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Harry Reid: "We're going over the cliff"

Fenton said:
You dont make a " deal " thats going to make things worse.

Removing the debt limt and no reforms on entitlments with tax increases ?

The Republicans should walk away.
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So your solution is to do nothing and let us go over the cliff then blame it on Obama?
 
Wiseone said:
Ya why should they care about suffering, chronic unemployment, and dependence as long as its someone else's fault. Now that's a party I can vote for!

Everyone needs to sit down, ****ing get over themselves, and make a deal happen.
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Oh come on now....The repubs have one half of one third of the government. Obama has been playing a very cynical game of fomenting a civil war within the republican party....Congradulations Mr. President, you are succeeding....Even Nero would be proud.
 
j-mac said:
Oh come on now....The repubs have one half of one third of the government. Obama has been playing a very cynical game of fomenting a civil war within the republican party....Congradulations Mr. President, you are succeeding....Even Nero would be proud.
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A half of a third is 1/6th. Does the government have 6 branches, how did you do that math? Do you mean SCOTUS, POTUS, Senate, House and I don't know what else would follow that.
 
Boo Radley said:
Do try hard to get what I'm actually saying. I only want honesty. There may be reason to lose those jobs. But honesty demands we admit they will be lost.
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Of course jobs will be lost, that is what budgets are about; we the sheeple cannot have over $1.2 trillion more federal spending than we the sheeple are willing to pay taxes to support, year in and year out. The DC morons, congress critters and president alike, must learn that simple fact.
 
Wiseone said:
A half of a third is 1/6th. Does the government have 6 branches, how did you do that math? Do you mean SCOTUS, POTUS, Senate, House and I don't know what else would follow that.
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My bad, Allow me to rephrase as if you didn't know what I was saying...The republican's only hold half of the house. Obama, and Reid have the Presidency, and the Senate...I think blaming it on republicans if rather silly.
 
Wiseone said:
A half of a third is 1/6th. Does the government have 6 branches, how did you do that math? Do you mean SCOTUS, POTUS, Senate, House and I don't know what else would follow that.
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I think he meant they control the house, which is half of the legislative branch, which is 1/3rd of the fed.
 
j-mac said:
My bad, Allow me to rephrase as if you didn't know what I was saying...The republican's only hold half of the house. Obama, and Reid have the Presidency, and the Senate...I think blaming it on republicans if rather silly.
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I'm not blaming it on anyone, or rather if the problem isn't solved I'm going to blame it on everyone.

tessaesque said:
I think he meant they control the house, which is half of the legislative branch, which is 1/3rd of the fed.
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Ah now that makes sense.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Of course jobs will be lost, that is what budgets are about; we the sheeple cannot have over $1.2 trillion more federal spending than we the sheeple are willing to pay taxes to support, year in and year out. The DC morons, congress critters and president alike, must learn that simple fact.
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Any solution will require tax increases and cuts, but being honest about the cost is necessary
 
Boo Radley said:
Any solution will require tax increases and cuts, but being honest about the cost is necessary
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Unfortunately, being honest about the cost keeps getting drowned out by rhetoric. The kind of cuts that need to be made are not going to be accepted, willingly, by voters. Not as long as opposition to these cuts is a winning election strategy, that is.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Unfortunately, being honest about the cost keeps getting drowned out by rhetoric. The kind of cuts that need to be made are not going to be accepted, willingly, by voters. Not as long as opposition to these cuts is a winning election strategy, that is.
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Oh, both sides lie as an election strategy. We have to stop pretending otherwise. We also have to stop demonizing the poor and working people and pretending the wealthy are poor saps. Voters have a few disconnects, that's true. But pretending one liar is not a lair doesn't help much.
 
MaggieD said:
Both parties are at equal fault. There was a time in politics that the leaders of both houses -- and the minority leaders -- would put six minions in a room and say, "Don't come out of the damned door until you've found a compromise."

Now? It's all about the blame game. Clowns, every last one of them.
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Let's not forget that it was the American people who elected these 'clowns'.

It's been said that people get the government they deserve, and if the people didn't know this was coming they have only themselves to blame.
 
Grant said:
Let's not forget that it was the American people who elected these 'clowns'.

It's been said that people get the government they deserve, and if the people didn't know this was coming they have only themselves to blame.
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Like or not, there really was no better alternative. Our problem is not one party over the other.
 
Boo Radley said:
Any solution will require tax increases and cuts, but being honest about the cost is necessary
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Well, not exactly...Remember when Obama thought he was so slick about calling it 'revenue'? That can be achieved by closing loopholes, such as the State tax credit. But No, Obama doesn't really care about the revenue generated by this lie of his, it is about attacking success, and dividing republicans, as well as capitalism itself. And interesting that you say spending cuts, tell me, what 'cuts' has Obama put forth?
 
Boo Radley said:
Oh, both sides lie as an election strategy. We have to stop pretending otherwise. We also have to stop demonizing the poor and working people and pretending the wealthy are poor saps. Voters have a few disconnects, that's true. But pretending one liar is not a lair doesn't help much.
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I wasn't clear in my last post. By "cuts" I also meant tax reform but I failed to state it that way.

Cuts aren't the only thing that needs to happen, we need real tax reform, too but that one also seems to get drowned out. Real reform means that the "effective" rate that the wealthy pay will go up considerably. It's an easy argument to make that income tax rates are too high when the issue can be so easily manipulated by using top rate numbers like 39.5% and then tap dancing around the fact that no one pays anywhere near that amount because of the way our tax laws are structured. You start telling the truly rich that their effective rate is going up 5% or so and those campaign funds start drying up in a hurry.

I'm starting to think this whole fiscal cliff fiasco may well be the only way anything meaningful will ever get done.
 
j-mac said:
Well, not exactly...Remember when Obama thought he was so slick about calling it 'revenue'? That can be achieved by closing loopholes, such as the State tax credit. But No, Obama doesn't really care about the revenue generated by this lie of his, it is about attacking success, and dividing republicans, as well as capitalism itself. And interesting that you say spending cuts, tell me, what 'cuts' has Obama put forth?
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I'm not praising Obama here. I blame both parties. Sure, I can link earlier proposals and we can play that game. Kind of senseless though. Neither party has been serious yet.
 
iliveonramen said:
Very weird way of looking at it. Nobody votes on his budget because it won't pass the House. The only budget the House has passed is a budget that would never pass the Senate or be signed by the President. It's a case of two groups yelling past each other. I'm actually being generous here in my view.
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This is the guy the American people recently voted for. Obama budget defeated 99-0 in Senate - Washington Times
 
Jack Fabulous said:
I wasn't clear in my last post. By "cuts" I also meant tax reform but I failed to state it that way.

Cuts aren't the only thing that needs to happen, we need real tax reform, too but that one also seems to get drowned out. Real reform means that the "effective" rate that the wealthy pay will go up considerably. It's an easy argument to make that income tax rates are too high when the issue can be so easily manipulated by using top rate numbers like 39.5% and then tap dancing around the fact that no one pays anywhere near that amount because of the way our tax laws are structured. You start telling the truly rich that their effective rate is going up 5% or so and those campaign funds start drying up in a hurry.

I'm starting to think this whole fiscal cliff fiasco may well be the only way anything meaningful will ever get done.
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I have no objection to eliminating breaks that dance around paying their actual rate.
 
Boo Radley said:
I'm not praising Obama here. I blame both parties. Sure, I can link earlier proposals and we can play that game. Kind of senseless though. Neither party has been serious yet.
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Why should they be serious? Can you think of a reason why, if the American people themselves are not serious?

Why would the people of Nevada, for example, vote for a guy like Harry Reid? And why would they vote for anyone who has no experience whatsoever?

The fault lies with the American people, not their political representatives..
 
Boo Radley said:
I'm not praising Obama here. I blame both parties. Sure, I can link earlier proposals and we can play that game. Kind of senseless though. Neither party has been serious yet.
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Yeah, you have a point there...Earlier proposals really have nothing to do with it. Heck, just a week ago all the chatter was how Obama was moving the goal post to $400K. Demo's had a fit, and republicans ignored it, then after the stupid Plan B debacle, Obama quickly went back to $250K....That has always been Obama's golden ring...Ever since he was elected.

Then the WH came up with this sequester Bull, and repubs bit like a flounder in spring. Now, that is where Obama is headed, always has been. He will move the goal whenever any offer gets close so that we do go over....And all to play his little political game, and divide repubs. Congrats demo's, you made sure we elected a 7th grader.
 
Grant said:
Why should they be serious? Can you think of a reason why, if the American people themselves are not serious?

Why would the people of Nevada, for example, vote for a guy like Harry Reid? And why would they vote for anyone who has no experience whatsoever?

The fault lies with the American people, not their political representatives..
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I think the people are more serious than given credit. However, the partisan silliness just doesn't play as well as some hope. Both ways. They want a serious solution without too much pain bought upon the bottom. I think they would respond favorably to an honest discussion but doubt we can have one today.
 
j-mac said:
Yeah, you have a point there...Earlier proposals really have nothing to do with it. Heck, just a week ago all the chatter was how Obama was moving the goal post to $400K. Demo's had a fit, and republicans ignored it, then after the stupid Plan B debacle, Obama quickly went back to $250K....That has always been Obama's golden ring...Ever since he was elected.

Then the WH came up with this sequester Bull, and repubs bit like a flounder in spring. Now, that is where Obama is headed, always has been. He will move the goal whenever any offer gets close so that we do go over....And all to play his little political game, and divide repubs. Congrats demo's, you made sure we elected a 7th grader.
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He's it king. He needs support as much as other president. You're still being far too partisan here.
 
Boo Radley said:
He's it king.
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Ok, before I start openly laughing at this, would you care to clarify?

He needs support as much as other president. You're still being far too partisan here.
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Support? Support? FOR WHAT? Playing partisan games while people like me get squeezed? P-U-H-L-E-E-Z-E!!!!!!!
 
Jack Fabulous said:
I swear this is starting to read exactly like the last chapter of "1984".

Reid says fiscal cliff dive likely; blasts Boehner for lacking leadership | The Ticket - Yahoo! News

"Boehner will be to blame “if we go over the cliff, and it looks like that’s where we’re headed,” Reid insisted as the Senate returned to work for a post-Christmas session focused on disaster relief for Sandy victims and renewing key government surveillance powers."


How much does anyone want to bet that a "miraculous last minute deal" will be struck that avoids the cliff yet does absolutely nothing to address the problem? All just another well played episode of "Kick the Can", I'm afraid...
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Has Reid ever passed a bill of any kind since he's been majority leader? I forget, someone refresh my memory. I think he declared the war was lost once, but other then that I don't think he's accomplished a lick.
 
Boo Radley said:
I think the people are more serious than given credit. However, the partisan silliness just doesn't play as well as some hope. Both ways. They want a serious solution without too much pain bought upon the bottom. I think they would respond favorably to an honest discussion but doubt we can have one today.
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The American people just had an election where all the silliness was there to see. The issues, like dogs on rooftops, were there for all to see.

Partisan silliness wouldn't play well unless the people accepted it and fell for it. All we need do is look back on these threads during the electoral process and see what many Americans were actually saying and, apparently, believing,
 
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