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Unionized dock workers threaten to strike at 15 ports

Anyone can want more power too, and everyone does. Do you know a single entity in the entire world who dreams of being less powerful?

Exactly. So why should we pretend unions are above the corporations they are bargaining with?
 
And it happens all the time, despite what the law says. Indeed, the law often looks the other way even when their nose is rubbed in it. Why do you suppose that is?



It's not so true in the U.S. anymore, thanks to organized labor, although such exploitation continues in developing countries with shameless abandon, and is increasing every year with the continuing exploitation of illegal immigrants. Meanwhile, neither the U.S. government nor the U.N. do much about it.

1. Of course. But two wrongs don't make a right. We should put an end to both practices.
2. That "exploitation" has also brought billions of people out of poverty.
 
Because unlike conservatives, we don't want to be dominated by a bunch of Monopoly Guy weirdos, and value real freedom and independence. In short, we're Americans and you're not.

If you value real freedom, then why am I not allowed to say I don't want to join your silly union.
 
There is nothing wrong with forming a picket line. Ever hear of the "Right to Assembly"?

There is something wrong with being forced to not show up because the union says so.

The Right to Assembly must also be complimented with a right to not participate in the assembly

Lets put it another way. The Second Amendment says that you have the right to bear arms. Should every single citizen in the U.S. be forced to own a firearm? If you answered no, then why should every single worker be forced to join a union?
 
Perhaps your mother should join a nurse's union. These are not enormous salaries. In fact, I'd say, on the low end, they're an outright pittance.

Ever do any dock work? It's not child's play.

What she should've done was get her masters, then she'd be making 6 figures. Which is something she'll probably go back and do in the next few years. I'm not complaining on behalf of my mother, she has an very high living standard taking everything into account. My point was that they are already making salaries comparable to good professional degrees, fighting for a larger salary just makes them look stupid.
 
Sigh, unsupported opinion is unsupported.

Unsupported opinion? This is common knowledge to anyone with a pulse. If you do not believe me trying googling "collusion charges." You'll get all the examples you want.

Ive been saying for years that illegal immigration causes false wage depreciation. The primary opposition to illegal immigration is from the right. The better support we have to prevent illegal employment, the better.

The right pretends to care about illegal immigration as a ruse to garnering votes in border states. Their fat cat constituents are making far too much money exploiting undocumented workers for GOP leaders to really be interested in curtailing it.

As for overseas labor, no easy answers. Increased standard of living in developing countries is the only answer but its a long way from being easy to achieve.

Eventually, labor in developing countries will organize. Indeed, it is already happening. However, by the time labor unions are firmly established there, they will be dissolved over here and the whole damn cycle of exploitation will have come round full circle.
 
and that is where - and why - the union is able to gain leverage in these negotiations
otherwise the employer could simply hire scabs as the current employees initiate a strike

Which is perfectly fine. Hiring new workers comes at a cost to businesses, so it becomes a trade off over losing short term productivity and having to pay resources to retrain new workers or giving the unions what they ask for.
 
Exactly. So why should we pretend unions are above the corporations they are bargaining with?

They are not necessarily "above" the companies they bargain with, nor are they "below" them. They are two entities in a symbiotic relationship, but with separate agendas as far as issue of employee wages, benefits, etc. are concerned.
 
What she should've done was get her masters, then she'd be making 6 figures. Which is something she'll probably go back and do in the next few years. I'm not complaining on behalf of my mother, she has an very high living standard taking everything into account. My point was that they are already making salaries comparable to good professional degrees, fighting for a larger salary just makes them look stupid.

The average longshoremen is NOT making the salaries presented in the OP propaganda. I already provided a link to what longshoremen really make.
 
The average longshoremen is NOT making the salaries presented in the OP propaganda. I already provided a link to what longshoremen really make.

EHow is not the definitive answer. If I'm not mistaken, that's the link you used. The data from EHow came from Simply Hired. Neither is appropriately verified.

I would trust the OP's link more than EHow's because if that information were patently untrue (as reported by the US Maritime Alliance representing the shipping lines), the union -- International Longshoremen's Association -- would have screamed bloody murder at that statistic. And they did not.
 
There is something wrong with being forced to not show up because the union says so.

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. You are either with the union or you are a scab. Understand that solidarity is what makes a union a union.

The Right to Assembly must also be complimented with a right to not participate in the assembly

Again, no one is forced to walk a picket line. The members you see walking a picket line are there because they are committed to the union.
 
I would trust the OP's link more than EHow's because if that information were patently untrue (as reported by the US Maritime Alliance representing the shipping lines), the union -- International Longshoremen's Association -- would have screamed bloody murder at that statistic. And they did not.

I don't know about "screaming bloody murder" but the ILA certainly objected to the disinformation submitted by the USMX to the media:


"No "Breakdown" in Support For ILA Against USMX; Labor Groups From Across the Globe Pledge Support

08/24/2012



USMX's tactic of presenting averages for wages and benefits without explaining how these averages were derived are meant to inflame the general public who has no knowledge of the longshore industry. USMX uses this incomplete picture to distort the wage and benefits structure. USMX fails to note that longshore labor cost amounts to between 3% and 4% of the shipper's total cost. Unlike other hourly workers who work a 40-hour workweek, most longshore workers make themselves available for work on a daily basis. Early on, the ILA negotiated a guarantee of a day's pay. Otherwise, the employer had no obligation to pay if a vessel did not arrive on schedule.

The coast wide average of wages and benefits of $124,138 focuses only on containerized cargo where wages and benefits are substantially higher than the wages and benefits paid for break-bulk cargo which is handled piece by piece because fewer workers are used on containerized cargo. Including the wages and benefits of those longshore workers who work break-bulk cargo would result in a substantially lower average since this cargo is handled at lower wage and benefit levels. Likewise, the average hourly rate of $50 apparently includes straight time and overtime hours and once again incudes only containerized cargo. It should be noted parenthetically that the health care benefits of ILA workers are those that all Americans will enjoy when the Affordable Care Act is fully implemented.

Finally, with respect to the port of New York and New Jersey, USMX does not mention that these annual wages do not include substantial amounts of overtime pay. USMX also does not mention that management representatives have testified at administrative hearings that management prefers to keep one employee on overtime rather than two workers on straight time thereby resulting in these inflated annual wages.

USMX should stop the inflammatory rhetoric and return to the bargaining table with realistic demands. USMX should recognize that it cannot change overnight benefits that were achieved over many years of collective bargaining."


International Longshoremen's Association


Next time, do the research.
 
Next time, do the research.

Hilariously from a guy who used EHow as a source.

You will notice, I trust, that nowhere in your posted quote did the union deny the $124K...why didn't they post their own number instead of Mickey Mousing around?
 
Hilariously from a guy who used EHow as a source.

You will notice, I trust, that nowhere in your posted quote did the union deny the $124K...why didn't they post their own number instead of Mickey Mousing around?

Because that's what 'wise guys' always do...Until they beat you down or kill you...this is who Sig, and others want you to believe...

July 8, 2005: Dept of Justice files civil RICO suit against international ILA calling for removal of corrupt officers and for a federal monitorship over the international to end the grip of organized crime.

Battling corruption in the ILA: a partial chronology
 
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. You are either with the union or you are a scab. Understand that solidarity is what makes a union a union.



Again, no one is forced to walk a picket line. The members you see walking a picket line are there because they are committed to the union.

Uh? I know plenty of people who were not allowed to show up to work because the union said they were not allowed to while on the union is on strike.

Regardless, I am in favor of RTW laws.
 
Unsupported opinion? This is common knowledge to anyone with a pulse. If you do not believe me trying googling "collusion charges." You'll get all the examples you want.



The right pretends to care about illegal immigration as a ruse to garnering votes in border states. Their fat cat constituents are making far too much money exploiting undocumented workers for GOP leaders to really be interested in curtailing it.



Eventually, labor in developing countries will organize. Indeed, it is already happening. However, by the time labor unions are firmly established there, they will be dissolved over here and the whole damn cycle of exploitation will have come round full circle.

Unsupported because if it can be supported and proven ITS ILLEGAL. I believe I mentioned that to some degree.

Establishment GOP?, yes. Real conservatives?, no. Democrats? They dont just believe in it, they are counting on it.

Yeah, I think you are missing the legal framework we have in place to prevent the full circle. Again you are rambling and drawing conlcusions from thin air.
 
Uh? I know plenty of people who were not allowed to show up to work because the union said they were not allowed to while on the union is on strike.

Regardless, I am in favor of RTW laws.

Yeah, I work for a company now that mostly is non union, but has a couple of terminals that are union and I remember when one went on strike up north, a couple of us went up there to fill in on the routes while they struck. We were threatened, had rocks thrown at our trucks, had the trucks beat with bats, and 2x4's, tires slashed, etc. General mob thug like behavior. The company ended up moving the business to a close by non union terminal, and closing the union one. So yeah, they were really effective.
 
Yeah, I work for a company now that mostly is non union, but has a couple of terminals that are union and I remember when one went on strike up north, a couple of us went up there to fill in on the routes while they struck. We were threatened, had rocks thrown at our trucks, had the trucks beat with bats, and 2x4's, tires slashed, etc. General mob thug like behavior. The company ended up moving the business to a close by non union terminal, and closing the union one. So yeah, they were really effective.

My next door neighbor worked for a Teamsters' company years ago. When they struck, he couldn't afford to strike, so he kept driving...as did many others in the company. The ones who drove had Pinkerton guards 24/7 at their homes. Even with that, his picture window in the living room was replaced twice.

I have family in coal-country Kentucky. When the coal truck drivers struck, anyone who drove was a target. Cut brake lines... trucks hijacked...drivers beaten...shot to death...run off mountain roads. It was brutal.
 
My next door neighbor worked for a Teamsters' company years ago. When they struck, he couldn't afford to strike, so he kept driving...as did many others in the company. The ones who drove had Pinkerton guards 24/7 at their homes. Even with that, his picture window in the living room was replaced twice.

I have family in coal-country Kentucky. When the coal truck drivers struck, anyone who drove was a target. Cut brake lines... trucks hijacked...drivers beaten...shot to death...run off mountain roads. It was brutal.

Yup. There are none so quick to violence as those imbued with a sense of entitlement.


Hey, isn't this the same union that was involved in that whole destruction of private property and hostage-taking incident?
 
My next door neighbor worked for a Teamsters' company years ago. When they struck, he couldn't afford to strike, so he kept driving...as did many others in the company. The ones who drove had Pinkerton guards 24/7 at their homes. Even with that, his picture window in the living room was replaced twice.

I have family in coal-country Kentucky. When the coal truck drivers struck, anyone who drove was a target. Cut brake lines... trucks hijacked...drivers beaten...shot to death...run off mountain roads. It was brutal.


Yeah, it really is sad. These people I think watched Goodfellas, or the Soprano's far too often.
 
Yeah, it really is sad. These people I think watched Goodfellas, or the Soprano's far too often.

Actually, sadly I think it's the other way around. Goodfellas and Sopranos were scripted based on real world union behavior.
 
Absolutely! Considering that say 70% of their total package is salary, based on a 40 hr work week, (something those of us actually working hard for a decent living don't make) are making about $42. per hour. Yet to them, that isn't enough.

When are corporate profits enough?
 
The two are apples and oranges.

didn't you know, employees who expect increased wages for their labors are unreasonable

business owners who enhance their profits by decreasing the their cost of labor are capitalists
 
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