thing is the religious right will never take over this country! That is a fact. I see Hobby Lobby pushing a religous issue when they have no right to.
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They are not pushing a religious issue, the government is. Prior to the government getting involved Hobby Lobby and its employees were quite happy.

However, just like Westboro Baptist they can petition to become a religious organization and then they can make their case if it is granted. Plus they will be tax exempt as well. However, this country was founded on freedom of religion. No employer can force that belief on any employee period.
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Hobby Lobby is not forcing their beliefs on anyone. Where is their freedom of religion?
 
TaraAnne said:
These abortion-causing drugs go against our faith," said David Green, founder and chief executive officer of Hobby Lobby Stores Inc, in a call with reporters. "We simply cannot abandon our religious beliefs to comply with this mandate."

Hobby Lobby sues government over healthcare mandate | Reuters

Any other question j-mac stupid or otherwise?
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But it was not a stupid question and it is not an example of them forcing their religious views on anyone. If the employees and Hobby Lobby want a policy that covers things that the owner of Hobby Lobby finds offensive and chooses not to cover, they are free to find other employment.
 
This is an interesting case.

As usual, covering the controversy in religion is likely to yield an insignificant judgment by the SCOTUS.

But if we can strip religious allusions from the matter, we're left with what the matter simply boils down to: the owners are objecting to being in any way an accomplice to kiling living prenatal humans.

The owners are basically saying that if they are forced to provide coverage that includes the morning-after pill, a pill that kills newly conceived living humans, they will then be an accomplice to abortion on demand (abortion by chemical process), abortion on demand which, by accurate appeal to term, includes unjustified homicide.

It may be against the religion of the owners to commit, in any associated way, unjustified homicide.

This case will also test how far our SCOTUS judges have come in dealing with harsh realities associated with abortion, such as the bigotry of ageism (http://www.debatepolitics.com/abortion/130363-pro-choice-bigotry-ageism.html#post1060675136).

But if the tack from either side is to emphasize religion, that either the owners are forcing their religion on others or that the owners are having their religious rights infringed, the SCOTUS will then avoid the heart of the matter: that abortion kills living humans.

It will be interesting to see which presentations the legal counsels and jurists make.
 
Grant said:
Hobby Lobby is not forcing their beliefs on anyone. Where is their freedom of religion?
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Hobby Lobby is a company. It has no freedom of religion because it has no religion. It's owners might, but they don't get to push their own personal religious biases on anyone through their company. If they don't want to personally use contraceptives, they're more than welcome to refrain from doing so.
 
Objective-J said:
yeah i never understood how people can falsely convince themselves that a company doesnt have to play by the rules everyone else does based on religion.

once you leave the religious realm you play by public rules.
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First of all, the company is challenging the validity of the rules. Hopefully you understand that just because something is the law does not mean that it should be the law or is itself a just law. Secondly, religious freedom is not something that can only be practiced in ones closet. The Constitution makes no distinction between public and private freedom of conscience any more than it does freedom of speech or freedom of the press.
 
danarhea said:
I have 2 statements to make here:

1) Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom to impose your religious views on others. Your freedom of religion stops where my own freedom of religion begins.

2) If Hobby Lobby wants to pay 1.3 million in fines per day, then by all means let them. It will help reduce our deficit a tiny bit. Thank you, Hobby Lobby, for volunteering to pay a little more.

Article is here.
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Hah! They're full of **** you know - they oppose bc being covered but HATE when their employees get knocked up - because I swear - I've been pregnant 4 times but never felt so much hate as I did from Hob Lob . . . and I loved working there, too.

AND they hire homosexuals left and right - which I DO support - but you know, if they want to beat the moral drum . . . they need to whack that mother****er. Bull****.

They need to correct their hypocrisy they have flowing like a river.
 
j-mac said:
1.)No, see the fact is that you implied that it was a right, it was shown to you more than 3 separate times.

2.)The flaw here in logic is in your own false analogy. You set up something covered under the Civil rights Act, in the equal treatment of individuals in this country. Using the ACA to bully companies into providing a product, in this case insurance is bad enough, but then telling them that they must include within that coverage something that clearly is not a financial hardship to obtain separate of insurance coverage, IMHO, to poke a stick in the side of people of faith in this country is pure inflammatory. And it is as big a game as you saying that you didn't say something you clearly in black and white did....Ah well....I am not naive enough to believe that this conversation would be an honest one. I mean if you think about it, it can't be, because if it was, the conclusion about what our government is doing right now would be repugnant.
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1.)nope you just lied again that is not a fact by any means what so ever, if you disagree id LOVE for you to factually prove otherwise LMAO
no matter how much you cry about it the fact is i never did that at all by any means thats what you WRONGLY and ILLOGICAL assumed and you were wrong :shrug:

2.) no flaw at all because im talking about rights infringement and the courts agree with me and not you :shrug:

please continue to make stuff up though its pretty funny watching you spin, just man up, show some integrity and admit you misspoke and assumed wrong
 
Cephus said:
Hobby Lobby is a company. It has no freedom of religion because it has no religion. It's owners might, but they don't get to push their own personal religious biases on anyone through their company. If they don't want to personally use contraceptives, they're more than welcome to refrain from doing so.
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Then by what right does a company get to push its own personal biases as to behavior, wardrobe and speech or ethics?
 
Fletch said:
Then by what right does a company get to push its own personal biases as to behavior, wardrobe and speech or ethics?
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They are not violating the law in regard to any of those things, hopefully.
 
Fletch said:
1.)First of all, the company is challenging the validity of the rules. 2.) Hopefully you understand that just because something is the law does not mean that it should be the law or is itself a just law. 3.)Secondly, religious freedom is not something that can only be practiced in ones closet.
3.)The Constitution makes no distinction between public and private freedom of conscience any more than it does freedom of speech or freedom of the press.
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1.) im fine with anybody trying to challenge anything
2.) yep and i never implied otherwise
3.) i agree but it most certainly has its limits and thats a fact. for example can St. Lukes hospital deny visitation of my wife if we werent married by the churches religion? of course not because their religion is meaningless and they cant use it to discriminate outside the religious realm.
4.) actually by default it factually does because your rights end when you try to infringe on mine, see the example above

The solution is simply if you cant play by public rules like everyone else dont get involved in the public realm.
 
Cephus said:
They shouldn't be exempt either. A law is a law. It covers everyone or no one.
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Are you really using the Constitution to justify a law that violates the Constitution by mandating that a private person/business either purchase a "private" good/service or pay a huge fine (tax?) to the gov't. ? :doh
 
Cephus said:
Hobby Lobby is a company. It has no freedom of religion because it has no religion. It's owners might, but they don't get to push their own personal religious biases on anyone through their company. If they don't want to personally use contraceptives, they're more than welcome to refrain from doing so.
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A company or corporation is a legal concept but one which individuals often use. They have a say in how that company is managed, who is hired and when, and also plan for the future, etc. This is all done by people.

If the owners of the company do not wish to get involved in a government program, if it offends them, they should have the freedom to opt out, as many companies have already done with Obamacare. Of course the government can ignore the rights of the owners of the company, as they appear to be willing to do in this HL case, but it sets an awful precedent on the limits of freedom people might have.

The government is also choosing who has to obey the law and who can ignore it. This is being done out in the open, for everyone to see, yet no one seems to raise any fuss at all. Instead their venom is directed against those who will dare challenge the government, and in the America today that is not a popular thing to do. In fact it can become quite risky.
 
Cephus said:
They are not violating the law in regard to any of those things, hopefully.
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But what makes a law just? The fact that it exists? Or is there ome other standard?
 
Cephus said:
They shouldn't be exempt either. A law is a law. It covers everyone or no one.
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They shouldn't be exempt perhaps, but they are.

Why not go after the government to be sure that all companies follow the law, if you feel that strongly about justice and rights. Shouldn't that be where your complaints are directed?
 
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